Rise of the Sheep! JocMeister(A) vs. Obvert(J)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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Crackaces
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RE: 1945!

Post by Crackaces »

quote:
ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

" ...Oh well they will resemble zombies in their ability to fight when they do come back....at a cost:)! ... "


I am very curious to follow the effect of strat bombing on supplies within the home islands and the rebuilding of units. I am thinking that forces are going to intersect producing a supply crises of sorts ...




I´m note sure I understand what you mean by supply crises? Care to explain to a dimwit?

It is my understanding that Strat bombing consumes supplies along with doing damage. I do know that rebuilding new IJ ID's takes supply. It has been my limited experience that the gathering of units needing supplies that consume supplies like units taking on reinforcements -- produce a positive feedback of sorts and start drawing more supplies to that location. For example, I have rebuilt Commonwealth units in Karachi in my games not realizing that supplies started to gather there rather than permeate elsewhere needed ...


I am proposing that suddenly buying out multiple ID's destroyed in the huge IJ Malay stack and setting replacements on... is going to create a not so subtle supply draw on Tokyo most likely,[unless they move elsewhere] and that combined with strat bombing I might suggest is going to create some odd supply redistribution effects on the home islands. Like supplies moving toward Tokyo away from the places that are currently loading/storing supplies. (Multiple new units needing supplies will start that part of the algorithm up) Now I also postulate that the IJ has to move supplies to its perimeter in order to support fighting right now in PI, Southeast Asia, and China .. with supplies also going out to places like Iwo Jima ...

I might suspect that that will create a crisis where less supplies are in the periphery and a bunch are gathered at Tokyo where you are Strat bombing consuming supplies ... to me after a few turns it would be a crisis of sorts .. [8D]
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JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:
ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

" ...Oh well they will resemble zombies in their ability to fight when they do come back....at a cost:)! ... "


I am very curious to follow the effect of strat bombing on supplies within the home islands and the rebuilding of units. I am thinking that forces are going to intersect producing a supply crises of sorts ...




I´m note sure I understand what you mean by supply crises? Care to explain to a dimwit?

It is my understanding that Strat bombing consumes supplies along with doing damage. I do know that rebuilding new IJ ID's takes supply. It has been my limited experience that the gathering of units needing supplies that consume supplies like units taking on reinforcements -- produce a positive feedback of sorts and start drawing more supplies to that location. For example, I have rebuilt Commonwealth units in Karachi in my games not realizing that supplies started to gather there rather than permeate elsewhere needed ...


I am proposing that suddenly buying out multiple ID's destroyed in the huge IJ Malay stack and setting replacements on... is going to create a not so subtle supply draw on Tokyo most likely,[unless they move elsewhere] and that combined with strat bombing I might suggest is going to create some odd supply redistribution effects on the home islands. Like supplies moving toward Tokyo away from the places that are currently loading/storing supplies. (Multiple new units needing supplies will start that part of the algorithm up) Now I also postulate that the IJ has to move supplies to its perimeter in order to support fighting right now in PI, Southeast Asia, and China .. with supplies also going out to places like Iwo Jima ...

I might suspect that that will create a crisis where less supplies are in the periphery and a bunch are gathered at Tokyo where you are Strat bombing consuming supplies ... to me after a few turns it would be a crisis of sorts .. [8D]

Ah, I see! [:)] Kind of like how the allies have it in China. If you turn on replacements...wham. No more supply. [:)] Hehe, a very good point indeed. One I hope Erik doesn´t think about!
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JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]12th-13th January -45[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

Erik and I managed 4 turns today. Not bad. [:)]


------------------------
South China Sea
------------------------

Well, I don´t think I´ll have that CV battle I wanted. On the 12th a stray grace strike revealed our true strength.
Morning Air attack on TF, near Cam Ranh Bay at 65,76

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 107 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 3

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 89
Corsair IV x 19
Hellcat I x 8
Seafire IIC x 14
Seafire L.III x 2
F4U-1A Corsair x 165
F4U-1D Corsair x 196
F6F-3 Hellcat x 231
F6F-5 Hellcat x 44


Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses

I guess that 750 plane CAP is a bit discouraging. I also managed to mess up my setting a bit and had a strike take off on the 13th. They hit the CAP at Saigon but did better then expected!
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saigon at 60,71

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 14
A7M2 Sam x 9
J2M3 Jack x 6
J2M5 Jack x 33
N1K1-J George x 7
N1K2-J George x 23
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 10
Ki-84a Frank x 50
Ki-84r Frank x 70
Ki-100-I Tony x 89


Allied aircraft
Hellcat I x 24
F6F-3 Hellcat x 293
F6F-5 Hellcat x 172

SB2C-3 Helldiver x 53


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Hellcat I: 3 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 12 destroyed, 6 damaged


