Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464

[Mike Solli]

Next installment - Ship allocations:

Before I discuss this, let me clarify a few things. I'm really anal. I start with the historical Combined Fleet OOB and modify it from there. I allocate my fleet by ship (warships only, not merchant ships) by region. I have a spreadsheet of the Combined Fleet going so far as to color code the DD classes (makes identifying who needs upgrades easier). I'll show an example later.

Initially, the IJN fleet is scattered to the four winds. After the SRA is liberated, here's how I plan on disbursing my fleet to defend my deserved empire.

KB

based in Tokyo

6x CV
4x BB (the old BCs)
2x CA
1x CL
18x DD

1 Fleet (Battle Fleet)
based in the SRA

1x CVL (Zuiho and later, Shoho)
1x CVE (Hosho, later transferred to 3 Fleet when Shoho arrives)
6x BB (+Yamato & Musashi when they arrive)
8x CA
2x CL (Kitakami & Oi)
1x CL
20x DD
8x SS (I class including 2x Glen carrying)

2 Fleet (Saigon (later Singapore) based to defend the SRA)

3x CA
1x CL
16x DD
8x SS (6x I class & 2x Ro class) Will get 2x Glen carrying when built

3 Fleet (Truk Based, to support SE Fleet)

1x CVL (Ryujo + Hosho when Shoho arrives)
5x CA
3x CL
15x DD
19x SS (10x I class including 2 Glen carrying for South Central Pac and 9x Ro class later based out of Rabaul)

4 Fleet (Kwajalein based to support the Pacific)
Later, surface ships will withdraw to 3 Fleet AO and 3 Fleet will take over defense of this area)

3x CL (including Tatsuta & Tenryu)
8x DD
12x SS (I class including 7x Glen carrying)

5 Fleet (Northern Force)

2x CL
4x DD
6x SS (I class, will eventually get 3x Glen carrying when built)

Replenishment Force

7x AO (the 18 & 19 kt)
1x CL
8x DD

SS Minelayers

4x SS (I-121 class minelayers - distributed around the globe to lay mines seemingly at random to cause the maximum havoc. [:D])

[Mike Solli]

A little more discussion on fleet assignments:
 
Initially, KB is as described above.  They will be divided into 1-2 TFs as needed.  After the SRA is secured, I will expand KB to include all of the carriers, all 4 BBs, 6 CAs and 2 (later 3) DD Squadrons (1 CL & 16 DDs).  This will be the pool to form KBs as needed.  If all goes well, there will be ~5-6 carrier divisions (2 carriers each) with 1-2 KBs (each of 2 carrier divisions) deployed and the third KB upgrading/repairing in the Home Islands.  Each KB will include 23-25 ships composed of 2x CarDivs, 1 DesSqu and either 4 BBs -or- 2x CAs (Tones) -or- 4x CAs.  The idea eventually is to have a couple of KBs cruising around within supporting distance of each other ready to ambush Ted.  The 18-19 kt AOs will support KB almost exclusively.
 
1 Fleet (Battle Fleet) is going to spend most of the war stationed in the SRA, where the fuel is.  They will be allocated to various regions as needed.  The 12 kt. AOs will support them when needed and will haul oil/fuel when not supporting the Battle Fleet.  The subs attached will be used as a screen for their missions when possible.
 
2 Fleet (Singapore) will keep the RN in check, as well as the SRA.  There's not much of a fleet there, but that's all they get.  Air power will be the primary deterrant.  More on air power later.
 
3 Fleet (Truk/Rabaul) will support operations in the SE Fleet area and eventually the 4th Fleet.  They'll lose their carriers eventually (if they ever get them - depends on how quickly the SRA is secured).  The I class subs will recon to the SE of Truk.  The Ro class subs will be based out of Rabaul and will recon to the south.
 
4 Fleet (Central Pacific) will rather quickly lose it's surface ships, which will reinforce the 3 Fleet.  This will leave the 12 subs as the only offensive ship power remaining.  The 7 Glen carrying subs will provide an early warning screen.  The other 5 subs are the subs that can carry midget subs.  That will be their primary mission.  I don't expect much out of them, but it's always fun to drive Ted nuts. [:D] Note that at least one KB will pretty much always be in the area.
 
