How Long Have You Been Playing Wargames?

Buzzard45 · Post by **Buzzard45** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:22 am

If you don't count Risk and Diplomacy, It'd be Panzer Leader in 1977. Just before my son was born.

EEK[X(] that is alng time ago. I was thrilled to find Steel Panthers in 1997. My son bought it for Christmas. We played the Panzer Leader Game on Christmas Eve and and I openned the game the next Morning. Come to think of it, That was the last time that I played Panzer Leader. Its hard to find a player who can spend days playing the same game.

sztartur2 · Post by **sztartur2** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:04 pm

Battle Isle I and The Great War by Blue Byte in 1994. Then Panzer General I and Clash of Steel from SSI in 1995 and on. I played with the last two games for years. SSI had some good stuff...[8D]

Paddington · Post by **Paddington** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:11 pm

I must be one of the youngest here. Started whit sp2 when it came out... Too bad I couldn`t play panzer leader, I wasn`t even borned yet!

Then after sp2 came out I bought sp1 and the got sp3 from a friend...

Warrior2 · Post by **Warrior2** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:26 pm

ORIGINAL: Buzzard45

If you don't count Risk and Diplomacy, It'd be Panzer Leader in 1977. Just before my son was born.

EEK[X(] that is alng time ago. I was thrilled to find Steel Panthers in 1997. My son bought it for Christmas. We played the Panzer Leader Game on Christmas Eve and and I openned the game the next Morning. Come to think of it, That was the last time that I played Panzer Leader. Its hard to find a player who can spend days playing the same game.

I had forgotten about Risk! Used to play it for hours with my friends. Just downloaded the free sample computer version, and was amazed by how elementary it seems now. And how simple compared to the complexities of SPWaW.

Goblin · Post by **Goblin** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:29 pm

Stratego kicked a$$!!!

Goblin

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:35 pm

Not to give anyone any ideas, put years ago a group of friends got together and played Risk, the only catch being it cost $10 to play and the winner collected the cash. Of course, you know how this ended. I left the table with my country captured and my wallet emptied. [:(]

Svennemir · Post by **Svennemir** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:00 pm

Whoa.

So, almost half of you have played wargames longer than I have lived.

Yikes.

mattenhoff · Post by **mattenhoff** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:39 pm

I started when I was about 13 or 14.

First ones were SNIPER! by SSI (IIRC), some division-level game about Normandy and western front (SSI), then Avalon Hill Panzerblitz and Panzer leader nailed it: I stuck in! And of course the "Empire" with computer.

Anyone ever played "World War 2" by SSI ? - I did, the whole summer 1989, with my friends, one game could take 100+ hours from us!

And once I thought I couldn't play anymore when I become an adult.
Hee-hee!!!

Unfortunately the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor)is pretty bad for war games these days... [:-] [:(]

BulletMagnet · Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:43 pm

Ok Ive only been miniature gaming for almost two years now. Hers my club website http://www.ocalagarrison.org/ Ive been computer wargaming all the way back to the 80's .Played many of avalon hill computer games mostly on the c-64. My c-64 favorite was red storm rising followed by sink the bismark and carrier strike.Man i feel old now.

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:54 am

Bullet magnet, don't forget that advances in game technology does one thing that those old games we played didn't do--the odd thing is that we are getting closer to approximating the real life conditions of those long-ago and faraway events as we grow further removed from them. In a seeming paradox, modern technology as it progresses helps us better understand the past. Hardcore boardgamers may poo-poo this logic, but I've been a convert to computer wargames since the mid-1980s, and as the PCs get better, so does the programmers' abilities.

As the years go by, PC games have progressed also--I just compare John Tiller's Battleground games to Close Combat and SPWaW. In the operational field, the differences are even more pronounced--compare SSIs division-level games of the 80s to say "The Ardennes Offensive", or better yet, "Korsun Pocket".

We are in a golden age for PC wargaming, my friend, and it shows no sign of letting up.
To quote Bob Dylan from "My Back Pages": " I was so much older, then...I'm younger than that now."

jbcurtis · Post by **jbcurtis** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:17 am

Well my first wargames were around 1972, Avalon Hill games "D-Day" and "Kriegspiel". I was nine, and having decreasing luck in persuading my older brothers in high school and college to play "kiddie games" with me, so I had to learn their games. Besides introducing me to wargames, it taught me to be a good loser at an early age. I always got creamed, but I had fun.

D-Day had been given as a Christmas present to the brother in high school. He played that game (usually solitaire) almost constantly for two years. He eventually worked out a perfect German defense, and even had it penciled in on the mapboard. Unfortunately, he'd erased it by the time I started playing.

We had that Civil War game Life magazine included as an insert, too. "1863" was the name. I finally won a game of that by the time I was in college. One game between the two older brothers broke up over a rules dispute, however. The Confederate player moved an army into the one square of Canada included on the Northern edge, and claimed the Union player couldn't attack him there.

My chances of a normal childhood were pretty much doomed by that point. I played, lost, and enjoyed Jutland, Midway, Africa Corps, Blitzkrieg, etc, etc, etc. By the time I was in high school, I could even WIN once in a while. One of the brothers, my nephew, and I actually played Jutland a few years ago. It's not quite as comfortable pushing all those cardboard ships all over the floor when you're older, however.

Regards

Sturmpionier · Post by **Sturmpionier** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:21 pm

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Sturmpioneer! [X(]

Excuse me[8|] , but have you ever thought about some dental work? [;)]

I mean, you could look like this [:D] , then again, you might like the look [&:]

WB

This might be hard to believe, but that is not actually my picture. Actually, I look like this.

