TRP - World at War Released v0.8.19

[Elessar2]

VERY impressive.

[Lothos]

Some pics, with most of India done, Nepal, Tibet and a large portion of China/Manchuria done

I made some tweaks from my last screenshots to fill in some places a bit more.

Also added a new picture of the mini-map

[felixs]

Hi! A couple of months ago I kind of did what you are currently doing and remade the WaW map in a bigger format (mine is 478*196, I'll attach a couple of screenshots below).
With all the distorting I did with continent sizes Europe is pretty comparable to the WiE size. I think that these bigger maps are lots of additional fun because of the added potential for maneuvering, but there are two things I would draw your attention to:
1.) the supply rules are (sadly) hardwired into the game engine, so there will be vast areas that are basically unsuppliable and are just dead weight for the calculations (central Asia, Brazil, the Congo region); and on a related note
2.) the game was obviously not designed for such scales so my loading times between turns have increased quite substantially.

I felt and still feel that the original WaW map scale would be the perfect size IF the game would allow for stacking. Therefore my "big map" campaign has about the same amount of units as the original WaW just more "spaced out".

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that there is at least one other cartography enthusiast out there.

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[Lothos]

Not sure on your PC specs, I am not getting any slow down really. But then again I have a Ryzen 5900x (12 core), 32GB Memory with a 3080 GTX (Graphics card is useless for this type of game).

Yes I have seen the supply issues, which is why I mad some adjustments from my simulations to the Africa map (in WiE). Most of the world map is just a flavor and immersion and is not meant to ever really house units (like Siberia).

China on the other hand is suppose to be a logistical nightmare once past the coastline.

I started working on this because I really want the larger map.

I will make adjustments so supply can go in the proper direction. That will come as I run simulations, but I have not gotten to that point yet.

[Unfortunate Son]

Wow I am speechless with all of these large and great looking maps from Lothos and now felixs. I do not know where to look first!!! I want your maps gentlemen and I want them now!!!

I'll bring the counters!!! LOL

[Lothos]

Wow I am speechless with all of these large and great looking maps from Lothos and now felixs. I do not know where to look first!!! I want your maps gentlemen and I want them now!!!

I'll bring the counters!!! LOL

If you can make counters I could use your help. Need them for Japan and China. If you can take a look at TRP for Europe you can use one of the other majors as a base.

Wanted Red for Japan and Yellow for China.

Is that something you can do?

[Unfortunate Son]

Wow I am speechless with all of these large and great looking maps from Lothos and now felixs. I do not know where to look first!!! I want your maps gentlemen and I want them now!!!

I'll bring the counters!!! LOL

If you can make counters I could use your help. Need them for Japan and China. If you can take a look at TRP for Europe you can use one of the other majors as a base.

Wanted Red for Japan and Yellow for China.

Is that something you can do?

Why thank you Lothos. I am currently making a full set of counters to be used in any mod. Please check out my thread in Mods and Scenarios. It is taking me longer than expected. I am building each unit from scratch. Once I have completed them you are welcome to use them. If you desire something different which will require some minor changes to the originals I can do that. I need to complete the entire set first.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

LoL
Unfortunate Son's counters are in the next thread for your viewing pleasure.

[Lothos]

LoL
Unfortunate Son's counters are in the next thread for your viewing pleasure.

Unfortunately due to changing of units I probably can't use them. I was looking for someone to just change the Nato Counter colors for one of the major powers that I have so they are red and yellow (for Japan and China).

The TRP mod only supports Nato counters.

[Lothos]

Took the past day or two off from working on this. My wife got me CBS all access so I binge watched Picard Season 2.

Anyways, map is close to being done (well to a point were I can start working OOBs etc.. as adjustments will be made over time). Need to add the weather zones and a few more islands in the pacific.

If someone really wants to help and is good with Photoshop I just need someone to take one of the NATO counter images that come with the TRP Europe mod and just change the color to a deep red (for Japan) and another for a bright Yellow (for China).

Not looking for new counters, just existing ones with a the two new colors.

If anyone is willing to do that please PM me.

[Lothos]

Work is continuing, I added all the weather zones in except for the area around Alaska. Jumped to weather so it can help me visualize the terrain I am placing in Russia.

For terrain/resources all I really have left is Siberia (some of Mongolia), Alaska and a few Islands on the far East side of the Pacific.

So I am getting very close to moving to the next stage which is putting in the OOB.

I suspect the OOB will move pretty quickly as well. Mainly because I have a bunch of references to get a true OOB from my past modding Hearts of Iron.