5 Fleet (Northern Area) is rather small.  The surface ships will support naval movements/invasions in the Aleutians.  Eventually, they will be withdrawn for other duties.  The 6 subs (hopefully reinforced to 9-12 eventually) will provide an early warning screen against any incursions from the north.  The 1 Fleet will provide forces to help defend this area, and air power will play a big part.
 
Minelaying subs will be scattered around to leave little presents for Ted to find with his ships.  I will conserve these guys and use them as mines become available.
 
Speaking of mines, I will use the mines I get primarily for defense of key positions I feel Ted really wants to capture.  I haven't put much thought into it yet but there's time.  I need to do an assessment of what ships carry what mine type, what's available and what the production rates are.

[Mike Solli]

Air Power

I allocate my air power based on HQ, which is even more important in AE.  Each HQ is given a region and mission.  Often, the IJAAF and IJNAF have overlapping regions but usually very different missions.

IJAAF

3 Air Division

This is a pretty hefty organization.  These guys will support the liberation of Malaya, Summatra, Northern Borneo and Northern Java.  A small slice will support an early incursion into Burma.  Eventually, they will support Burma, with some assets (primarily recon) guarding Summatra and Malaya.  Units will be rotated in and out to rebuild as needed.  Their primary missions are airfield and LBA bombardment, friendly airfield protection, recon (both land and sea), escort and sweep.

5 Air Division

This small organization will support the liberation of the Philippines, Southern Borneo, and south to Java and the Southern SRA.  They will guard Java and the Southern SRA, primarily through recon, CAP and limited escort of the few bomber assets they have available.  I will attempt to train up some of the light bombers as ASW platforms.  We'll see if that works....

1 Air Division (Home Islands)

Primarily training but the recon assets will do their job to prevent any sneaky ideas from Ted. [:-]

2 Air Division (Kwantung)

Primarily training with some naval recon/ASW along the coast from Pt. Arthur to Fusan.

China Expeditionary

Support of the effort in China.

IJNAF

21 Air Flotilla

Initially, they will (along with the 23 Air Flotilla) support the initial phase of the liberation of the Philippines.  Their primary mission (after 7 Dec) is to sink Allied ships.  They will very rarely (if ever) be used to attack airfields or ground troops.  Once the IJA is securely entrenched in the Philippines they will then support the effort along Southern Borneo to Java.  As long as Ted has an air presence in the Philippines, I'll leave a few Zeros there for a sweep mission.  After the SRA is secured, their mission will be an anti-naval mission in Java and the Southern SRA.

22 Air Flotilla

They will initially attempt to ambush Force Z as well as all other shipping around Malaya.  As soon as I secure Pt. Blair, this group will send recon and fighters to protect it.  Later, the entire flotilla will make it's home there as the primary defense from the RN.

23 Air Flotilla

Initially, they will (along with the 21 Air Flotilla) support the initial phase of the liberation of the Philippines.  After they are no longer needed  there, they will transfer to the SE Fleet area as the primary air offensive force in that region.

24 Air Flotilla

This organization will defend the Central Pacific.

12 & 13 Air Flotillas

This force's primary mission is to train replacements.  In addition, they will have a ready force in Northern Japan as an anti-ship strike force in case Ted gets frisky there.  The floatplanes will perform naval recon and ASW duties.

[jwilkerson]

In stock, I had evolved from originally using the "Mogami Method" (disbanding low count units into other low count units) to sustain high quality in the short run - to later just pulling units out of the line, filling them back up and training them up by "port bombing" dot bases. I'm really talking about fighters here - bombers are a different story.

But in AE, so far, I'm mostly using the Mogami method again, especially with disbanding smaller independent 9-12 plane Chutai into the larger Sentai/Datai. But the 120 day penalty is huge. If I get larger units that are gutted, I will pull them out and fill them up and train them with the "training" mission - but this has only happened once - to a bomber unit - so far. At least in AE I can "over fill" the on map unit with pilots so that by the time the unit gets trained up and ready for the front - it should at least not be too much under strength.

