optional rules

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I was just commenting and converting the Save Oil form for Theme Engine and found that the maximum # of saved oil points in a hex is set at 4 (from CWIF).

I don't think that is correct. Isn't it the same as Build points with a varying maximum amount depending on whther the hex is s Major Port, City, and/or major power Capital?

[oscar72se]

From RaW:
13.5.1
...
You may save only 1 oil marker (of any value) in each city or port (cumulative) you control and double these limits in your major power’s capital (e.g. The Commonwealth can save 16 oil (4 x 4) in London). You can’t save other resources. This is in addition to saved build points (see 13.6.8).
...
You are absolutely correct [:)]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: oscar72se

From RaW:
13.5.1
...
You may save only 1 oil marker (of any value) in each city or port (cumulative) you control and double these limits in your major power’s capital (e.g. The Commonwealth can save 16 oil (4 x 4) in London). You can’t save other resources. This is in addition to saved build points (see 13.6.8).
...
You are absolutely correct [:)]

Ok. I am going to change the code to comply with the following (from the MWIF descritpion of saving oil and build points):
=========
A player can save oil resources and build points from turn to turn. To save an oil
resource it must have neither been used in production nor for reorganizing units. The process is
fairly easy, you transport an oil resource to a city or a port that you control and simply indicate
that you are saving it. There is a limit on how much oil can be held in one hex: 4 for a city, 4 for
a port, and double if it's a major power's capital. For example, London can store 16 oil points =
(4 for the city + 4 for the port) * 2 for being a major power's capital. You can't save non-oil
resources. Neutral major powers can only save one oil per turn (in addition to any previously
saved oil).
=========
I am working on converting the Save Build Points form tonight and I see the same reference to a fixed quantity of 4.

Also, I note that in the rule the location can even be a minor port.

[Froonp]

4 was the old limit before RAW7 aug 04 came out.

[Arron69]

In CWIF i have also opserved that if you use all oil, you will not be able to save new oil. This is clearly an bug.

Andi

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Graf Zeppelin

In CWIF i have also opserved that if you use all oil, you will not be able to save new oil. This is clearly an bug.

Andi

I do not understand. Could you please provide more details so I can fix this?

[Arron69]

When you use saved oil to turn armoured units, ships and planes, when using oil rules, if you spend the last of your oil, you won't be able to save oil at all any more. if you save new oil it disappear. The way we worked around this with my group was to not use the last 0.5 oil, then the oilpoint was still there.

Andi.

[lomyrin]

ORIGINAL: Graf Zeppelin

When you use saved oil to turn armoured units, ships and planes, when using oil rules, if you spend the last of your oil, you won't be able to save oil at all any more. if you save new oil it disappear. The way we worked around this with my group was to not use the last 0.5 oil, then the oilpoint was still there.

Andi.

Having used CWiF a lot in the past and the present I have not had any problems with saving oil. Perhaps you are using an earlier version than the latest available?

Lars

[Froonp]

Same.
But maybe I never spent the last OIL (which is a damned bad idea anyway for any country except the USA & USSR who have heaps of oil at home).

[lomyrin]

As Italy I have often seen the last oil spent without any consequences for saving oil in the future.
 
Lars

[paulderynck]

A tricky situation often forgotten is that if you spend all your oil you don't get the "free" two fifths (plus a quarter for a free convoy re-org) of the next oil.

I expect the computer will be better at remembering the "two fifths problem" than most players are.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Has anything been posted on how the MWiF mechanics for reorganizing oil-dependent units will operate?

We use the rule and like it but the interturn overhead is arduous.

Thanks.

No I read that. I meant the player dialogs to select what gets re-orged - especially when you are real short of Oil as can happen with Japan and you start leaving CVPs on carriers flipped and air units at sea that are still face-up even though they slide down to the one and zero boxes (that they could intercept into the next turn). You would like to know the oil impact during the return to base step so it would be great to have an accessible running total of what your total cost in oil to re-org is currently running at.

BTW you get a free 2.25 oil to re-org with, so you get a free convoy flip each turn.

[paulderynck]

My 352 was really in reply to Steve's 340.

To add to that - what will be the mechanics of selecting some units to re-oil and others not?

If this has been discussed already I'm willing to search for it...

Just wanted to check first if you know. Thanks!

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

My 352 was really in reply to Steve's 340.

To add to that - what will be the mechanics of selecting some units to re-oil and others not?

If this has been discussed already I'm willing to search for it...

Just wanted to check first if you know. Thanks!

I am in the process of converting this form to the Theme Engine design. Here is how the display looks as I develop it - in actual use the background will be colored in and there will be lists of units and locations filled in.

The panel on the left lists all the units with their oil requirements.
The panel on the top - center & right shows all the oil point locations.
When you click on a unit, the counter for the unit is shown in the center.
When you click on a location, the map display in the lower right shows the hex and its surroundnig hexes.

Clicking on one of the four buttons uses the associated amount of oil to reorganize the unit.

[paulderynck]

Looks good assuming you go down the list and highlight those that will be re-oiled and skip those not, with the running total changing appropriately.

What about a peek at the worst case consumption situation anytime during the prior portion of the turn? "Worst case" would have to assume all units at sea will return to base.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Looks good assuming you go down the list and highlight those that will be re-oiled and skip those not, with the running total changing appropriately.

What about a peek at the worst case consumption situation anytime during the prior portion of the turn? "Worst case" would have to assume all units at sea will return to base.

I haven't checked this code in detail so I am uncertain about the availability of previews of consumption.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Looks good assuming you go down the list and highlight those that will be re-oiled and skip those not, with the running total changing appropriately.

What about a peek at the worst case consumption situation anytime during the prior portion of the turn? "Worst case" would have to assume all units at sea will return to base.

I haven't checked this code in detail so I am uncertain about the availability of previews of consumption.

CWiF had it.
I don't remember if you had to enter this dialog before the right time to know it, but you knew when deciding to return to base the min & max oil you had. The min were if you return to base no ship that could stay at sea.

[dale1066]

just sent something re this but it got crossthreaded Doh! into the stuffing thread

[Froonp]

Yes, seems to be the number on the top left.
My memories were that you had the min & max number. My memories seem wrong.

[dale1066]

version 0.7.71 if thats any help offhand cant think of any where else the max might be except in the oil usage window see attached