Once the OOB is done then its off to teaching the AI how to fight in the Pacific.

At some point their will be an Alpha for this (not beta) and I am debating on having a Discord channel for it (thoughts anyone?)

[Elessar2]

Once the OOB is done then its off to teaching the AI how to fight in the Pacific.

At some point their will be an Alpha for this (not beta) and I am debating on having a Discord channel for it (thoughts anyone?)

I ran into some issues when I pondered whether to make an AI for my WitP scenario. In the end I decided not to, thanks to the following problems which would have necessitated a TON of work to fix and optimize, but many may have proven unresolvable anyway:

Simply copying over the vanilla Purchases scripts (& editing the map coordinates for the new map) wasn't going to be remotely successful, because the US & Japanese AI in vanilla very rarely build any ships, at least until every other kind of unit is bought first. Loading an AI autosave and looking in the queues reveals a bunch of ships being commissioned very late in the war, by which time the other side will have already gained total naval superiority.

The issue seems to a mix of the relatively low ship build percentages, often set to zero in point of fact (!), esp. early on (pre Pearl Harbor) when the AI should be pretty heavily prioritizing ships, and leaving the #SKIP_FUNDS_CHECK= line set to zero, not one. HC indicated to me that every unit which is above zero has an equal chance of being selected by the relevant algorithms, then a random roll decides if it should be bought. But if the MPPs are too low, the funds check will cancel the build, and since capital ships are the most expensive units in the game (outside of HQs), they won't be bought then unless the funds check equals 1.

Wouldn't be a huge amount of work (nor would the tech builds), but it was some peculiarities of the map AI which truly soured me on the notion. Damaged ships will beeline towards the nearest friendly port. But the algorithm doesn't differentiate between high supply ports, low supply (5) ports, and ports of non-cooperative allies, nor does it care if the port is near enemy units or territory. The end result after a major fleet action against the USN is that any survivors would head towards either Vladivostok or the Aleutians, and would remain there (repaired to a max level of 8 if it wasn't docked in Russia) for the rest of the game, or until I could spare the carriers to pay them a visit and put them out of their misery. I wasn't sure if there was a way to craft "rescue" scripts to redirect them back to the West Coast.

Then there are the Fleet scripts. Alas, they have NO settiing for ship types, so to activate one the AI simply needs a minimum number of vessels near a given port, and off they go. Doesn't matter if [say the minimum is 8] there are 8 destroyers, or 4 carriers and 4 battleships, or what. The minimums often tended to be a bit low IMHO; one infamous one which sends the USN right at Tokyo Bay has a #SIZE= of 8 to 10. They'd sail in, Kido Butai would be waiting, and boom down they went, over and over. [That script also doesn't check for ownership of say the Marianas or Iwo Jima, which means even if they win, the survivors (as indicated above) may have no nearby bases to return to other than the Aleutians.]

There is also no way to coordinate warship movements with amphibious movements commonsensically, nor any way for the AI to check enemy fleet sizes in general and put a kibosh on any offensives until one's own fleet gets sufficiently large. In my last test game (my W@W testmod). They sent 5 RN and 8 USN ships at the DEI-the latter had 4 DDs, 2 BBs, and 2 cruisers (no carriers because I had already sunk all prewar USN ones). After I nailed 11 of them, the 2 survivors scuttled off-and an invasion force of an HQ and 5 land units landed on Java. I blockaded the port down to zero (the Australian Navy was also hors de combat), and waited a few turns for the HQ to lose its short-term supply pool. It then operated in FOUR air units, which made for nice experience gains for my carriers (none were fighters natch). 4 turns later all 9 enemy units were toasted, killed in low supply requiring full repurchases.

There are also very few Unit AI-only ship build scripts, even at maximum difficulty, even tho Russia and China say get tons of bonus land units.

So you are free to try to work around these limitations as best you can. The "best" solution would be to optimize ship builds plus create plenty of free ship Unit builds at high difficulty, and have the AI completely swamp the poor human. I dislike these kinds of brute force approaches to create what I see as fake difficulty. Yeah it's a challenge of sorts but isn't all that enjoyable.
Good luck.