So point is that air unit training needs new strategies vis-a-vis stock.

[Mike Solli]

Joe, I'm stumped with pilot training in AE.  I'm curious as to what patch 2 is going to do with training, if anything.  There are rumors of reducing the turn around time (120 day thing) of disbanded units (although that may just be someone's wishful thinking).  There seem to be far fewer air units to mess with as well.  I hope the Allies are having this problem too.
 
I read your dissertation on fleets.  Very interesting.  I'm now reconsidering the basing of my battle fleet to try and find a more central location.  Ulithi maybe?  Not sure what the max port size is there.  I was simply thinking of locating it near the fuel source, but there seems to be a lot of xAK hulls that can be converted to TKs later.  Gotta mull this one over as well.

[Q-Ball]

I haven't done much so far, but I have used "fragment disband" to draw pilots from the Home Islands units, then re-fill the units stuck in Home Islands with rookies and set to train. It's harder in AE to get the right amount of "damage" to a unit to do this, and sending it along a rail line does no good. I set up a AF Co. at Matsuyama for this purpose, to "break" planes, not repair too many, and not have the broken ones follow via rail when the parent is flown off. Seems to work so far.

One side benefit from the unit withdrawls, is that those pilots go straight into fighter reserve. When that happens, I immediately drew them out to KB fighter units, while they are available. This is important as you expand Zero units on CVs and replace losses.

In general, so far:
*Put CV-capable LBA units on CV for a turn and set to "Resize" to max out on number of slots on unit, particularly for Feb '42 reinforcment units
*Use Home Island units as training units primarily, and use "fragment-disband" to pull pilots from these units
*"Overstaff" training units to increase number of pilots on training

I don't like pulling depleted front-line units, replenishing pilots, and training them. This isn't the most efficient method. There will still be some good pilots in the unit that are then effectively out of action, and it decreases front-line availability. I suspect it will be necessary at some point, particularly for the LBA Zero units, that compete with KB for veteran pilots, and there are not many Home Island slots for training.

I would like to avoid the 120-day disband; that's too long. It will take 120 days to get it back, plus another 2 months of on-map training to get mediocre. That's a 6-month cycle. We will probably lose every IJN fighter within a 6-month cycle once late '42 is in play.

This game is going to be rough for the late-war japanese player, I can tell!

[Mike Solli]

Q-Ball, very good advice.  Question though.  Do you break the unit by upgrading it?  If so, that probably won't work for me. I'm playing with PDU off.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Q-Ball, very good advice.  Question though.  Do you break the unit by upgrading it?  If so, that probably won't work for me. I'm playing with PDU off.

Yes, though a workaround is to load it onto an AK, then immediately unload it....that will "break" all the planes.

This method only works with two units equipped with the same plane though.

EDIT: That load on AK though won't work with the Home Island restricted units. You can't load them on a ship. Darn! It will work with everything else.

I suppose you could "break" the Home Island planes by marching the AF Co. out of the hex for a few days. That would also work.

Alot of work to get those pilots, but I think it's worth it....alot of good pilots in the Home Islands, particularly that big Kate Daitai; those pilots are all Vets.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Ahhh finally Mike's "Detailed OoB" AAR - Yummy! Subscribed!

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I don't like pulling depleted front-line units, replenishing pilots, and training them. This isn't the most efficient method. There will still be some good pilots in the unit that are then effectively out of action, and it decreases front-line availability.

I actually like having a small core (the cadre I call them) of good pilots in every unit - and actually they tend to be the ones that survival the repeated cycle of pull out, go to the rear, switch to "bad planes" train back up, fly near the front, switch to "good planes" head into the fight for a day or so and get gutted again, then pull out again to repeat!

Now if only that small cadre would help the "newbies" in the unit survive their first 10 missions more often!

[stldiver]

Not sure if its just my viewing experiance or just perception.

But units located at HQ or within range raise experiance faster then those not.

Most of my HQ's have plenty of supply. This may be a fishtail but some units on training not at HQ base or close raise slowly
and those at HQ raise faster. Then again I could be wrong.

btw. The one DD and AO that heads towards midway at beginning. Send someplace you need extra fuel it does get the 1st day jump
and I see fair number of JFB's forgetting this unit.

