Holy cow John Tiller has gone digital: Kharkov 43

[Yogi the Great]

As far as the rest of you ??????



As old antiquated behind the times person who also isn't too bad at computers

I still like having the CD
I don't care for Digital Download Only
I like the idea Matrix often uses of offering both
I don't like having to have Internet accounts to play a game
I do like being able to get internet patch fixes (Even though the game should have been released without the need for patches to begin with)
I do like to be able buy from more then one source (competition price control)
I already can't find many computer games I like in the stores among all the Wii, playstation, x-box junk
I appreciate the games from Tiller/HPS as among my favorites just as I appreciate Matrix

[E]

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01

Every Matrix title I own is a digital download. You dont see me bitching.

You're arguing your opposition's point. Matrix is a shining example of non-intrusive DRM that doesn't punish the customer just to temporarily inconvenience pirates.

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01
Every Battlefront Title I own is a digital download. Are they going out of business too?

Let's put it this way... "Big Time Software" did (for all intents and purposes).
(if you miss that connection, you may not be in a position to thoroughly debate this issue).

[Adam Parker]

E, do you remember this post of yours earlier this year?

JULY THIS YEAR: E

If anybody gets Crusader working, please let me know how... I tried and tried and tried several years ago... it's one of a few games I can no longer run.

So owning a disc rather than digitially downloading will not guarantee you a successfully running program whenever you want it as you claim.

Your argument about DRM is also about 5 hours overtaken by events. The company has adjusted its DRM policy.

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

I do like to be able buy from more then one source (competition price control)

Very interesting point. NWS a great supporter of HPS and a catalyst for communication regarding its games, looks to be cut out of the loop now doesn't it?

[Yogi the Great]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

I do like to be able buy from more then one source (competition price control)

Very interesting point. NWS a great supporter of HPS and a catalyst for communication regarding its games, looks to be cut out of the loop now doesn't it?

Yes I was wondering about that. While $39.95 sounds good to some and is about $10 less then the usual HPS regular price for games (same as usual HPS introductory price) I usually purchased from NWS where the usual price for an HPS game is $29.99.

[Lützow]

I'n not against digital distributions, actually it can be more convenient if you live on the other side of the pond. Was considering to purchase Kharkov eventually, until I got informed about the DRM. I never had to re-download a Matrix title (always burn it on DVD's) and don't play on more than one computer, but it's good to know that it would be possible at least. On the other hand, I still fire JTCS every now and then, and installed/deleted it about a dozen times over the years, without having to worry about limited activations. If Matrix can refrain from DRM and run a succesful business over 10 years, other wargame distributors could do as well.

Aside of the dreaded DRM, JTS don't maintain a customer support to handle inevitable arising technical or store issues. What happens if somebody struggles with the activation scheme, a purchase didn't work or got double billed? Means that the customer either has to post on gamesquad.com, send a mail to this 3 guys and hope it will get answered in due time, or try to void the transaction over Paypal. Good luck with finding faithful customers, myself I won't send money to this store.

[E]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

E, do you remember this post of yours earlier this year?

JULY THIS YEAR: E

If anybody gets Crusader working, please let me know how... I tried and tried and tried several years ago... it's one of a few games I can no longer run.

So owning a disc rather than digitially downloading will not guarantee you a successfully running program whenever you want it as you claim.

No one said there were any guarantees that it will run. Just the opposite... that it's guaranteed NOT to run if they disappear as soooooo many companies have in the past decades. For instance all their other titles DO run fine here and I can guarantee they wouldn't if they used a phone-home DRM.

Please also take note of the implication of the quoted words "one of the FEW"... I've spent A LOT of money over the past decades. I expect to be able to use those programs I still like* at any time with no regard to a company's survival or my internet connection being up.

* Note I still freely admit to being a retro-gamer who still plays games dating back to the early 80's.

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Your argument about DRM is also about 5 hours overtaken by events. The company has adjusted its DRM policy.

My argument was against it (and the ancient Norton *grin*). Are you saying Tiller's done away with it completely? If he has, that's great news to find out he's not just slapping customers in the face to temporarily inconvenience pirates!

