For the glory of the Kaiser

[ulver]

Here I disagree profoundly. If the US enters in mid 1915 they will play a non-trivial supporting role in blunting the 1916 offensive against Russia after the fall of France. Taking this game as an example – with Ottoman out the CP production was considerably reduced and they needed to rebuild their offensive points before going for Russia. The British army would be fully deployed to Russia (with some corps to Italy and 2 at home to cover the ports obviously the additionally US corps on the Eastern front in 1916 would have had a real if still secondary impact, by 1917 the combined Russian-American counteroffensive in the East would have had real punch and by 1918 they would have the greatest and strongest army in the world in action. This game would have either resulted in a complete Central power victory with the conquest of Russia or the Americans could single-handed have crushed them by 1919 with an army almost an order of magnitude greater them what they send historically.

You underestimate the compound interest effect of the US production multiplier starting low and ramping up every turn after entry

I really regret we won’t get to see it. Once the US is in the war they produce just under 2 monster corps pr turn from the start with the production gradually increasing after 3 years the out produce just about everyone else combined. I had the US at 100% after 3 years against the AI and they were a monster. It is an almost exponential grown - they start of so slowly that one is lulled into a false sense that they are insignificant since they matter little for the first year, the second year they become a real if secondary factor factor, the 3rd they are a first rate combatant and if they ever get to the fourth they are hands down the most formidable of all.

I agree that historically the US impact was minor military although they did have a significant impact on entante morale (Is that modelled in the game BTW?)

Eubanana any chance I could challenge you to a game with no Central Powers political commitment on the US?

[hjaco]

[quote]
If the US enters in mid 1915 they will play a non-trivial supporting role in blunting the 1916 offensive against Russia after the fall of France.
[quote]

Quite optimistic and pessimistic observation at the same time [;)]

My statement from our game is with French surrender in march 1915 (inevitable) and German again at full strength at the same time with rebuilding of OP already in progress and being next to Minsk after having isolated everything west of that, Germany had 1 to 1 1/2 years without much disturbance to concentrate on getting those 5 hexes further east.

Besides you don't really believe that CP wouldn't have countered diplomacy points in America with that alarming progress ? So USA would not have entered in 1915 anyway in our game.

We disagree and so be it - we must solve the matter on the battlefield at a later time. Or even better let Eubanana do it. Apparantly he needs a whipping boy - it seems that Blackhorse likes using the whip himself [:D]

[ulver]

Yes but the damage was already done. Even if you had already bought the diplomatic points and spend the every turn to counter mine you are still looking at a late 1915 early 1916 entry. Somewhat under one year of normal progress would see them there.

I don’t disagree that you had an excellent chance of winning on knockout – my point was simply that if you failed to do so there was no chance of a draw with the US. It really was victory or Death for Germany: I’d say fifty-fifty

But then with you I’m detecting a pattern…..

[hjaco]

Let's close it here and call the argument a draw shall we [;)]

[EUBanana]

The game ends if Russia and France both surrender. 

If France goes in 1915, I can't see how the end will be any different whether the US is involved or not.  It takes 2 years for the US to become a major pain in the ass.  Note that the US has 10 industial potential, so its basically another France, is all, even when it is roaring away after 2 years.

2 years to trash Russia mostly undisturbed = not a problem.
Even if the US is around, if France is gone, I think its game over.

Hence why I think that in the early days at least, its not a wise move to spend industrial points on diplomatic actions.  If you spent one industry every turn until the latter half of 1915, say, thats costing you about two full corps worth of infantry.  Given you need every man you can get, I think thats a significant drawback for something which will only pay you back in a very, very long game.

[Joel Rauber]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

The game ends if Russia and France both surrender.

. . .

Or if Germany only surrenders[;)]