Invasion of Japan

[Andy Mac]

Yup that was from the Downfall Scenario for WITP AE.
 
I am playing Japan and we are entering the decisive phase he landed on Kyushu twice but even though I lost 1600 aircraft in one day I managed to hit 4 Fleet Carriers with kamikazes and sink 3 Escort Carriers.
 
He has a Corps of Marines and Infantry stuck in the mountains of Southern Kyushu and just tried an end run to pocket 53rd Army int he mountains we are now racing to see whether I can Anzio his second landing or if he can break out.
 
All the time I need to watch for an invasion on the Tokyo plain so a lot of my strength is tied down

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd


...Unfortunately, there are others less versed in the art of debate who will join the thread and get it closed. Bet your last dollar on it.

And there they are Treale - right on q [:'(]

Warspite1

Boring isn't it?

This is one of those subjects that are always difficult, but one that you should still be able to have a robust, but ultimately civilised, debate about; but what happens? A question about possible losses should Olympic/Coronet have been launched is hijacked and swiftly (and predicatably) becomes a discussion on who was right or wrong, then quickly descends into rather charming mud-slinging about collaborating, disease spreading grandparents; racism against the Japanese nation, Islamophobia, 9-11 and blah blah blah.....Thread locked.

Yep - very boring...seems school is out.

What I really, really don't get is the repeat offenders are still allowed to post on these boards. The venom being spat from these kids mouths is outrageous on a family board

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Yep - very boring...seems school is out.

What I really, really don't get is the repeat offenders are still allowed to post on these boards. The venom being spat from these kids mouths is outrageous on a family board

No,
Boring is reading threads complaining about spam, seeing revisionists argue moral decisions made by our Grandfathers when the globe was at risk of enslavement is quite entertaining .

[doomtrader]

Take a look at what happend with Dresden and Warsaw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of ... rld_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising

Number of casualties should be enough to convince you that A-bomb was a right choice.

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

For those of you out there who are not American and therefore not part of "us", I apologize. Not all Americans think this way.

I also would've dropped the bomb to save our allies such as the nations in the British Commonwealth, too, if theirs were at stake. I'm also glad you don't run anything with the constant groveling.

And I'm so glad we have the usual, morally superior, non-partisans show up to repeatedly post about how the detest threads like this but just can't stop posting in them. And then join a circle jerk so the 'pivot-man' can relate how superior they are to the rest of the "kids" here. [8|]

[Doggie]

How come it only gets distastefull when somebody interupts the intellectual discussion on how much Americans suck and what a great thing 9/11 was?

Keep your self rightous anti American bigotry and ignorance to yourself and there won't be nobody reminding you what a bunch of amoral douche bags you are.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

And I'm so glad we have the usual, morally superior, non-partisans show up to repeatedly post about how the detest threads like this but just can't stop posting in them. And then join a circle jerk so the 'pivot-man' can relate how superior they are to the rest of the "kids" here. [8|]

Warspite1

NefariousKoel

I assume you are referring to me, and so will respond.

There have been three or four recent threads that have been locked because people can't keep to the rules that Matrix have set out. Most if not all these threads have been - or should have been - on interesting topics for discussion. However, said interesting discussion fails to take place or is cut short because one side or the other (or both) decides that its appropriate to cross a line.

The purpose of posting was made clear and you know it - nothing to do with trying to be "morally superior". But simply to act as reminders to people to back off before throwing in the next hand grenade and getting the thread locked. We've all done it - posting a remark we regret - and if you care passionately about something and you read someone else rubbishing that view - wrongly in your opinion - then its tempting to hit back. That fact does not make it right to use some of the phrases, words and accusations that have been seen recently - especially in what is a family friendly forum.

Doggie

Your assertion that it only become distasteful when someone tries to defend America is completely false - and btw, I may be many things, but anti-American is not one of them.

Oh, and because someone does not agree with you, it does not necessarily mean they are ignorant, amoral douche bags does it? May be they simply have a different view on things..