If you only refer to the "two machines" DRM policy stated above, my arguments are completely unaffected.

[Adam Parker]

E if you are referring to the limited number of times you can load the game regardless of machines in total, I agree with you.

It's a stupid, antiquated thing and I firmly believe that if I buy a game, I then own it to load or keep as I wish. Limited to 1 or 2 machines at a time? I can live with that but I shouldn't need to get permission to unlock my access to it so long as I am complying.

Try to be clearer next time in your points rather than sarcastic and you'll save us all time in getting our thoughts across [:D]

Cheers,
Adam.

[E]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Try to be clearer next time in your points rather than sarcastic

Can't do that with a setup like a comparison of DRM levels to Norton. Sorry. Can't be done. It's just not cricket. It's against the laws of physics (nature abhors a vacuum). *grin*

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
and you'll save us all time in getting our thoughts across [:D]

I'll try to type faster for you the next time! *big grin*

[V22 Osprey]

This DRM is just as bad as eLicense at Battlefront.

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01

You have to take steps to prevent piracy.

Well, this would have been valid point if it wasn't for the fact that all these fancy DRMs does NOTHING to stop the pirates. I pay my hard earned money for limited installs and intrusive DRM yet the pirate has more ownership of the game. The only thing DRM is blocking is paying customers.

[sabre1]

+1 V22

[dudalb_slith]

I think few of us object to Digital Download; it is the DRM which is turning people off.
If I decide I do not want to pay the extra Ten Bucks for a Hard copy from Matrix, I can back up my download on a DVD-R which I do (with the serial number in a notepad document stored on the same DVD); The game is mine forever. With the scheme Tiller is using, if his venture fails and he goes out of business then I up S--t creek .

[rahamy]

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Aside of the dreaded DRM, JTS don't maintain a customer support to handle inevitable arising technical or store issues. What happens if somebody struggles with the activation scheme, a purchase didn't work or got double billed? Means that the customer either has to post on gamesquad.com, send a mail to this 3 guys and hope it will get answered in due time, or try to void the transaction over Paypal. Good luck with finding faithful customers, myself I won't send money to this store.

I handle Support for JTS (and HPS) and have for about a decade now - I average less than 24 hours on responses and more often than not less than an hour from the time the message is received. Ask anyone who deals with HPS Support about what kind of service they get, you'll get the same from JTS.

And, we are working on a forum, blog, etc. - but this is a start up and not a multi-million dollar enterprise - so please give us some time. [8D]

The people involved with this endeavor have a very long track record of providing world class support to our products, both in responsivenees and free updates - and I don't say that lightly. My day job is in IT and we provide much better support than the vast majority of our vendors.

[boatrigm]

Well, for me, anything that limits the number of installs or activations is a no buy for me regardless of how well support is or how great the game is. That's why Matrix and GOG get my money. I'm sure others feel like I do. If a patch comes out like with HPS Mexican American war then I will buy. I think it's great that JT's games are going digital download but I like the serial number DRM that Matrix uses.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

It's tiring listening to people speak from a totally under informed position.

Just because you have a plastic disc in your hands, does not mean you own anything.

You only own the plastic disc, the software on it was never ever yours to begin with.

The creator has not sold it to you in any fashion. Maybe you might want to actually read an EULA fully sometime. Yes, I know, they're boring to read.

Now it's obvious to even the most dim of minds, that John certainly can't realistically actually expect to deny the use of the software should he wish to.

The only reason for physical delivery in this day of incredibly powerful disc burning drives, is if the user is a complete and total dimwit, or merely lazy on an epic scale.

HPS uses DRM by the way, it is merely useless. DRM = any form of protection including the ones that work so poorly that they are a joke. Disc in drive is DRM for instance. And theirs is particularly worthless. So lame I was not aware it was there till someone mentioned it was.
Serials is DRM, and it just happens that the way Matrix Games/Slitherine sells installers coupled with serials just happens to make us happy. It's DRM that is effective, yet not annoying.
Battlefront uses DRM sufficiently annoying I refuse to buy their games. It's not harmful like the feature favourite Starforce, but it sucks loud enough to kill my interest.
I've used Steam, and while I don't hate, it, I'd rather not have to.

