OT-CyberPower gaming PCs

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Instead of processors the gaming game is all about graphics cards.

GPU's are as important a choice as the processor. However Sandy Bridge may change all that. 8GB is fine at the moment if one goes 64bit O/S. However new systems are pushing 12-16Gigs because its new and shiny like the latest SUV or hybrid. I've never been super impressed with multiple SLI results vs. the cost. Alot depends on the program in question being run as well. Like overclocking itself.....opinions vary.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Instead of processors the gaming game is all about graphics cards.

GPU's are as important a choice as the processor. However Sandy Bridge may change all that. 8GB is fine at the moment if one goes 64bit O/S. However new systems are pushing 12-16Gigs because its new and shiny like the latest SUV or hybrid. I've never been super impressed with multiple SLI results vs. the cost. Alot depends on the program in question being run as well. Like overclocking itself.....opinions vary.

I'm leaning toward 6 gigs right now. I can add a stick if I need to; it's not beyond my capabilities. I'm also leaning toward one pretty good graphics card and not adding the cooling overhead an array might need. I might change as I learn more, but I know that my playing style, environment, and other uses for the box such as music, DVDs, and word processing would benefit from putting the same dollars into the monitor, a clicky keyboard like a Razer, and a good mouse.

As for overclocking, it still scares me a little, even if it's done by pros. That's still on the to-be-determined list.

The truth is, my current rig is so out of the game that anything close to modern is going to blow my mind. It's one of the best moments in gaming when you turn on the new kid for the first time and just go "wow." This time span has been the longest of my gaming career, and things have changed several orders of magnitude on the hardware and in the games' features. I've only played the first two Call of Duty's for example. I think I'm in for some pretty good times, and COD#3 is dirt cheap by now. [:)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: USS America

The box you describe will play AE fine. But it's not a gaming box.

Blasphmey!!! [:D]

AE is gaming and gaming IS AE! [&o][&o][&o]

Sorry, dude. I cheat with other (cheap) game hussies. [:)]

[Nikademus]

well without case.....i just priced a power system using i7 at $1978.99 assuming i needed all the parts i looked at. As was the case 3 years ago....where Intel really sticks it too you is by trying to entice buyers to get their "Extreme edition" version of their best. (3 years ago it was Core2 Extreme). If hooked, you'll add over $700 to the price tag for marginal increases in performance. My advice....go for a good midline processor of the top grade. You'll save a bundle and won't regret it. My midline Core2 quad machine blazed for years before the i5 and i7 came out to knock my now defunct power system off it's pedestal. Glad i didn't waste the money on the Extreme.


Thx to ASUS....i have a number of spare parts that would reduce my cost at the moment by alot. (i have 8GB of DDR3 memory, a 1000w power source, a high speed DVD-R, and a decent nVidia and sound card lying around)

In truth....i'd update the nVidia to the latest were I in a position to build an i7 desktop and probably the sound card as well. But the memory is spry and the powersource fine for my needs.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

well without case.....i just priced a power system using i7 at $1978.99 assuming i needed all the parts i looked at. As was the case 3 years ago....where Intel really sticks it too you is by trying to entice buyers to get their "Extreme edition" version of their best. (3 years ago it was Core2 Extreme). If hooked, you'll add over $700 to the price tag for marginal increases in performance. My advice....go for a good midline processor of the top grade. You'll save a bundle and won't regret it. My midline Core2 quad machine blazed for years before the i5 and i7 came out to knock my now defunct power system off it's pedestal. Glad i didn't waste the money on the Extreme.


Thx to ASUS....i have a number of spare parts that would reduce my cost at the moment by alot. (i have 8GB of DDR3 memory, a 1000w power source, a high speed DVD-R, and a decent nVidia and sound card lying around)

In truth....i'd update the nVidia to the latest were I in a position to build an i7 desktop and probably the sound card as well. But the memory is spry and the powersource fine for my needs.

Surprisingly to someone who once ran home during lunch to install an AdLib sound card in his Dell 386 (no more annoying beeps and whistles form the "native" speaker), sound cards seem to be a meh these days except for audiophiles. Everything I'm reading about gaming sound is that mobo sound is fine for most games, except where fine directional cues are needed to live. I'm thinking of trying to transplant my 7-YO Turtle Beach into the new guy, as I have six satellite speakers and a good subwoofer already, and the plugs work.

I've always had Intels, but I hear decent things about AMD for gaming. That's the extent of my knowledge of AMD--they're better than they used to be. Any comments?