[Jevhaddah]

I seem to remember reading that the Japanese government were planning to have the civillian population fight off the Americans with any weapon that came to hand. If this is the case the loss of life would have been much higher if the bombs had not been dropped.

Having spent all that time and money developing the bomb and seeing how the Soviets were acting in Europe, there was, in my opinion no way the Bombs were NOT going to be used.

Cheers

Jev

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Take a look at what happend with Dresden and Warsaw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of ... rld_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising

Number of casualties should be enough to convince you that A-bomb was a right choice.

It's a tough call which is worse, being nuked or being burned alive. I tend to agree that the A bomb wasn't any more inherently evil than any other form of death. Maybe it was a "necessary evil", I don't know. It's a shame that civilians had become a "strategic" target in WW2. Both sides waged war against them. Let's just hope such a disaster never befalls humanity again. [:(]

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

... Reason for this was that the Bomb just was not anywhere near a deployable status in 1944; and by the end of 1944; it was obvious that the Germans were going to be defeated in a couple more months. So around that time planning shifted to Japan as the target.

Just an ahistorical thought: what if there was no Ardennes Offensive?

Instead, the Germans sucessfully defend against and delay the Allies in the West long enough for the US to finish its A-bomb development.

With the "Germany First" approach still in place from the beginning of the war, IMO, Nazi Germany would have been the first beligerent to be A-bombed.

[SireChaos]

Your assertion that it only become distasteful when someone tries to defend America is completely false - and btw, I may be many things, but anti-American is not one of them.

You´re not a US citizen, and you disagree with a self-anointed US patriot - hence you are automatically anti-American, in the eye of self-anointed US patriots. Been there, done that, got painted as a Nazi (in my case, for suggesting that the British terror bombing campaign might have been sub-optimal as a tool for winning the war).

Oh, and because someone does not agree with you, it does not necessarily mean they are ignorant, amoral douche bags does it? May be they simply have a different view on things..

Why would anyone have a different view of things than a self-anointed US patriot? Everybody knows that their view is the only correct and ethical view in the world, so anyone who disagrees with them does so out of sheer anti-American spitefulness and villainy.

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Just an ahistorical thought: what if there was no Ardennes Offensive?

Instead, the Germans sucessfully defend against and delay the Allies in the West long enough for the US to finish its A-bomb development.

With the "Germany First" approach still in place from the beginning of the war, IMO, Nazi Germany would have been the first beligerent to be A-bombed.

One could say, in this regard we lost the war in due time. [8D]

Anyway, I think if the US didn't drop the bomb, it had led to another year of attrition warfare and maybe end with a stalemate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the congress about to revoke financial support?

[SLAAKMAN]

The Bomb shouldve been used, but not on Japan. They were on the ropes and their fleet was decimated beyond repair. Instead we shouldve dropped Little Boy on the Grozny oil fields first followed by Fatman on the Baku oil fields in the Soviet Union. As evidenced by the Rakovsky interrogation, Roth Schild (the Freemason Cult of the Red Banner) & their puppets (the Soviet Union at that time) were (and Roth Schild still is) the greatest threat to humanity in history;

Rothschilds Conduct "Red Symphony"
http://www.savethemales.ca/000275.html
Incredible and bizarre as it sounds, humanity is indeed the victim of a diabolical conspiracy.

War, depression and genocide in the past century were not accidental or inevitable but the result of malevolent design.

Shocking evidence is a 1938 Stalinist police (NKVD) interrogation of a founder of the Communist International, Christian G. Rakovsky, 65, who was facing execution for plotting to overthrow Stalin.

The 50-page transcript of his interrogation, dubbed "The Red Symphony," was not meant to become public. It confirms that the Rothschild-Illuminati planned to use Communism to establish a world dictatorship of the super rich.

This is perhaps the most explosive political document in modern history. It reveals why the Illuminati created Hitler and then sought to destroy him, and why Stalin made a pact with Hitler in 1939.