Japanese Ships
TK Nissyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
TK Goyo Maru
TK Tatekawa Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
E Hirashima, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
TK Gen'yo Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
E Ishizaki


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saigon at 60,71

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 12
A7M2 Sam x 9
J2M3 Jack x 5
J2M5 Jack x 32
N1K1-J George x 6
N1K2-J George x 22
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 10
Ki-84a Frank x 46
Ki-84r Frank x 69
Ki-100-I Tony x 88


Allied aircraft
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 22
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 28


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 10 destroyed, 1 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 7 destroyed


Japanese Ships
2, heavy fires[/color]


Looks like Erik railed out all the radars and with the CAP up high not many fighters had time to intercept. This reveals the true strength of the fleet though. KB disappeared on the 13th. Probably heading back towards the HI. I´m going to detach a CVE TF to the DEI while the rest of the fleet stays put outside Saigon. Pretty soon I hope there is going to be 3 division + some stuck there and this time there won´t be a Naval evacuation.

------------------------
DEI
------------------------

I grab another base in the Celebes. Another base is also under siege but my units need to rest fatigue. With a CVE TF on its way I can really speed things up here. A assault ship detachment will follow with a bunch of LSTs and xAKs.

------------------------
Luzon
------------------------

B29s strike Manila again to keep the fires burning. I want to try and burn any supply I can. Next DA is 3-4 days out. Troops are recovering well. But so is the Japs.

------------------------
Indochina
------------------------

I decided to not waste any time going around the crossing. I´ll go straight over. 4300 AV should blast a hole. With Bangkok open I could rebase some bombers there. They got some good hits on the defenders. To help with the crossing I also set the armor to attack again. Its a bit suicidal but I hope to mess the defenders up a bit more in preparation of the crossing in two days.


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princep01
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RE: 1945!

Post by princep01 »

Joc, I appauld you're willingness to push hard and fast for Vinh.  I feel he has probably already railed many of the troops he pulled out of Bangkok on to Hanoi, but cutting that rail escape line will be very valuable in entrapping another large army in southern Vietnam.  Too bad there are so few bases along that rail line as he might fail to garrison one strongly.  A Chindit/para air assault on a lightly defended base (Tourane) on the rail line might pay dividends.  I'd do some recon on the bases along that line and see if one fits the bill for an air assault.
 
There are TFs at Hanoi.  Do you think he is gathering an armada of lift to pull troops out from there?  Maybe a Heavy Bomber strike on the port at Hanoi could slow things down.  Given the huge CAP at Saigon, he might be caught with a light CAP at Hanoi.
 
Also, I am curious.  Did he pull troops out of Manila as I suspected? 
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ny59giants
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RE: 1945!

Post by ny59giants »

I would still have a supply TF in the Philippines ready to go across the SCS with at least 500k worth to feed the hungry army of your in the greater IndoChina area. As soon as you get a decent size port, I would escort it over.
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JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

princep, Thanks! [:)] I just wish I would have gotten there earlier. Sadly Erik has secured all the bases with at least a BDE sized unit. Throw in a couple of forts and its rock solid.

I think the shipping at Hanoi is shipping escaped from DEI/Singers/Saigon. He might try to lift them out as you suggest. I hadn´t thought of that! I won´t allow any troops to sail towards Luzon/Formosa. If he want them there he is going to have to walk them further east first. Thanks for the ideas. I´m going to shift the CV fleet further North to close the sealanes. Problem right now is that I need to cover Saigon too. He has 130 ships in the port there that I want to sink. [:)]

I havn´t gotten the last turn back, only the replay so I don´t know if he has pulled out of Manila yet. [:)]

Michael, As soon as I get a base on the coast I´ll send in supply. I promise! [:D]
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JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]14th January -45[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

I havn´t gotten the turn file yet so this is based only on the replay. It was a turn of discoveries!


------------------------
Luzon
------------------------

Erik has placed some CD guns at Bataan. They blew our PTs and minesweepers out of the water. Not really sure how to deal with this. Can´t bomb from the air and can´t risk heavy guns to the mines still in place. Hmm...

------------------------
Saigon
------------------------

Crap, lots of mines here too. And I didn´t bring any DMS with me. 4 Fletchers hits mines. None sink. Usually they only need a few days to patch up SYS damage. In return we sunk an AMC. Whooptidoo.

And thats about it. No more happened this turn. [X(]

This baby arrives in two days. Not really sure what do do with her. I don´t really have a need for a supersized CA/Mini BB at this point. Probably going to stick her with the fast CVs as a AA platform.