I'm also seeing a myriad of neat case designs. I don't care about all the windows for CPU porn viewing, or neon lights, etc., but I've seen some with top-mount cable connections which would really help me in my room layout. Air flow and dust control is also a key need with a cat living in my office most of the day..

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

As for overclocking, it still scares me a little, even if it's done by pros. That's still on the to-be-determined list.

Don't overclock. Not worth the wear and tear on the system or the instability.

[witpqs]

These people:

http://www.pcper.com/

maintain recommended configurations for different budgets:

http://www.pcper.com/hwlb.php

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


I've always had Intels, but I hear decent things about AMD for gaming. That's the extent of my knowledge of AMD--they're better than they used to be. Any comments?

I'm not an AMD fan. I built the one system using it because I was minimizing cost as part of the exercise. It runs well enough but i believe in sticking with what works and Intel has always done good by me. (I also believe that if something is that much cheaper.....there's a reason for it.) Same for GPU. I'm an nVidia man through and through. Got burned by ATI once. ASUS is also on my s*it list. MSI is great...my P4 board lasted 8+ years of heavy use.

I'm also seeing a myriad of neat case designs. I don't care about all the windows for CPU porn viewing, or neon lights, etc., but I've seen some with top-mount cable connections which would really help me in my room layout. Air flow and dust control is also a key need with a cat living in my office most of the day..

The only valid reason i would spend more for a case is for how well it's interior is designed in regards easy access/installation of components. The cheap case i bought looked fine but it was very bare bones in terms of ease of install, generating a few curse words when removing/adding something. Next time may pay a little more for a fancier box (on the inside) No need for neon or flashing lights or fish tanks.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

These people:

http://www.pcper.com/

maintain recommended configurations for different budgets:

http://www.pcper.com/hwlb.php

Thanks!

[Sredni]

It's going to be interesting to see how the new cpu's with built in gpu's change things. On the one hand I can't see an add on gpu in the cpu being anywhere near as powerfull as a purpose built graphics card, on the other it could end up being an extra gpu to help hold the load with your 1 to 4 purpose built cards. I saw some interesting benchmarking this one guy did with 4 way sli graphics cards vs 3 way with the 4th card tasked to physics with some performance gains with the 3+1 vs the 4 way. So assigning graphics to your graphics cards and physics to your cpu-gpu might be a good performance boost in the future. I think while the built in gpu of the future might normally be mostly targeted to reduce the need for graphics cards at all for non gamers, for gamers it may also end up providing a nice addition to our gpu lineup.

If it all works out heh.


I've long been tempted to build my own computer, but there's a few things that keep holding me back. The numbers on RAM elude my understanding for instance. The four timing numbers, the actual speed of the ram, it's all greek to me. bleh. Or 6gbs vs 3gbs for hard drive connections. About all I know for that is bigger=better, so why arn't they all just 6gbs? But all the MB's today only have 2 connections for 6gbs, leaving the rest as 3gbs. Now when I was thinking about my ideal system I wanted to have a separate drive for the OS, along with drives for normal operations, and then a backup drive to do backups to. With only 2 6gbs connections does that mean I can only have 2 drives at 6gbs? Or do the 2 drives I have setup in raid0 count as only one drive for connection purpose? And if they don't would I get faster drive access with 2 drives in raid0 connected to 3gbs, or 1 drive on a 6gbs connection? arg. And what about my poor backup drive. Am I going to be stuck copying files over a weekend because they're stuck on an old obsolete 3gbs connection? Would I be better off using an external drive connecting to one of the usb 3.0 connection?

Or the bios stuff. the initial setup of a computer sounds like a nightmare to me. A foreign language of pain and suffering.

There's like a billion little things like that that hold me back from building my own system. I've been considering seeing if there are any night courses at one of the local colleges about building your own pc from parts up.

On the liquid cooling there are some interesting small closed system setups that are fairly cheap. Like 70 bucks for a small radiator and heatsink/pump for your cpu only. The heatsink/pump are actually smaller in size then a lot of the heatsink/fan setups, and then the hoses just run to the radiator which clamps (along with fans) to the spot on the back of your case where you'd normal just have a case fan. I havn't tried them out yet but it seems like a fairly easy setup. I think the system you were linking from cyberpower bullwinkle has a setup like that you can upgrade to.

[Bullwinkle58]

You raise a number of questions for which I have no answers. Yet I hear many, many people in RL and online toss off "Just build your own. It's easy!"

Preparing a multi-state federal tax return for a limited partnership is easy too, if that's what you do all day.