Christian Rakovsky was a veteran Communist insider. Born Chaim Rakeover in 1873, he studied medicine in France before becoming a revolutionary. He was the leader of a terror group that attacked government officials.

In 1919, Lenin put him in charge of the Soviet Ukraine government. He successfully kept the area for the Bolsheviks during the Civil War. Stalin appointed him Russian ambassador to Paris in 1925.

Rakovsky belonged to the powerful Trotskyite faction that took their orders from the Rothschilds. Many of this group were shot in Stalin's 1937 Communist Party purge.


MIDNIGHT INTERROGATION

The circumstances of the midnight interrogation Jan. 26, 1938 were very dramatic.

What could Rakovsky possibly say to save his life?

Rakovsky appears to use the tactic of "deceiving with the truth." He wins trust by revealing the truth but leaves some of it out. He tries to impress his interrogator that he and Trotsky represent an invincible power he calls the "Capitalist-Communist Financial International."

He confirms that the "revolutionary movement" was designed to enlist support by pretending to serve mankind's moral and collective ideals. The real aim however is to give total world power to the bankers by dividing society and undermining established authority.

"Revolution" really means, "overturning" Western civilization.

"Christianity is our only real enemy since all the political and economic phenomena of the bourgeois states are only its consequences," Rakovsky, says. (Griffin, p. 264)

Peace is "counter-revolutionary" since it is war that paves the way for revolution.

Rakovsky, whose tongue was loosened by a mild inebriant in his wine, refers to the Illuminati as "they" or "them." He is a member although not part of the inner circle.

He explains that the "Illuminati" is a Masonic secret society dedicated to Communism. Significantly, its founder Adam Weishaupt took the name from "the second anti-Christian conspiracy of that era, gnosticism." (249)


HOW THIS GRIPPING ACCOUNT SURFACED


The interrogator was one of Stalin's cleverest agents, Gavriil Kus'min known as "Gabriel."

Apart from him and a hidden sound technician, a doctor Jose Landowsky was the only other person present.

Conscripted by the NKVD to help "loosen the tongues of detainees," Dr. Landowsky was sickened by the many tortures he witnessed.

The interrogation of Rakovsky, however, was cordial. Dr. Landowsky doubts if the mild euphoric he put in Rakovsky's drink had much effect.

The interrogation, conducted in French lasted from midnight until 7 a.m. After, Kus'min ordered Landowsky to translate the interview into Russian and make two copies.

The content was so mind boggling that Landowsky made an additional carbon for himself. "I am not sorry that I had the courage for this," he wrote. (279) (The Bolsheviks had shot Landowsky's father, a Tsarist colonel, during the 1917 revolution.)

A Spanish Fascist volunteer later found the manuscript on Landowsky's dead body in a hut on the Petrograd front during World War Two. He took it back to Spain where it was published as "Sinfonia en Rojo Mayo." in 1949.

The complete text of "The Red Symphony" was put online by Peter Myers.

The transcript was published in English in 1968 as "The Red Symphony: X-Ray of Revolution." You can find it in Des Griffin's "Fourth Reich of the Rich." (1988) I recommend this book and everything this fine man has written.


REVELATIONS

Rakovsky gives his interrogator an astonishing inside view of modern history in order to prove that his sponsors control the world.

"Money is the basis of power," Rakovsky says, and the Rothschilds manufacture it thanks to the banking system.

The "Revolutionary Movement" was an attempt by Meyer Rothschild and his allies to protect and extend this monopoly by establishing a totalitarian New World Order.