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JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]Manila[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

Here is screen of the troops. While FAT/DIS may look bad they were almost 3 times as bad just a few days ago. I think we will be able to attack again in 2 turns. I´ll then have about 5 days to rest after that before the 3 additional divisions arrive together with another 250 AV Engineer RGT. By then I can hopefully also add the 24th ID that got mauled in the first attack. So I might be able to add about 2000 AV for that attack.

EDIT: Put in the troops the day after the attack for comparison.




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Lokasenna
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RE: 1945!

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

This baby arrives in two days. Not really sure what do do with her. I don´t really have a need for a supersized CA/Mini BB at this point. Probably going to stick her with the fast CVs as a AA platform.

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May as well. She's got a nice AA value. Pretty sure this was her designed role anyway, or at least what she ended up doing historically.
JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

According to Wikipedia she was designed to battle the oversized Japanese and German Cruisers. Guess they arrived a little late for that! [:D]
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poodlebrain
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RE: 1945!

Post by poodlebrain »

What would have been the chances of actually encountering one of the ships she was designed to counter? Those were awfully big oceans to hunt. Neither the Germans nor the Japanese would have been too keen to engage in combat with anything of Alaska's class, they had a hard enough time with the Fletcher class destroyers that would have been her escorts.
Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.
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paullus99
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RE: 1945!

Post by paullus99 »

The Americans thought the Japanese were building something similar...in the end, they were white elephants & the resources put into designing and building them could have been put to use building at least two Essex-class CVs for each CB built (plus aircraft).
Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...
JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

They actually considered converting (during construction) the Alaskas to CVs but disregarded the idea because of the weak underwater armor. Instead they used the Hulls of Clevelands and converted them to Independence CVLs.

Wikipedia knowledge so its probably not entirely accurate. [:)]
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paullus99
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RE: 1945!

Post by paullus99 »

@Joc - the Cleveland's predated the CBs by quite a bit, and it took forever to design them (the Navy experimented with several configurations of their main gun armaments, which took a lot of time).....they served mostly as CV escorts and shore bombardment - not a real fair trade, if you ask me.
Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...
JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

No not really fair at all. They deserved better as it was a good design. But I guess they also didn´t have much to shoot at once they started arriving.
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JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]14th January -45 (Cont.)[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

So now that I got the turn file and sent it back to Erik there are some things to update. Good things too! [:)]

------------------------
Saigon
------------------------

Well, my little stunt worked. Looks like I managed to turn that defeat in to a victory! As can be seen in the screen US troops have entered Saigon thus preventing anything to rail out! [&o] 75.000 troops are now "stuck" in and around Saigon. There is a small chance that Erik can kick me out but I highly doubt it. Three US IDs are pretty formidable at this stage.

I saw the opportunity a few days ago when I noticed just how fast my IDs move in the clear hexes when in move mode. So I simply rushed them in figuring Erik needed 3 days to get into strat mode and then another to get out. And it worked. [:)]

What this brought me was what I needed most. Time! Erik now has to walk East to Cam Rahn Bay before he can get on the rail. By that time I will surely have cut the rail around Vinh thus forming a pocket out of the entire peninsula. I really needed this. Felt really good to turn a Allied debacle into a Japanese one! [:'(]

Finally some good news! [:)]

Also spotted a big tanker TF just outside Saigon. Can Erik be that bold? Fletchers (with embedded DMS this time) will check it out tonight.

------------------------
Thailand
------------------------

I´m preparing for the cut off by sending 2 divisions to Ubon. They will move towards Hue and then start mop ops working south from there. Once Hue is secured I have 460.000 supply convoy ready to go. [;)] The US troops and the Indian division will hop back on to the rail and go to Udon Thani and walk to Vinh meeting up with the rest of the troops. The Chinese will be left to deal with the Japanese. Wonder where Erik will make his stand. Probably Saigon as he has over 100 ships at anchor there. I´ll rail down the arty from the superstack to help out.

------------------------
KB
------------------------

Found it this turn again huddling just NE of Formosa. I have considered a fast CV strike towards it but ruled it out. It gains me nothing even if I was successful.



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JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

Question on rivercrossings.

If I cross with 4300 AV and already have 400 AV on the other side. Shouldn´t that trigger a shock attack? Isn´t it 1/3rd of own AV minimum to avoid the shock attack?
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Spidery
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RE: 1945!

Post by Spidery »

Question on rivercrossings.

My understanding is no shock attack if you have 1/3rd of the enemy AV in the hex that has crossed through that hexside and is still in the hex.

However, I have not had shock attacks when I expected them and had them when I did not so I may be misunderstanding some aspect of the rule.
JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Spidery
Question on rivercrossings.