I've seen up to six levels of liquid cooling in configuration pages, all the way from mini-coolers just for the CPU up to multi-line, multi-radiators including (I think) the CPU being immersed in a bath of coolant all of the time. I know they're efficient at heat removal, but having liquid anything flowing around 1000 watts of juice, including open-solder boards in slots, gives me the willies. Submarine training is all about never, ever trusting machines to not try to klill you.

[zace]

Would you like me to lay one out on newegg for you?

It won't be bleeding edge but a lot of that is unncessary. IE 6 core CPUs don't add a lot to gaming as they don't thread across them that well.

I might still have the invoice for this one lying around. Let me check. It was a year ago but here are the components.

AMD phemon II 965 black (unlocked multiplier for ocing)
2 x 2 gigs OCZ (black?) memory with heat spreaders and head sinks
1000w ps (can't remember the brand)
nvidia gtx 285

[zace]

This was over a year ago now so the parts arn't bleeding edge.

Remove the case and windows (280 bucks). Up the MB if you want and then SLI the video.


1

OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3RPR16004GK
Item #: N82E16820227320
Memory Standard Return Policy
For Tech support call: 408 986 8400 or email support@ocztechnology.com

$130.99
. 1

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #: N82E16822152185
Standard Return Policy

$89.99
1

Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B - OEM
Item #: N82E16827118030
Limited Replacement Only Return Policy

$24.99
. 1

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 32-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
Item #: N82E16832116756
Software Return Policy
Please Note CD keys are listed on the outside of the plastic wrap accompanying your product.

$139.99
. 1

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX
Item #: N82E16819103727
CPU Replacement Only Return Policy

$183.99
1

MSI 770-G45 AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813130250
Standard Return Policy
MSI 626 913 0828

$79.99
1

BFG Tech BFGEGTX2851024OCBE GeForce GTX 285 1GB 512-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
Item #: N82E16814143190
VGA Standard Return Policy

$359.99
Shipped from NJ, USA - Tracking xxxxxxxxxxxx
1

Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
Item #: N82E16811129043
Limited Replacement Only Return Policy

$159.99
Subtotal $1,169.92
Tax $0.00
UPS 3 DAYS $18.42
Rush Processing $2.99
Order Total $1,191.33

[zace]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You raise a number of questions for which I have no answers. Yet I hear many, many people in RL and online toss off "Just build your own. It's easy!"

Preparing a multi-state federal tax return for a limited partnership is easy too, if that's what you do all day.

I've seen up to six levels of liquid cooling in configuration pages, all the way from mini-coolers just for the CPU up to multi-line, multi-radiators including (I think) the CPU being immersed in a bath of coolant all of the time. I know they're efficient at heat removal, but having liquid anything flowing around 1000 watts of juice, including open-solder boards in slots, gives me the willies. Submarine training is all about never, ever trusting machines to not try to klill you.

Bull, if you are not building a system then you are not OCing to the point that you need liquid cooling 99% of the time....

[zace]

Information for everyone as I have been building systems since the 8088 and 8087 days with the dip socket memory (100's of sockets on a card).

1. Never go for the high end processor. Games don't need the extra speed and will run the same on a lower end.

2. Don't spend 800 bucks on video. By the time the games require the video power you will be able to replace your 400 buck system with one as fast as that 800 dollar one for another 400 bucks. means 400 bucks this year and 400 bucks next year for the same gaming experience and you will keep up with the DX upgrades. Look at people that got screwed on the DX 10 debacle by nvidia.

3. always get your memory in matched pairs... Then set the timing in the bios to what the sticks will do. Don't think more is better... faster is better at a minimum size (4gb is usually enough but you can do 2 x 4gb now).

4. Don't overcool... wasted money. It is better to buy a case with good cooling than coolers for chips. The case will also last decades...

5. remember the system is a matched set. having any one component that much faster won't help you. Balance the CPU, memory, HD, and video for what you are doing. Gaming is video requirement first, CAD is open GL video first then CPU, video rendering is CPU first then memory, etc...

6. don't believe every website out there. Many are in the business of keeping connections not giving you the best advice. Tom's hardware is one of these.....

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You raise a number of questions for which I have no answers. Yet I hear many, many people in RL and online toss off "Just build your own. It's easy!"

Preparing a multi-state federal tax return for a limited partnership is easy too, if that's what you do all day.
I've seen up to six levels of liquid cooling in configuration pages, all the way from mini-coolers just for the CPU up to multi-line, multi-radiators including (I think) the CPU being immersed in a bath of coolant all of the time. I know they're efficient at heat removal, but having liquid anything flowing around 1000 watts of juice, including open-solder boards in slots, gives me the willies. Submarine training is all about never, ever trusting machines to not try to klill you.