Mark Ezra · Post by **Mark Ezra** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:34 pm

I credit Milton Bradley for getting me hooked on WarGaming. About 1960 they came out with a board game called Civil War. It was a goofy little game with dice, map and generic gray and blue markers. I loved it it and played it solo (yep nobody ever wanted to play with me even then!) for years. I never forgot it. About 1970 I started getting seriously intersted in minutatures...mostly WW2...it's how I finally learned to use a slide rule...LOL When I bought my first PC I discovered Wild Bill's Raiders and the rest, as they say, is history

simulacrum · Post by **simulacrum** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:27 am

A few have me beat, but not many. 1961: AH Civil War, followed within a month by AH Midway--my first wargaming love and for which I still have a soft spot in my heart. A friend of mine, who qualified as a genius, and I gamed through junior high and high school. I could beat him with off-beat, illogical, yet reasonably realistic tactics. Many, many other games--board & minatures--followed through college and early jobs. They all are in the basement in boxes. Interest went into hiatus with the building of career and the arrival of wife and children--until the quality of PC-based simulations began to catch up. Sid Meier's Gettysburg and Gary Grigsby's Steel Panthers reignighted the passion. Am still waiting for really good, PC-based AI. In the mean time, will continue to follow Steel Panthers.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:54 am

Hmm interesting thought here, according to this survey at least, the views of us "old" grognards might explain why some of us (myself being one of the "us"), might not have much to say in favour of the "popular" style of quasi wargames out there.

Now that is not a slag on modern styles, merely a reflection on the fact, that a lot of us didn't grow up with modern styles, and as such, are not always entirely interested in them.

I don't enjoy the common cliche forms such as shooters and RTS games, simply because to me that is not what a wargame is.

When marketing to a "wargamer", you have to market what we actually call a wargame.
If you want to sell RTS and shooters, just assume you are marketing to young guys, whom often don't even think of themselves as "wargamers". They just want to "shoot up" things. And yes, I know plenty of guys that play the modern styles, and no they don't call themselves "wargamers". To them games are just "games".

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:13 am

Now that is not a slag on modern styles, merely a reflection on the fact, that a lot of us didn't grow up with modern styles, and as such, are not always entirely interested in them.

I'll beg to differ, Les. You're endangering yourself into being locked into comfortable conservatism, which admittedly with SPWaW I've fallen into, also. This breeds complacency, which is anathema to development. No, we can't allow complacency. New challenges must always rest on the horizon, or else it all becomes stale, which in the gaming world leads to a quick death. You, of all people, surely don't wish this upon SPWaW. [;)]

Goblin · Post by **Goblin** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:35 am

There is a point where a game is good as-is, KG, and should not be changed. By your theory, SPWaW should never be the same game, but be changed every so often. If people wanted a different game all the time, they would play different games. They play SPWaW because its SPWaW, not because the game is changed every so often to something not 'stale'.

Goblin

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:45 am

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

... advances in game technology does one thing that those old games we played didn't do--the odd thing is that we are getting closer to approximating the real life conditions of those long-ago and faraway events as we grow further removed from them.

Completely disagree. As technology has been applied to historical simulations, it is bent toward the audience, not the history. Computer simulation in general is receding from state of the art of historical wargame design, not advancing it. The UV system is a fair start, but nobody else is following. AI design is dead in the water.

There's nothing on the computer that can come anywhere close to matching simulations like Victory Games's "Vietnam" or "The Civil War." There are myriad other examples, but those two should do for now.

Maybe someday. But not now. Crap like HoI, Axis and Allies, and the rest can take a long sniff of the oubliette, as far as I'm concerned. WaW is likely to earn a spot in my hall of blame, as well. From what I've seen of it in the rushes and discussion, I'm really disappointed that Matrix/2by3 decided to produce that title.

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:07 am

ORIGINAL: Goblin

There is a point where a game is good as-is, KG, and should not be changed. By your theory, SPWaW should never be the same game, but be changed every so often. If people wanted a different game all the time, they would play different games. They play SPWaW because its SPWaW, not because the game is changed every so often to something not 'stale'.

Goblin

By this I meant new challenges in scenario and campaign development, as far as SPWaW is concerned. New designer tools, also. There has been talk of updating the mech.exe, but it's not gonna happen. The SPWaW engine, while quirky, is still my all-time favorite game. Its flexibility will ensure that it remains on gamers' PCs for years to come.

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:32 am

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

... advances in game technology does one thing that those old games we played didn't do--the odd thing is that we are getting closer to approximating the real life conditions of those long-ago and faraway events as we grow further removed from them.

Completely disagree. As technology has been applied to historical simulations, it is bent toward the audience, not the history. Computer simulation in general is receding from state of the art of historical wargame design, not advancing it. The UV system is a fair start, but nobody else is following. AI design is dead in the water.

There's nothing on the computer that can come anywhere close to matching simulations like Victory Games's "Vietnam" or "The Civil War." There are myriad other examples, but those two should do for now.

Maybe someday. But not now. Crap like HoI, Axis and Allies, and the rest can take a long sniff of the oubliette, as far as I'm concerned. WaW is likely to earn a spot in my hall of blame, as well. From what I've seen of it in the rushes and discussion, I'm really disappointed that Matrix/2by3 decided to produce that title.

Frankly, I think that Schwerpunkt's Russo-German War and Matrix' own Korsun Pocket are prime examples of the new golden age of PC wargaming. I would also include Silent Hunter II, which is more of a simulation, but is open-ended in a way that has allowed user-created mods to transform it into an immersive experience. My old board games now only occupy closet space, but I still admire the artistry of certain board-game maps and the research that accompanied many of those game designs. For the older baby-boomers, like me, pointing and clicking just isn't the same as the tactile sensation of handling those cardboard counters, but I've grown accustomed to the PC games, and I now play them exclusively.

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