War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

[Cap Mandrake]

Well, this should be fun. If he lands in the hex where I live (227,77 near that dirt trail) I will grab an M1 and come out and help.


No cross-pollinating people. Anyone who gives away the color of the bridesmaid dresses will suffer severe group disapproval and will not be invited to the reception.[:-]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

1/2/42
 
NoPac:  Nothing major happens up here today.  Just that general feeling that storm clouds are slowly but ominously building up just beyond the horizon.  Is a major amphibious force head for North America, or am I just way off?  (Rhetorical question; don't reply, of course.)

CenPac:  CA Minneapolis and CL St. Louis team up to face a TF of three CAs (Furutaka, Kinugasa and Aoba) followed by a second TF that includes CA Nachi.  That's alot of firepower.  The Allies get the better of the match, doing a little damage to those first two CAs, but will lose DD Helm.  This action occurs at Rabaul.  CA Indianapolis will try to intercept those same enemy TFs tomorrow.

Eastern DEI:  Hermes springs into action as her Stringbags torpedo and sink three xAK near Lautem.  That's really a pretty good show for this little ship.

What do you guys think?  Last week, I requested a temporary cessation of detailed advice analysis until I could wrap my head around the issue.  I really like the results.  It just seems more sane and less "puppeteers controlling the puppet's strings" this way.  I know alot of smart folks could offer plenty of good analysis and advice that the Peanut Gallery might benefit from, but I think this is the way to go.  Where to draw the line?  I dunno.  It's a gray and shifting line.  For instance, Historiker early on suggested that I consider a garrison of Cocos Island.  I mulled it over and took him up on it.  Little tips and hints are welcome, but I would prefer at this point to avoid a micromanagement/inundation kind of thread.  Thanks.

Yes, good idea. From now on you will need to deposit 10 bucks in my Paypal account for any sage advice that I can provide. I can't be giving this stuff out for free anymore....[;)]

In fact, looking over your past AARs I noticed that I was throwing you a lot of tips. I am working up a bill now. But don't worry, I am going to cut you a big volume discount.

But this one is for free. I have discovered that the Japanese players frequently short change the build up and defense of the DEI in 42 and 43 while creating havoc elsewhere. I have had a lot of fun and luck with heavy carrier raids on his outer DEI oilfields, it is the perfect counter to all Japanese aggression as it forces them to stage lots of fighters there from the get go and any early hit to Japanese oil means big trouble later. Take your six carriers and run in to Palembang and hit the airfield on the run in. Odds are that you will take out the field and they usually have not built up anything else nearby. Then if you know KB is not around two city strikes on the oil field will knock the place silly. If KB is working up north you can just move up and down the coast hitting his oil fields. This works way to well in my opinion.

[Miller]

That tip could be a real game killer for a Jap player if it comes off for the Allies, but they would only have themselves to blame. I have at least 100 of my best fighters and pilots at Palembang regardless of how far away the nearest Allied base is.

[Canoerebel]

1/3/42
 
An interesting day, mainly in giving some clues about Steve's mind-set and gaming philosophy.
 
NoPac:  Patrols report a long arc of enemy ships in the Gulf of Alaska, oriented on a NE to SW axis.  These could be inbound, outbound, or both.  So it doesn't necessarily constitute the mass of force I'm looking for.  Main KB still posted well to the NW of Coal Harbor, where Allied AV is up to 90.  IJ shock attacks fail at both Juneau and Dutch Harbor.  These are small garrisons holding off larger ones, and I suspect is must be irritating Steve a bit.
 
West Coast:  I took a fairly long look at how a So Cal invasion and blitzkieg might look.  I think I would do it by landing at one of the Cen Cal beaches between SF and LA and then use paratroops in hopes of seizing ungarrisoned March Field or Bakersfield or Las Vegas to cut off the LOC to the coast for the line-of-death troops that arrive at Salt Lake City.  I"m repositioning two coastal defense units to the two beaches I think are likely targets.  A Marine 'chutes battalion goes to Las Vegas (that I'm garrisoning Las Vegas tells you something about my mind-set), an army regiment goes to March Field, and I'll sift through the wheat to find a kernel to send to Bakersfield.
 
CenPac:  Rabaul falls.
 
Eastern DEI:  The three Allied carriers (Lex, Ent, Hermes) are retiring to the south.  I think one will stay in theater to keep Steve honest.  Hermes may join Indomitable near Cocos Island to cover that vector.  One American carrier may do something else, but I don't know what yet.
 