According to Rakovsky, "The Rothschilds were not the treasurers, but the chiefs of that first secret Communism...Marx and the highest chiefs of the First International ... were controlled by Baron Lionel Rothschild, [1808-1878] whose revolutionary portrait was done by Disraeli the English Premier, who was also his creature, and has been left to us [in Disraeli's novel 'Coningsby.']" (250)

Lionel's son Nathaniel (1840-1915) needed to overthrow the Christian Romanoff Dynasty. Through his agents Jacob Schiff and the Warburg brothers, he financed the Japanese side in the Russo Japanese War, and an unsuccessful insurrection in Moscow in 1905. Then he instigated the First World War (Trotsky was behind the murder of Archduke Ferdinand) ;and financed the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. Rakovsky says he was personally involved in the transfer of funds in Stockholm. (251-252)

The Jewish labour movement or "bund" was Rothschild's instrument. The Bund's "secret faction" infiltrated all the socialist parties in Russia and provided the leadership for the Russian Revolution. Alexander Kerensky, the Menshevik Prime Minister was a secret member. (253)

Leon Trotsky was supposed to become the leader of the USSR. Trotsky, a Jew, married the daughter of one of Rothschild's closest associates, banker Abram Zhivotovsky and became part of the "clan."

Unfortunately "national" Communists like Lenin (one-quarter Jewish) got in the way. Lenin overruled Trotsky and made peace with Germany (Treaty of Brest Litovsk, 1918.) This was not the Rothschild's plan.

World War One was supposed to end the way the Second World War did. Russia was supposed to overrun Germany in 1918 and assist local "revolutionaries" in establishing a "peoples' republic."

Trotsky was responsible for an attempt to assassinate Lenin in 1918 but Lenin survived. When Lenin had a stroke in 1922, Trotsky had Levin, Lenin's Jewish doctor, finish him off.

At this critical moment, the unexpected happened. Trotsky got sick and Stalin was able to take power. At this crucial juncture, the Trotskyites pretended to support Stalin and infiltrated his regime in order to sabotage it.

Rakowsky characterizes Stalin as a "Bonapartist," a nationalist as opposed to an International Communist like Trotsky.

"He is a killer of the revolution, he does not serve it, but makes use of its service; he represents the most ancient Russian imperialism, just as Napoleon identified himself with the Gauls..." (257)


CONTAINING STALIN

In order to control Stalin, international finance was forced to build up Hitler and the Nazi party. Rakowsky confirms that Jewish financiers backed the Nazis although Hitler was not aware of this.

"The ambassador Warburg presented himself under a false name and Hitler did not even guess his race... he also lied regarding whose representative he was... Our aim was to provoke a war and Hitler was war...[the Nazis] received...millions of dollars sent to it from Wall Street, and millions of marks from German financiers through Schacht; [providing] the upkeep of the S.A and the S.S. and also the financing of the elections..." (259-260)

Unfortunately for the bankers, Hitler also proved intractable. He started to print his own money!

"He took over for himself the privilege of manufacturing money and not only physical moneys, but also financial ones; he took over the untouched machinery of falsification and put it to work for the benefit of the state... Are you capable of imagining what would have come ...if it had infected a number of other states and brought about the creation of a period of autarchy [absolute rule, replacing that of the bankers]. If you can, then imagine its counterrevolutionary functions..." (263)

Hitler had become a bigger threat than Stalin, who had not meddled with money. Rakovsky's present mission was to convince Stalin to make a pact with Hitler and turn Hitler's aggression against the West. The purpose was for Germany and the Western nations to exhaust each other before another front was opened in the East.

[According to Walter Kravitsky, the head of Soviet Military Intelligence in Europe who defected to the West and was later assassinated in 1941, Stalin was determined to make a pact with Hitler as early as 1934. He had no desire to fight the Nazis. Is it possible Rakovsky and his sponsors did not know this? Kravitsky On Stalin's Secret Service (1939)]

Rakovsky urged the Russians to use the tactic of "deceiving with the truth." The Russians were to impress Hitler with their genuine desire for peace. Hitler was not to suspect that he was being set up for a war on two fronts.

Stalin was given a choice. If he agreed to divide Poland with Hitler, the West would declare war on only one aggressor, Germany. If he refused, the bankers would allow Hitler to depose him.

Kus'min demanded some high level confirmation. Rakovsky told him to see Joseph Davies, the US ambassador in Moscow, a fellow Freemason and representative of the International Communist Roosevelt administration.