[Mike Solli]

It's worth a shot to keep the training units close to their HQ. 

[Mike Solli]

What do you guys think about the escorts that don't have DCs?  Is it worth using them before they get them?  I'm not sure.
 
Here's the list:
 
Class  #  Upgrade
Fubuki I DD  9  1/42  These guys will head to port after their initial mission is complete.
Mutsuki DD  12  2/42  Same here.
Tomozuru TB  4  3/42  Same here.
Otori TB  9  8/42  I'm planning on sending these guys to port at earliest opportunity and hope to remember to pull them out when they upgrade in August.
Hashidate E  3  2/43  These guys will rust away before they get DC racks. [8|] Fortunately, there are only 3.
Momi PC 5  6/42  I'll probably just stash them away as well.

[stldiver]

In combat the TB's are nasty like destroyers. Use them early to catch fleeing ships. I learned this from one of my current opponents. In my Japan game I kept them in port, my mistake.

I look at escorts in early going as strictly to keep the subs below surface so they don't use their guns which is sometimes more deadly in the early going. I also will only use 1 escort per convoy for this reason, as again the main point is keep the sub below.

The other anti sub factor that is most important. Have you planes on Naval search to spot subs so your convoys bypass. This will avoid most of the attacks.

[Mike Solli]

Good point, stldiver.  I really hate to not use a weapons system as the Japanese.  We have so little and get so little.  Maybe I'll use them in addition to an escort with DC racks.  I try to have every TF have some DC capability.  I would hate to have a TF come across an enemy sub and not be able to do anything but thumb their noses at it.  They rarely hit, but without any DC capability, they will never hit.

[Mike Solli]

Well, I finished the Chinese and am cleaning up loose ends.  I did do one thing of note.  I checked out all the carrier commanders and replaced several of them who definitely were not carrier commander material:
 
Soryu - air skill 36 - replaced with 68
Shokaku - air skill 26 [X(] - replaced with 65
Ryujo - air skill 31 - replaced with 64
Hosho - air skill 53 - replaced with 62
 
Not sure if the last one was necessary, but every little bit helps.  I figure it's worth the 7 PPs spent. 
 
I decided on using the Gds Bde for the Pt. Moresby invasion for a couple of reasons.  I don't want to send an entire division down there.  If I sent a regiment from Kwantung right away, I'd feel obligated to eventually send the rest (just a weird quirk, I guess [:D]).  That's way too many PPs to spend.  The Gds Bde costs ~650 PPs.  I currently have ~450 or so PPs.  I'll be able to send it in 3-4 days.  I have just about all of my unused xAPs headed to Tokyo, including all the fast ones.  I'll push it out to Truk as soon as possible.  I have it prepping for Pt. Moresby.  If it gets there soon enough, it might be able to help in the liberation of Rabaul.  (The 144 Reg is tasked with that mission.)

[Q-Ball]

90th Regt is an "orphan" Regt until 1943 or 44 I think, and is very high experience. It's somewhere in Manchuria, and is a cheap buy.

I also hate to break up divisions, but this particularly unit is on it's own, which is why I bought it. It's a good option if you are looking for boots, but don't have 1000 PPs for a division

[Mike Solli]

Very nice, Q-Ball.  90/90 exp/morale.  I like it.  Thanks!

[Mike Solli]

Well, I'm pretty sure I'm ready to start. Just waiting for patch 2 now so we can start. A few notes:

1. I have 365 TFs out there. That's over 100 more than I usually started in WitP. Many of them are ships headed off to another destination to be positioned for future missions.

2. I decided to go with the 90 Inf Reg to team up with the 144 Inf Reg (and some bn sized formations) for the invasion of PM. The 90 Inf Reg starts on the coast of Manchuoko broken down into 3 battalions. I've got some 21 kt xAPs headed there to transport them to Truk. They'll move in a couple of days. I was able to purchase the the regiment and still have 70 PP in the pool. Gotta think about what I'll need next.