I applaud John going to digital download.
I groan it is limiting on installs. But I can live with that.
Going online to activate, can be a hassle. Just as long as their is no 'Steam' aspect, it's all cool.
I don't like his games enough to indulge Steam though.

I like Civ V enough to tolerate Steam. But then I play Civ V intensely for a day when bored, and then uninstall. Steam is not normally allowed on my computer when I can avoid it.

Going to digital download, will assist gamers in far off international locations. This is a good thing. Physical delivery often equates to massive shipping obstacles. And for what, so some can pretend it allows them to 'own' the game?
I have never 'owned' a game more so, all for having a game mailed to me in a pretty box.

[junk2drive]

ORIGINAL: rahamy

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Aside of the dreaded DRM, JTS don't maintain a customer support to handle inevitable arising technical or store issues. What happens if somebody struggles with the activation scheme, a purchase didn't work or got double billed? Means that the customer either has to post on gamesquad.com, send a mail to this 3 guys and hope it will get answered in due time, or try to void the transaction over Paypal. Good luck with finding faithful customers, myself I won't send money to this store.

I handle Support for JTS (and HPS) and have for about a decade now - I average less than 24 hours on responses and more often than not less than an hour from the time the message is received. Ask anyone who deals with HPS Support about what kind of service they get, you'll get the same from JTS.

And, we are working on a forum, blog, etc. - but this is a start up and not a multi-million dollar enterprise - so please give us some time. [8D]

The people involved with this endeavor have a very long track record of providing world class support to our products, both in responsivenees and free updates - and I don't say that lightly. My day job is in IT and we provide much better support than the vast majority of our vendors.

I will give kudos to Rich and Glenn for support and information. I see them on various websites as much as Eric.

It makes a difference to me anyway.

[Yogi the Great]

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

The only reason for physical delivery in this day of incredibly powerful disc burning drives, is if the user is a complete and total dimwit, or merely lazy on an epic scale.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

see Erik's comment

[Lützow]

Well, I liked those big boxes with printed manuals and take pride in the few ones which are still in my possession.

Was writing a wall of text, but ditched this again as it's simply not worth the hassle. To put in a nutshell: DRM + limited activations = no purchase.

[sabre1]

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

The only reason for physical delivery in this day of incredibly powerful disc burning drives, is if the user is a complete and total dimwit, or merely lazy on an epic scale.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

see Erik's comment

Yep I'm right there with you Yogi.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

E if you are referring to the limited number of times you can load the game regardless of machines in total, I agree with you.

It's a stupid, antiquated thing and I firmly believe that if I buy a game, I then own it to load or keep as I wish. Limited to 1 or 2 machines at a time? I can live with that but I shouldn't need to get permission to unlock my access to it so long as I am complying.

Re my quote to E above, I have adjusted my original post I made earlier too.

I do believe that once I buy a game I should have no restrictions on how many times I load it and unload it.

However, I remember why I first posted that this wasn't such a big issue. Bascially I assumed that if anyone needed to load the game more than 10 times, that would just be an unsual thing.

Point is, so what? Maybe some people will need to do this often? Thing is JTS shouldn't need to know. I want my only contact with a game company to be:

1. Is my software legal? If so you can activate it for me.
2. Are there any new patches? If so give them to me.
3. Do I have any questions? If so answer them for me.
4. Can I talk to others about the game? If so what is the best forum?

Otherwise, "you" don't need to know anything more about me other than possibly knowing my billing details.

So I still hope that people heartily support this new venture. I posted a question at the support site re some shopping questions. I just received a reply from Rich Hamilton well under 24 hours. He's the type of guy that I want behind my purchases.

Cheers,
Adam.

[E]

ORIGINAL: rahamy

The people involved with this endeavor have a very long track record of providing world class support to our products, both in responsivenees and free updates - and I don't say that lightly.

Then you would be the one to ask directly... why this form of DRM, when Matrix' serial appears to be sufficient for earlier Tiller titles and even HPS is removing theirs from more current Tiller's titles?