Someone was sent to Davies who confirmed that "much would be gained" if Rakovsky got an amnesty. On March 2, 1938, a powerful radio message was sent to Moscow in the cipher of its London embassy.

"Amnesty or the Nazi danger will increase," it said. Davies attended Rakovsky's trial and gave him a Masonic greeting. On the same day, March 12, 1938, Hitler marched into Austria.

Rakovsky's death sentence was commuted. Some believe he lived out his years under an assumed name. Another source has him shot in 1941.

Secret negotiations were begun with Hitler. The result was the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact signed in August 1939 just one week before the invasion of Poland.

The interrogation seems to have created an accord between Stalin and the Illuminati.


RUSSIA STRUGGLES IN ROTHSCHILD CLUTCH


Europe and the United States long ago succumbed to Rothschild Illuminati control. In Russia, there are still some death spasms.

Recently, Vladimir Putin arrested Mikhail Khordordovsky, the head of Russia's largest oil company "Yukos" and "the richest man in Russia."

Putin announced that Russia would seize his $12 billion 26% stake in the oil company, one of many national assets plundered in the reorganization of Communism 15 years ago.

Then we learn the shares already had passed to none other than banker Jacob Rothschild under a "previously unknown arrangement" designed for such a circumstance. The two have known each other for years "through their mutual love of the arts."

Rakovsky told Kus'min that the Illuminati never take political or financial positions. They use "intermediaries."

"Bankers and politicians are only men of straw.... even though they occupy high places and appear to be authors of the plans which are carried out..." (248-249)

Obviously Khodordovsky is an "intermediary" for Rothschild. So are Richard Perle, Henry Kissinger and Ariel Sharon who each spoke out against Putin's action. Perle, the architect of the Iraq war, called for the expulsion of Russia from the Group of Eight. Sharon expressed concern about "persecution of Jewish businessmen." Khodordovsky is Jewish as is Simon Kukes his successor. And Perle and Kissinger.

Many Jews serve the Illuminati and that is a cause of anti-Semitism. But Tony Blair and George W. Bush serve it too and are not Jewish. The membership of the Bilderbergers and the Skull and Bones is mostly not Jewish. The Illuminati is an alliance between the Rothschilds, and the world's super rich united by Freemasonry, whose God is Lucifer.

Mankind, God's magnificent experiment, has been subverted and compromised. From the U.S. soldier in Iraq, to the taxpayer who pays the national debt, we are all "men of straw."

[Yogi the Great]

[Doggie]

I assume you are referring to me, and so will respond.

There have been three or four recent threads that have been locked because people can't keep to the rules that Matrix have set out.

Yeah. some of you misanthropes just can't keep your mouth shut about how much America sucks, and how pleased you are that Americans got what they deserved on 9/11, and how kewl it would be if more of us died.

You will pardon us if we disagree with your enlightened opinions about how we should all share your in your adoration of fascist regimes.

ORIGINAL: SireChaos




You´re not a US citizen, and you disagree with a self-anointed US patriot - hence you are automatically anti-American, in the eye of self-anointed US patriots. Been there, done that, got painted as a Nazi (in my case, for suggesting that the British terror bombing campaign might have been sub-optimal as a tool for winning the war).

Been where and done what? While you were in your dorm room smoking dope beneath posters of Che Guevara, Americans were dyingdoing what you wouldn't do for yourself If it weren't for self appointed U.S. patriots, you'd be standing in a que for six hours waiting on your weekly ration of sawdust bread.

You're welcome by the way. Even if you weren't worth the effort, I couldn't buy my own beer in Naturpark Rhoen because thousands of other Germans who knew what the Russians were capable of appreciated the blood and treasure Americans contributed of their own free will to keep your people out of concentration camps and collective farms.

[RyanCrierie]

Just an ahistorical thought: what if there was no Ardennes Offensive?

Instead, the Germans sucessfully defend against and delay the Allies in the West long enough for the US to finish its A-bomb development.

Very good question. Historically, the bomb approached deployability in July 1945 after Trinity proved the implosion type bomb would work.