[Lothos]

Writing this in my cell phone So I apologize for any typos. Not sure you've looked at TRP for Europe but I rewrote the AI completely every part of it . I'm aware of many of the things you already said it just takes a lot of testing and simulations most of those issues I've resolved. For example the UK and the USA do have recovery scripts for units being lost on a large scale map it's called in my scripts lost units recovery. As for Germany they do have some lost ships script recovery I didn't create one for the allies because because I met I rewrote the naval scripts increase their range to 250 or more so that they would pull from all over the place when conducting large scale missions which resolved the that issue. Keep one thing in mind AI is what I do that's what I've always done in modern for over 20 years I was very deep into hearts of iron AI at 1 point working directly with the developers and they were actually making changes to the executable and enhancements for me specifically so that I can modify the game my name is actually in the game credits for ai development. Hearts of iron 3 the LUA Provided a means to create some of the best work I ever did in my life dude in my life for the 1st time ever I actually created a dynamic AI that was not hardcoded coded that did not make it into the official game because I created it many years after it's released it took time conceptually to come up with it. There were other models who tried to claim they had similar Lua scripts code but when you dug into it it was a lot of FL statements and it was not organized and it just it was not really dynamic the code that I wrote was true uh object oriented programming in a Louis louisin a Lua language and highly organized all Of it AI work.

With all that said just be patient give me a chance answer the Japanese AI and the Pacific and the Pacific AI are going to be rewritten completely from top to bottom

[Lothos]

Ugh used voice to text in my previous message. Sorry for the massive grammar mistakes.

[Elessar2]

No problem. I am rather massively impressed, understand; if you can make hay out of the limitations of this game engine, more power to you. Obviously you've done your homework.

I'll DL your scenario and check it out once I get my new home internet next week.

[Lothos]

No problem. I am rather massively impressed, understand; if you can make hay out of the limitations of this game engine, more power to you. Obviously you've done your homework.

I'll DL your scenario and check it out once I get my new home internet next week.

Remind me never make a post with Talk to Text again. OMG

So in short, I did all of the AI scripts for Hearts of Iron 2 (official game). I also did all the LUA work for Hearts of Iron 3 (official game). Several years after HoI3 was released I redesigned all of the LUA AI to be Object Oriented and made it so that the AI was truly dynamic. The only part that was partially hard coded was the flow of the war with Germany DOWing etc..... but outside of that anything was possible. For example if Albania magically became a power house and took over all of the Balkans and became a power house the AI would pick that up and change its production to match its economy and yes if its economy got big enough he would build Carriers.

Their is allot more but no need to rehash old stuff here.

Strategic Command does not have the power of LUA to back its AI development. It is more of an HoI 2 style with hardcoded scripts based on conditions. Their is nothing wrong with that as the intent of their game was not to be a sandbox but a re-run of WW2 while HoI they are trying to be more of a sandbox that may flow like WW2 but does not have to.

A truly dynamic AI is not possible in Strategic Command with its current design but the game has more than enough tools to make it a very fun WW2 game which is why I am working on it.

[Lothos]

Took a few days off and was also busy with work.

My wife is out of town and I should have lots of time this week to work on this.

The map is pretty much done, I have Alaska to finish off and put a blob of land to represent the west coast as far east (little north) of Hawaii as possible.

Terrain will get a little touchup as I go on but overall its done.

Going to start the OOBs and every once and a while work on Alaska when I need a break.

Here is a pick of the Siberia area of Russia and a Mini-Map.

[Lothos]

Finished the Alaska Coast (attached picture)

Started the OOBs and I realized their are some mis-qualification of some of the ships and carriers.

I am going to first stick to putting the Pacific countries units out but then come back and re-visit all the starting Ship OOBs for the major powers.

For example when I looked at the original World at War game all of Japans Battleships were classified as Battleships when the old ones are really more like Battle Cruisers and the Yamato/Musashi should be Dreadnaughts with the rest as Battleships.

Also several of the carriers listed were actually light carriers. In fact more than half of Japans carriers were light. They could hold about half of what a USA carrier could hold.

So I am going to be redoing all of this, it should give people new strategies and make it a little more complex. To help curve early carrier production I am thinking of not making Carriers available to be build for USA and Japan till the late years since Japan starts with many already built and in the production que. These are just some thoughts and will flesh them out a bit later.

[Lothos]

OOB is pretty much done (except for Destroyers for Japan) for Japan and China

Japans Production Que is also done

I am sure I will make adjustments but this is very close to what the final will look like.

