Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
ORIGINAL: obvert
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The Allied army now showing itself on the way to China. This is a portion. How much is walking and railing along this route?
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Wow, still collecting almost all the DEI in June 45 … your economy must be in great shape which bodes very badly for the allies. All of my plans are for losing DEI June 44, anything beyond that is gravy … you have a full year of gravy. That's like 20,000 additional AC for the IJ … huge potential difference …
I feel very fortunate in this, but I'm still feeling the pinch of not having the Northern resource centres. I probably should have pulled more earlier from the SRA, but trying to make up for it by sending literally every remaining xAK to Soerabaja to load up and head back to Tokyo. I could move this 1.5 million resources on Java within a few weeks if all goes to plan.
I'd not considered resources a chokepoint for the IJ late previously, but with an Allied Northern strategy they become much more dear.
The economic constraints on Japan can vary from game to game, but there always is one or more. That the Allied player almost never, ever coordinates their military goals with economic is perhaps one of their greatest failures.
Chalk it up to most Allied players never really understanding Japan's economic system & situation, or perhaps it is simply so easy to rely upon the bigger wrench theory and the path of least resistance.
Whatever, the case, it makes for much longer end games.[;)]
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
It bears repeating that the threshold for an automatic victory "win" is actually 12/31/1945, not 8/31/1945, since it came up again a few pages (and 10 days...) back.
ORIGINAL: Alfred
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
It bears repeating that the threshold for an automatic victory "win" is actually 12/31/1945, not 8/31/1945, since it came up again a few pages (and 10 days...) back.
No.
The threshold of relevance is 31 August 1945.
The only significance of an Automatic Victory is that the game ends at that point (although the players have the option of continuing to play on). An Automatic Victory can be achieved in 1946. In terms of determining the level of victory, an Automatic Victory does not of itself represent anything for all it does by itself is end the game.
The game design only determines the level of victory at the end of the game, it is not determined during the course of the game. Why then do players accord an Automatic Victory more significance than the game design accords it? The answer is that the point at which it kicks in is one where if the scenario had ended by reaching the scenario end date with those Victory Points, the Victory Points won would be translated into a Decisive Victory. Except under two very specific circumstances, these being if the Allied player used more than 2 atomic bombs or it occurs after 31 August 1945. In both of these instances the actual game victory level is downgraded to less than a Decisive Victory because it is a performance inferior to the historical outcome.
For an Allied player anything less than a Decisive Victory equates to an inferior performance than the historical record and in turn represents Japan achieving its historical peace objective. Japan was never under any illusion that a satisfactory peace deal was possible unless the Allies suffered substantial losses. Those Allied losses did not have to exceed Japan's, they merely had to exceed the Allied public's willingness to support them. It is irrelevant what spin an Allied player places on achieving less than a Decisive Victory, the game is designed around relative, not absolute performance as measured by the Victory Points. As such it rewards the Japanese player who prevents his opponent from achieving a Decisive Victory.
All that obvert has to do is prevent his opponent from achieving a Decisive Victory by 31 August 1945. By doing so he guarantees that whenever the game ends (either via Automatic Victory or scenario end date) the game design rewards him with a relative win.
Alfred
17.1 VICTORY LEVELS
War in the Pacific, Admiral’s Edition™ can end in either a Decisive or Marginal Victory for
one side, or in a draw. Victory Levels are displayed at the end of the game and determined as
follows:
»» Allied Decisive Victory: Allied VP Score is 1.75 times (or
greater) higher than the Japanese VP Score
»» Allied Marginal Victory: Allied VP Score is 1.25 to 1.74
times higher than the Japanese VP Score
»» Draw: The Allied VP Score or Japanese VP Score is 1 to
1.24 times higher than their opponent’s score
»» Japanese Marginal Victory: Japanese VP Score is 1.25
to 1.74 times higher than the Allied VP Score
»» Japanese Decisive Victory: Japanese VP Score is 1.75
times (or greater) higher than the Allied VP Score
17.1.1 VICTORY AFTER 1945
If the game ends in 1946 when the scenario time expires (as opposed to ending due to an
Automatic Victory), the Victory Level moves two levels in the Japanese player’s favor.
Example: scenario 15 ends when time expires in March 1946 with the Allies having 1.8 times
the Japanese points. Normally this would be a Decisive Allied Victory, but since it is ending due
to time expiring in 1946, it shifts to a Draw.
ORIGINAL: John B.
Alfred, as always, is correct. From p. 266 "In addition, if the Allies score an automatic victory after August 31, 1945 the victory scored will only be an Allied Marginal Victory (unless the Allies have used 3 or more A bombs in which case the game would end in a draw)."
ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart
So, if you're Allies and have a 1.99 ratio on September 1, 1945, you'd want to be sure to keep under that until the end of the game to get a Decisive Victory (i.e. you'd want to end up between 1.75 and 1.99 in March 1946). You pop the 2.0 threshold you get a Marginal. It's an interesting possibility. CR could pull off a Decisive yet, at least according to the manual's terms.
" - BBfanboyTruthfully, it is kinda easy to overlook resources. I mean, who would plan to have DEI oil flowing to mid-45? Without all that extra oil, the resources likely wouldn't be needed. But here, with the economy still running at 100% in mid '45 all of sudden, yeah, the resources are actually needed.ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Wow, still collecting almost all the DEI in June 45 … your economy must be in great shape which bodes very badly for the allies. All of my plans are for losing DEI June 44, anything beyond that is gravy … you have a full year of gravy. That's like 20,000 additional AC for the IJ … huge potential difference …
I feel very fortunate in this, but I'm still feeling the pinch of not having the Northern resource centres. I probably should have pulled more earlier from the SRA, but trying to make up for it by sending literally every remaining xAK to Soerabaja to load up and head back to Tokyo. I could move this 1.5 million resources on Java within a few weeks if all goes to plan.
I'd not considered resources a chokepoint for the IJ late previously, but with an Allied Northern strategy they become much more dear.
The economic constraints on Japan can vary from game to game, but there always is one or more. That the Allied player almost never, ever coordinates their military goals with economic is perhaps one of their greatest failures.
Chalk it up to most Allied players never really understanding Japan's economic system & situation, or perhaps it is simply so easy to rely upon the bigger wrench theory and the path of least resistance.
Whatever, the case, it makes for much longer end games.[;)]
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
It still comes back to supplies, even with fewer resources from the north. In my small sample size experience, anyway.
Exactly!!!ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
It still comes back to supplies, even with fewer resources from the north. In my small sample size experience, anyway.
It takes resources to make the supplies! [:D]
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Exactly!!!ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
It still comes back to supplies, even with fewer resources from the north. In my small sample size experience, anyway.
It takes resources to make the supplies! [:D]