Now THAT is one thing I am damn good at ! [:)]

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: zace

Information for everyone as I have been building systems since the 8088 and 8087 days with the dip socket memory (100's of sockets on a card).

1. Never go for the high end processor. Games don't need the extra speed and will run the same on a lower end.

2. Don't spend 800 bucks on video. By the time the games require the video power you will be able to replace your 400 buck system with one as fast as that 800 dollar one for another 400 bucks. means 400 bucks this year and 400 bucks next year for the same gaming experience and you will keep up with the DX upgrades. Look at people that got screwed on the DX 10 debacle by nvidia.

3. always get your memory in matched pairs... Then set the timing in the bios to what the sticks will do. Don't think more is better... faster is better at a minimum size (4gb is usually enough but you can do 2 x 4gb now).

4. Don't overcool... wasted money. It is better to buy a case with good cooling than coolers for chips. The case will also last decades...

5. remember the system is a matched set. having any one component that much faster won't help you. Balance the CPU, memory, HD, and video for what you are doing. Gaming is video requirement first, CAD is open GL video first then CPU, video rendering is CPU first then memory, etc...

6. don't believe every website out there. Many are in the business of keeping connections not giving you the best advice. Tom's hardware is one of these.....

This contiues to be a very helpful thread. I appreciate this advice. As I find myself in a very similar situation to Bullwinkle's I may go play around on Newegg's site ad then ask you a few questions at some point if you don't mind.

[zace]

ORIGINAL: stuman

ORIGINAL: zace

Information for everyone as I have been building systems since the 8088 and 8087 days with the dip socket memory (100's of sockets on a card).

1. Never go for the high end processor. Games don't need the extra speed and will run the same on a lower end.

2. Don't spend 800 bucks on video. By the time the games require the video power you will be able to replace your 400 buck system with one as fast as that 800 dollar one for another 400 bucks. means 400 bucks this year and 400 bucks next year for the same gaming experience and you will keep up with the DX upgrades. Look at people that got screwed on the DX 10 debacle by nvidia.

3. always get your memory in matched pairs... Then set the timing in the bios to what the sticks will do. Don't think more is better... faster is better at a minimum size (4gb is usually enough but you can do 2 x 4gb now).

4. Don't overcool... wasted money. It is better to buy a case with good cooling than coolers for chips. The case will also last decades...

5. remember the system is a matched set. having any one component that much faster won't help you. Balance the CPU, memory, HD, and video for what you are doing. Gaming is video requirement first, CAD is open GL video first then CPU, video rendering is CPU first then memory, etc...

6. don't believe every website out there. Many are in the business of keeping connections not giving you the best advice. Tom's hardware is one of these.....

This contiues to be a very helpful thread. I appreciate this advice. As I find myself in a very similar situation to Bullwinkle's I may go pay around on Newegg's site ad then ask you a few questions at some point if you don't mind.

hopefully you mean play... lol

I am not fully researched on recent video cards and CPUs. But I will help how I can.

[Hanzberger]

Bullwinkle, I would go back to where you started. Go to Cyberpowerpc, build a computer (online) and this will atleast get you familiar with different parts. Then you can compare with other ppl's pre made machines. I am in the exact same boat as you. There is some good common sense advice here. Like not going for the best graphics card and stuff, or less ram now and put some in later. Things I have thought of doing. I think I still would like to have the liquid coolling just for the shear fact of where my computer is (the kitchen lol). I posted the online computer I built last month earlier in the thread. I am gonna wait until Sandy Bridge comes out and then compare prices to see if they have come tumblling down. But I tried to research each componet as I built it, that is why I like cyberpower. IMO I would stick with Intel.

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: stuman

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You raise a number of questions for which I have no answers. Yet I hear many, many people in RL and online toss off "Just build your own. It's easy!"

Preparing a multi-state federal tax return for a limited partnership is easy too, if that's what you do all day.
I've seen up to six levels of liquid cooling in configuration pages, all the way from mini-coolers just for the CPU up to multi-line, multi-radiators including (I think) the CPU being immersed in a bath of coolant all of the time. I know they're efficient at heat removal, but having liquid anything flowing around 1000 watts of juice, including open-solder boards in slots, gives me the willies. Submarine training is all about never, ever trusting machines to not try to klill you.

Now THAT is one thing I am damn good at ! [:)]

Show off! [:'(]