FYI: Map changes are still possible, this will be based on simulations (in the future not now) and the results of them

I went through ships that Japan had in 1939 so the final numbers are (some of these are in their production que)

Made this post a little early today but I was kinda excited about the progress

4 - Carriers (2 in production que)
2 - Light Carrier (5 in production que)
1 - Dreadnought (1 in production que)
4 - Battleships
6 - Battle Cruisers
17 - Heavy Cruisers
19 - Light Cruisers (2 in production que)


Carrier
-----------
Akagi
Kaga
Soryu
Hiryu
Shokaku
Zuikaku
Taiho
Shinano
Karyu
Unryu
Amagi
Katsuragi
Kasagi
Aso
Ikuma

Light Carrier
-----------
Ryujo
Junyo
Hiyo
Hosho
Chitose
Chiyoda
Zuiho
Shoho
Ryuho
Ibuki
Kaiyo
Unyo
Taiyo
Chuyo
Shinyo

Battle Cruiser
---------------
Fuso
Yamashiro
Ise
Hyuga
Nagato
Mutsu

Battleship
---------------
Kongo
Hiei
Kirishima
Haruna
Unebi
Seiki


Dreadgnaught
---------------
Musashi
Yamato
Karyu
Hizen
Shinano (Aircraft carrier)
Suma

Heavy Cruiser
-------------------
Furutaka
Kako
Aoba
Kinugasa
Nachi
Huguro
Myoko
Ashigara
Atago
Takao
Maya
Chokai
Mogami
Mikuma
Suzuya
Kumano
Chikuma


Light Cruiser
-------------------
Idzumo - To old removed
Asama - To old removed
Oyodo - To old removed
Tatsuta
Tenryu
Kuma
Tama
Kitakami
Kiso
Oi
Nagara
Natori
Kinu
Yura
Yubari
Sendai
Abukuma
Jintsu
Naka
Katori
Kashima
Kashii
Agano
Oyodo
Noshiro
Yahagi
Sakawa
Kashiwara
Kurobe
Suzuka
Takahashi
Katsura
Aikoku Maru

[Lothos]

Russia OOB for ships has been changed, 2 Heavy Cruisers added to their Production Que, Ship names changed (list below). Russian ships start on the map instead of by event (removed the event)

Russia
#############################

Light Carrier
-----------
Lenin
Stalin

Battle Cruiser
---------------
Prince Commune
Marat
Oct Revolution
Kronshtadt
Sevatopol


Battleship
---------------
S Byelorussiya
S Ukraina
S Soyuz


Heavy Cruiser
-------------------
K. Kavkaz
Kirov
Voroshilov
Maxim Gorkiy
Molotov
Kalinin
Kaganovich
Chapayev
Zhelezniakov
Frunze
Kuibyshev
Chkalov
Ordzhonikidze

Light Cruiser
-------------------
Comintern
Chervona Ukraina
Krasni Krym
Murmansk
Volga
Donetz
Chervona Byelorussiya
Admiral Suvorov
Admiral Ushakov

EDITED ----- just finished German OOB of their ships and Production Que (plus events)

Germany
#############################
Carrier
-----------
Yorck
Clausewitz
Burbaroßa


Light Carrier
-----------
Graf Zepplin
Peter Straßer
Seydlitz
Elbe
Kleist


Battle Cruiser
---------------
Gneisenau
Scharnhorst

Battleship
---------------
Bismarck
Tirpitz
Friedrich der Große
Großdeutsch
v. Hindenburg
Moritz
Zeiten
Bevan
Schlesien - To old removed
Shclesig-Holstein - To old removed


Heavy Cruiser
-------------------
von Moltke
Biilow
v. Falkenhayn
Deutschland
Admiral Scheer
Graf Spee
Admiral Hipper
Blucher
Prinz Eugen
Seydlitz - (Light Carrier)
Lützow
v. Mackensen
Derfflinger



Light Cruiser
-------------------
Emden
Königsberg
Karlsruhe
Köln
Leipzig
Nürnberg
Bremen
Kiel
Stettin
Wolf
Kolberg
Memel
Breslau
Leopard
Essen
Pinguin
Orion
Widder
Komet
Atlantis
Kormoran
Thor
Michel
Stier
Hansa


EDITED Again: Added Italy Unit Names and new OOB for its ships

Italy
#############################
Carrier
-----------
L da Vinci
Il Duce


Light Carrier
-----------
Aquila
Sparviero
Pipistrello
Falco



Battle Cruiser
---------------
Guilio Cesare
C. di Cavour
Caio Duilio
Andrea Doria



Battleship
---------------
Vittorio Veneto
Littorio
Roma
Impero
Lepanto
Italia


Heavy Cruiser
-------------------
Pisa
San Giorgio
Trieste
Trento
Zara
Fiume
Pola
Gorizia
Bolzano
Duca D'Aosta
E. Di Savoia
Abruzzi
Garibaldi
Const. Ciano
Venezia
Firenze