However, I can't see Germany lasting into August 1945, because even if they didn't activicate Wacht am Rhein; the temptation to use the men, tanks, guns and fuel stockpiled for the Ardennes against the Soviets in the East would be too much.

So you've gained a week or two; Germany surrenders on 15 or 25 May 1945 instead of on 8 May.

In order for Germany to last into at least August 1945 with a credible chance of of being nuked to shorten the war; you need to go back to 1942 and 1943.

In 1942; Speer needs to at least convince industrial leaders of the need for more simplification across production lines -- take a look at the Panzer IV; that notched turret front looks cool, but it add shot traps, and increases the complexity of assembly, as you have more weld lines to do.

You can't simplify things that much; due to the need to maintain legacy production lines -- something that shuts the line down for a weekend as part of a re-tooling process is acceptable -- something that shuts it down for a week or more is unacceptable -- the US for example, refused to allow the P-38K into production due to the couple of weeks the line would have been shut down to change over tooling.

But if you can increase the rate of production with minor changes and simplification by a couple of units each day; in the two years from 1942 to 1944 (before allied bombing made production increasingly impossible); you can produce about 1,400 extra units.

In 1943; Kursk needs to not go off. This can actually be achieved with minor butterflies. Hitler was already quite uneasy about Kursk -- he said as much to his Generals; so him changing his mind is actually quite feasible.

The Zitadelle offensive lost Germany 54,000 men, 300 AFVs, 159 aircraft and 500 guns. It also opened up German forces to the planned Soviet counterattacks because the units had burned through their stocks of fuel and ammunition in the failed offensive; as well as shattering their cohesiveness through combat losses.

If they don't carry out the attack; they can be on the defensive and in a much better condition to meet the Soviet offensives and at least blunt them; and buy Germany about six to nine more months of life -- enough to be nuked.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Doggie

I assume you are referring to me, and so will respond.

There have been three or four recent threads that have been locked because people can't keep to the rules that Matrix have set out.

Yeah. some of you misanthropes just can't keep your mouth shut about how much America sucks, and how pleased you are that Americans got what they deserved on 9/11, and how kewl it would be if more of us died.

You will pardon us if we disagree with your enlightened opinions about how we should all share your in your adoration of fascist regimes.

Warspite1

Please tell me where on these forums (or any other) I have ever been anti-American.

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: Doggie

You're welcome by the way. Even if you weren't worth the effort, I couldn't buy my own beer in Naturpark Rhoen because thousands of other Germans who knew what the Russians were capable of appreciated the blood and treasure Americans contributed of their own free will to keep your people out of concentration camps and collective farms.

Alright, I'll bite.

You conceal the fact that without American land lease we probably kicked the Sovjets into oblivion and even if not, Germany had been still able to enforce a stalemate in '44, without fighting Normandy invasion at the same time. It was previous US interference which made later US protection neccessary.

Now feel free to flame as usual, I don't care. But don't tell any rubbish about German people worshipping Che Guevara or smoking dope, while American patriots defended their freedom.

[Doggie]

Gee, Lutzlow, Should I apologize because The Glorious Third Reich ended because of ".American interference"? Aint gonna happen. I volunteered to defend Germany against a fascist regime just as bad as the Third Reich, but I aint gonna apologize for goosesteepers like you who think National Socialism was a good thing.

And it's only jungen like you don't appreciate how lucky they were to be in the American sector after the war. Like I said, in 1973 my money was no good in just about any bierhall in Bavaria. Not the same for your pals from France and Russia. Of course I never hated Germans like you hate Americans. The way I see it, there were plenty of decent people in Germany worth saving.

[axisandallies]

Lutzow...
I enjoy all things German...it's sad that 2000 years of history is forgotten because of thirteen years of Nazi evil. I cannot change that...it is what it is. The A-bomb was used to end a world war and used to prevent yet another one. At the time it was the right thing to do. Alot of Americans would not be here if we invaded Japan.