3. Here are the house rules we decided on:
-Only dots/bases invaded
-Only Chunking gets max supply
-Max 5 artillery units per base (except for cornered situations)
-On 7 Dec, only existing (Allied) TF's get to move
-On 7 Dec, only one port attack
-Kwantung Army pays PPs to move out of borders

4. I decided to redirect the SNLF that was scheduled to invade Batan Island to Guam. It can get there in 1 day. It's sort of taking advantage of the magic move but it's pretty much the only change I'm making from the initial invasions.

Basic plans:

14 Army: Invasions are historical with the addition of as much infantry as I can muster (65 Bde and part of the 48 Div) which is loading for a landing at Lingayan. I'm also adding in air spt, engineers, artillery and AA. The Aparri II TF will be diverted to Lingayan as well (artillery, engineers, construction, and the 14 Army HQ). The 16 Div is still invading the southern peninsula but farther up the coast to cut off anyone farther down the coast. They are being supported by 21 and 23 Air Flotillas and 5 Air Division. In addition to the naval support in the area, they are being reinforced by Zuiho, Hosho, 4 BB, 2 CL (Oi and Kitakami), and 6 DD from the Home Islands.

15 Army: They are heading north for an early land invasion of Burma. The 33 Division will load onto APs and move to Bangkok where they will reinforce in a couple of weeks. They are supported by a small slice of the 3 Air Division (5-6 units). The 1 Raiding Unit is flying from the Home Islands to Thailand and will invade Pt. Blair as early as possible. I have allocated a construction battalion and a couple of avn spt units to fly in as soon as it's liberated. One SNLF paratroop bn is also available in this theater.

25 Army: These guys are invading Malaya, initially by land and by invading Kota Bahru (historical). Singora has 4 invasion TFs historically. The first (most of 5 ID and the 25 Army HQ) will land historically. Singora II (a tk reg, eng reg and avn spt bn) will also land historically. Singora III (a Nav Gd unit) may be diverted. Not yet sure. The Singora Follow-up is not accelerated and may be diverted to an invasion farther south. I would love to invade Mersing but that depends on the status of the RAF and Force Z. (I suspect that Ted will try to move Force Z out of harms way on 7 Dec. He likes to have that force in being that can come out of the mist to trash an invasion.) I am loading as much stuff as I can at Samah to move there. They are supported by the 22 Air Flotilla and 3 Air Division.

16 Army: This army is composed of the 38 and 2 Divisions. The 38 Div will most likely reinforce the Malayan invasion after Hong Kong is secured. The 2 Div will load from Sendai in a day or two and is slated to secure Mindinao, unless something more pressing comes up. There's time before that decision has to be finalized. My initial intent is to have the 16 Army (-) clear Mindinao, then Southern Borneo in preparation for the Southern SRA.

4 Fleet: The Naval Guard scheduled for Tarawa has been added to the Wake invasion force. The Wake Invasion Force will slowly make it's way to Wake, waiting for KB to pass by and for the 4 Furutaka class CAs to arrive as a bombardment force. Once Wake is secured, the SNLF (and supporting troops) will remain at Wake and the Naval Guard will head to Tarawa.

SE Fleet: The forces currently assigned here will start to take some of the bases between Truk and Rabaul, while waiting for the 144 and 90 Inf Reg. Here is a timeline for this theater:

1. Initial forces will begin to secure bases between Truk and Rabaul (Admiralty Islands and Kavieng at least).
2. Reinforcing naval units from Japan arrive (2 BB & escorts).
3. 4 CA and 4 DD arrives from Wake.
4. 144 Inf Regiment arrives.
5. Invasion of Rabaul.
6. Arrival of KB (-) (4 CV, 2 CA, CL, ~6 DD)
7. 23 Air Flotilla reassigned from Philippines.
8. 90 Inf Reg arrives.
9. Invasion of Pt. Moresby.
10. KB passes by Thursday Island to the SRA.

Now, we wait for the patch....

[fabertong]

Hi Mike......as always this is very illuminating.........I know I've asked this (sort of) before......but I'm also waiting for the patch....and haven't even started a turn one because I thought you needed to start the turn under patch 2....and not just patch before ending turn 1.......do you know which is right....I'd love to post some thoughts on my Turn one here.....but you-know-who might see......