Philippines:  Steve tries a damaging (to him) shock attack at Clark Field.  This is very surprising to me.  I shrugged off the previous one as a cagey veteran taking a stab at a long shot that just might work.  But this one?  I dunno.  He messed up his troops pretty good.  Also, he used a tiny para-fragment, probably in an effort to get better odds.  Teh combat replay showed an AV of just 1.  That's pretty lame if I'm reading it right.  (I'm not assuming it's right - it's just a puzzle piece I set aside for later consideration, joining the piece that I set aside when part of the KB chased Ent right after Pearl Harbor.)

[vettim89]

The RN actually did what CRSutton proposes in RL.

As for advice, I turned myself off so to speak. Quite frankly PJH's NoPac operation could be one of three things:

1. A prelude to an outright WCUSA invasion.
2. A prelude to establishing ABs to mount a Strat Bombing campaign
3. A huge diversion to force CR to allocate resources that could otherwise be used to defend Oz, India, NZ or the SoPac.

As I have no idea what PJH is really up to at this point, I choose to abstain from offering any more advice

Just grabbing my popcorn and enjoying the ride

[Cribtop]

Watch for deployment of Nukes to the San Andreas fault. PJH could be going for the Lex Luthor plan! [:D]

Actually, in a more serious vein, I agree with those who say to trust your instincts, CR. They usually serve you well. Further, you have a personal style that uses a good force allocation instinct but remains flexible enough to adopt very different levels of aggressiveness from one game to the next.

[Lomri]

I'm not experienced enough to really do a thorough analysis of the Coco Island advise but I don't really see how it is all that much of a Fortress. Once Java and Sumatra fall Japan will have much closer bases within patrol and bomber range. And I'm not sure how much it buys you. It certainly doesn't seem game changing. Can anyone explain how to leverage holding this island can make a big difference?

[Canoerebel]

Lomri, this is one of the aspects of the game that I love.  Identifying ways to slow or frustrate the enemy.
 
Cocos Island isn't a fortress, but it is one of those obscure bases that can be very, very important in identifying and retarding enemy plans.  If Steve is moving on India or western Oz, he probably wants to take Cocos to secure his flank.  Posting a small unit there (60 AV) prevents him from taking it by para assault or by a tiny ground unit.  That, in turn, might slow him down  a bit while telling me alot about his intentions.
 
Two other key "tell-tales" for enemy moves on India are Port Blair and Diego Garci..  Both of them got larger garrisons as I want to make Steve work to get them.
 
I'm even weighing right now what to do with two Brit brigades that are aboard ship in the Indian Ocean and serving as a reserve.  I haven't decided yet, but I have consdidered dropping about 50 AV or so at both Cocos and Diego to really mess with any moves Steve might make this way.  But at the moment I'll stay flexible with the option of diverting them to India or Oz.

[Canoerebel]

Here's an exchange of emails between myself and PH on the parachute question.  Please don't comment on this.  We're just starting to discuss it and I thought you guys might appreciate being privy to it:

Me:  "[font=arial]Tell me you didn't use a para-fragment to half the odds at Clark Field? Das darf nicht war sein![/font]"

PH:  "No, not a fragment, I have the entire para-unit ordered to attack Clark. It is the same unit that started the game by taking Vigan and then dropped on Lingayen. I thought the general consensus was/is that it os ok to use paratroopers as long as you use the whole unit and not split it up?  Does that mean you dont think paratroopers should be allowed to help assaults at all? Because I have another unit prepping for Singapore to be used when I attack there. Do you think it is ok to use full units to half the odds, or are paratroopers never allowed to drop into land-combat hexes to half the odds?"

Me:  "[font=arial]Us of paratroopers is fine generally, but using small fragments against massive defenses would cross the line. [/font]Thus, I might not hestitate to use a parachute fragment to take a small or undefended base, but I wouldn't use a fragment against a massive defensive bulwark to artificially lower the odds.  I don't know how much of this unit you used, but the combat relpay showed it had an AV of one. It also showed that the unit evaporated during the attack, which suggested it was a small unit. But if you used the entire unit or substantially all of the unit then that's certainly better.  In general, I do not use Allied paratroops to half the odds against major defensive positions. If you wish to do so, then I'll consider it myself later on, should I get the chance. Either way is fine with me.

PH: "I agree and I think you have a fair point. I tend to use my paratroopers the same way. What complicates things here, and makes my use of them perhaps in the gray-area is that I have the entire unit at Vigan, prepped and ready, but I do not have enough air-transport capacity to lift the entire unit, and you were able to intercept some of my air transports before the drop. I think I will continue using my paras like you outline in your post, and in the future I will make sure to have enough airlift-capacity in place to lift more than 50% of the unit in one go (that means roughly one transport per AV-point, my paras have 20-30 AV per unit if I remember correctly). You are of cource free to use your paras in a similar way, if you use them like you outline in your post I think it would be perfectly fair."[/align]

This tells me that Steve is okay with using a small parachute unit to half the odds against major defensive installations. To me that's kind of lame, but if he does it then I'll do it later, should I get the chance.