My understanding is no shock attack if you have 1/3rd of the enemy AV in the hex that has crossed through that hexside and is still in the hex.

However, I have not had shock attacks when I expected them and had them when I did not so I may be misunderstanding some aspect of the rule.

Ah, so its the own and enemy AV already in the hex that decides shock attack or not? And it has nothing to do with the actual AV that is crossing crossing?

At least in this case it would seem to be correct. We have about the same AV in the hex I´m crossing into.
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JocMeister
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RE: 1945!

Post by JocMeister »

[font="Verdana"]15th January -45[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

Again the only action is in and around the South China Sea

------------------------
Saigon
------------------------

I sent in a Fletcher TFs with some DMS embedded to try and avoid the mines. I did avoid the mines but Erik had some CD guns at Saigon that ripped my poor DMS to shreds. Same problem as I have at Bataan. Mines and CD guns in combination. I don´t know how to counter this. Any ideas?

We did find some nice targets though! [:)]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Saigon at 60,71, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E W-19, Shell hits 1
E W-27
E W-34
SC Ch 1
SC Ch 3
TK Kyokuyo Maru
TK Tonan Maru #2
TK Tonan Maru #3, Shell hits 12, heavy fires
AV Canberra Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire
TK Matsushima Maru
TK Munakata Maru, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
TK Amato Maru, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
TK Palembang Maru, Shell hits 11, heavy fires
TK Ryoei Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires


Allied Ships
DD Hudson
DD Ingersoll
DD Richard P. Leary, Shell hits 1
DD Leutze
DMS Wasmuth, Shell hits 1
DMS Macomb
DMS Elliot
DD Walke II
DD Laffey II
DD O' Brien II
DD Ingraham II
DD Barton II


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Saigon at 60,71, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E W-19
E W-27, Shell hits 1
E W-34, Shell hits 6, on fire
SC Ch 1
SC Ch 3, Shell hits 2
TK Kyokuyo Maru, Shell hits 7, heavy fires
TK Tonan Maru #2, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AV Canberra Maru, Shell hits 5, on fire
TK Matsushima Maru, Shell hits 4, heavy fires


Allied Ships
DD Hudson
DD Ingersoll
DD Richard P. Leary
DD Leutze, Shell hits 1
DMS Elliot, Shell hits 1
DD Walke II
DD Laffey II
DD O' Brien II



Almost every hit resulted in a "oil cargo burning" message. I guess thats a death sentence to any tanker. [:D]

Sadly the DMS decided to start sweeping mines between the first and second attack.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 127 encounters mine field at Saigon (60,71) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

143 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DMS Elliot, Shell hits 3, on fire
DMS Macomb, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Wasmuth, Shell hits 13, heavy fires, heavy damage


Cape St.Jaques Fortress firing at DMS Elliot
DMS Elliot firing at Cape St.Jaques Fortress
Cape St.Jaques Fortress firing at DMS Macomb
DMS Macomb firing at Cape St.Jaques Fortress
Cape St.Jaques Fortress firing at DMS Wasmuth
18 mines cleared

Only the Elliott survives the CD fire. Dang! [:(]

------------------------
Indochina
------------------------

As indicated in a post earlier the crossing towards Vihn did not result in a shock attack. Good news. The road to Vinh should be opened tomorrow! [&o]

------------------------
Luzon
------------------------

Troops has recover almost completely. But I decided to wait one more turn for the FAT drop into single digits. AV is now up to 3932.

I don´t know if it was intentional or not but two Kami strikes flew against the shipping at Batangas (1 hex outside Manila). They flew unescorted and only in two raids. Only 4 manage to get through the CAP.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Batangas at 79,78

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes [X(]

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 31

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 36
P-38L Lightning x 24
P-51D Mustang x 160
F4U-1D Corsair x 24


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 10 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed by flak


No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DE Lawrence

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-43-IIIa Oscar flying as kamikaze
Kamikaze: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Batangas at 79,78

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 148 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61-Id Tony x 46

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 35
P-38L Lightning x 22
P-51D Mustang x 159
F4U-1D Corsair x 24


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-Id Tony: 16 destroyed


75 Oscars and Tonys are reported shot down or crashed.


------------------------
Superstack
------------------------

Erik again launched an attack. This time a DA. Still no units destroyed!

Ground combat at 55,59 (near Tavoy)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 59335 troops, 928 guns, 1700 vehicles, Assault Value = 158

Defending force 50719 troops, 696 guns, 414 vehicles, Assault Value = 1405

Japanese adjusted assault: 1

Allied adjusted defense: 8167

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 8167

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3520 casualties reported
Squads: 186 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 196 disabled
Engineers: 30 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 32 (23 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 44 (6 destroyed, 38 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
114 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled



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