[Miller]

Does using paras in that way half the defenders AV? I thought that was a myth that had been debunked by one of the developers............

[Canoerebel]

My impressions was that the debunking had been debunked.  IE, that it does half the defending AV.  I could be wrong, though.  It didn't seem to do the job in this case. 

[Canoerebel]

Something else to share with you guys.
 
One of the thrills of the game is the unknown - playing an opponent you don't know; the vast number of possiblities and uncertainties; and the excitement and challenge when facing a big attack and/or an enemy auto victory.  We don't get these experiences often, so treasure each one!
 
I am not privy to any outside inforamtion regarding PH.  I haven't ever read his AARs.  I'm not doing so now.  I'm not getting any input via PM nor do I want any (though I still appreciate the occasional good suggestions posted in this AAR).  IE, I'm pretty much in the dark about PH, although I do know he'x experienced, capable, and a ally of Nemo.  That gives me some information and insight.
 
So, as you can see, I'm enjoying myself immensely even as I'm dealing with the stress of the unknown and the dread possiblity of failing miserably and very publicly. 

[Capt. Harlock]

CA Minneapolis and CL St. Louis team up to face a TF of three CAs (Furutaka, Kinugasa and Aoba) followed by a second TF that includes CA Nachi. That's alot of firepower. The Allies get the better of the match, doing a little damage to those first two CAs, but will lose DD Helm. This action occurs at Rabaul. CA Indianapolis will try to intercept those same enemy TFs tomorrow.

You might want to be careful. Minneapolis and St. Louis were both well-armored ships, and providing they could stay clear of Long Lances, they could be expected to do well against three cruisers with only 18 guns between them. (St. Louis alone had 15 guns, granted only six-inchers.) Indianapolis did not carry the same protection. Unless all four Japanese CA's are low on ammo, she could be handled roughly.

[Canoerebel]

Thanks for the tip, Capt. Harlock.  I did not know that!
 
Indianapolis failed in making the intercept, so she's heading for a home port to replenish.  My main problem with her is that her captain has refused to engage much weaker enemy TFs on several occsions - I mean transports!  I'm replacing him as soon as I can.  That guy is going to the Naval Supply School in Athens, Georgia, to compile a list of beautiful co-eds at the University.  But he may not even be up to that.

[Canoerebel]

1/4/42
 
NoPac:  The Japanese are landing at Alliford Bay, and the KB is positioned just off Coal Harbor, with her Zeroes picking off transports bringing in part of a US Army detachment.  To the north Dutch Harbor falls, but Juneau holds.  At a minimum it looks like Steve is truly implementing the "Canadaian landings following by strategic bombing of USA industry" plan.  Whether that's the main show or just a part of a bigger show remains to be seen.
 
Malaya:  The bulk of the Japanese army is way up at Kuala Lumpur, where it was slowed for three or four days by the brave men of the 8th Indian Brigade.  It's going to be awhile before Japan can move into Singapore proper.  This currently doesn't have the appearance of a blitkrieg campaing.
 
Luzon:  I'm still enjoying the carnage suffered by the Japanese army at Clark Field yesterday.  One division shows an AV of less than 90; another less than 190; and two more less than 400.  They'll recover, but I don't think Steve gets a quick and tidy conquest here.
 
China:  Two Chinese corps in the open withstood an attack by a full-strength Japanese division and two mixed brigades.  That's stout fighting!  In part, this was due to replacing each commander yesterday (having PP to replace Chinese army commanders before key battles is a critical item).  Steve has basically been repulsed three times now in the north sector, though there's lots more fighting and uncertainty to come.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

The RN actually did what CRSutton proposes in RL.

As for advice, I turned myself off so to speak. Quite frankly PJH's NoPac operation could be one of three things:

1. A prelude to an outright WCUSA invasion.
2. A prelude to establishing ABs to mount a Strat Bombing campaign
3. A huge diversion to force CR to allocate resources that could otherwise be used to defend Oz, India, NZ or the SoPac.

As I have no idea what PJH is really up to at this point, I choose to abstain from offering any more advice

Just grabbing my popcorn and enjoying the ride

Ot just simply grabbing 7 bases with multipliers between 10 - 100 that are in a very dense configuration rendering easy low cost grabbing of points and making Auto-victory more possible ....

[Canoerebel]

Here's the Line of Death reinforcements for the USA (from a test run by the intrepid Bullwinkle 1.5 years ago).  This includes a fairly stout number of fighter squadrons.  Does this suggest that triggering LOD reinforcements would be very counter-productive to a plan to engage in strategic bombing?  I think so.
 
VMD-1 arrives at San Diego
VMD-2 arrives at San Diego
VMF-123 arrives at San Diego
VMF-124 arrives at San Diego
VMSB-143 arrives at San Diego
VMSB-144 arrives at San Diego
VMO-151 arrives at Eastern USA
VMF-213 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-214 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-223 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-224 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMSB-233 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMSB-234 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMSB-242 arrives at Santa Barbara
VMSB-243 arrives at Santa Barbara
VMSB-244 arrives at San Diego
VP-61 arrives at Alameda
VP-62 arrives at Alameda
VS-6D14 arrives at Alameda
ZP-32 arrives at Alameda
No.118 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada
No.132 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada
No.133 Sqn RCAF arrives at Nelson
No.135 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada
No.147 Sqn RCAF arrives at Vancouver
9th PS arrives at Spokane
71st OG/17th OS arrives at San Francisco
7th BG/9th BS arrives at San Francisco
7th BG/11th BS arrives at Aden
7th BG/22nd BS arrives at San Francisco
43rd BG/63rd BS arrives at Eastern USA
43rd BG/64th BS arrives at Eastern USA
43rd BG/65th BS arrives at Eastern USA
38th BG/69th BS arrives at Eastern USA
38th BG/70th BS arrives at Eastern USA
38th BG/71st BS arrives at Eastern USA
90th BG/319th BS arrives at Eastern USA
90th BG/320th BS arrives at Eastern USA
90th BG/321st BS arrives at Eastern USA
307th BG/370th BS arrives at Spokane
307th BG/371st BS arrives at Spokane
307th BG/372nd BS arrives at Spokane
308th BG/373rd BS arrives at Boise
308th BG/374th BS arrives at Boise
308th BG/375th BS arrives at Boise
90th BG/400th BS arrives at Eastern USA
43rd BG/403rd BS arrives at Eastern USA
28th CG/404th BS arrives at Eastern USA
38th BG/405th BS arrives at Eastern USA
307th BG/35th RS arrives at Spokane
308th BG/36th RS arrives at Boise
341st BG/490th BS arrives at Aden
341st BG/491st BS arrives at Karachi
301st BG/32nd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/352nd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/353rd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/419th BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/358th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/359th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/360th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/427th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave
7th BG/9th BS Det arrives at San Francisco
7th BG/88th RS Det arrives at San Francisco
23rd FG/74th FS arrives at Aden
23rd FG/75th FS arrives at Aden
23rd FG/76th FS arrives at Aden
328th FG/326th FS arrives at San Francisco
328th FG/327th FS arrives at San Francisco
328th FG/329th FS arrives at San Francisco
329th FG/330th FS arrives at San Francisco
329th FG/331st FS arrives at San Francisco
18th FG/333rd FS arrives at Pearl Harbor
55th FG/338th FS arrives at Portland
329th FG/332nd FS arrives at San Francisco
374th TCG/6th TCS arrives at Eastern USA
13th TCS arrives at Eastern USA
22nd TS arrives at Melbourne
42nd TCS arrives at Anchorage
1st FeG/3rd FeS arrives at Aden
1st FeG/6th FeS arrives at Aden
1st FeG/13th FeS arrives at Aden
7th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at San Francisco
307th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Spokane
308th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Boise
301st BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/Hq sqn arrives at Mojave
23rd FG/Hq Sqn arrives at Aden
35th PG/Hq Sqn arrives at San Francisco
II USA Armored Corps arrives at San Luis Obispo
II USA Corps arrives at Salt Lake City
2nd Armored Division arrives at Salt Lake City
4th Motorized Division arrives at Salt Lake City
8th Motorized Division arrives at Salt Lake City
36th Infantry Division arrives at Salt Lake City
Provisional Tank Brigade arrives at Mojave
2nd Army Tank Brigade arrives at Canada
Invasion Mobilstn Supply Convoy arrives at Salt Lake City

[Miller]

He would have to be insane to seriously consider any sort of land invasion of the WC.........I mean come on, it may work against someone who has never played the game before but thats about it? Or am I missing something?

[Historiker]

I don't see how there can be any benefit from an invasion unless it destroyes the allied industry permanently (or changes plane factories to HI). Especially as the reinforcements are unrestriced IIRC.
So all you have to worry is to make sure he doesn't take the few bases with aircraft factories and hope he tries it. If he does, you get enough forces for a forcefull counter-offensive in mid 42...

[Canoerebel]

You're probably right, but I am taking a caeful look to deterime if it would be possible under these circumstances: Land, grab a few bases, isolate LA and SD, grab them (earning lots of VP) and then engage in a big strategic bombing campaign to earn more VP.
 
Looking at this list, it doesn't seem like a very wise option for Japan, but I need to take a more thorough look tomorrow.