Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[ARCNA442]

The US Navy Fact File and the Raytheon product page both describe the SM-2MR Block III missile (#654, #653, #658, #657, #125, #234, #1195, #1194, #3536) as having a range of 90nm rather than the 50nm currently in the database.

https://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_disp ... =1200&ct=2
https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/sm-2

This longer range should also apply to the SM-2MR Block II (#1690, #660, #659) as it used the same MK104 motor as the SM-2MR Block III.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-66.html
http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapo ... ssiles.htm

The same US Navy Fact File page also describes the SM-2ER Block IV (#1667, #2580, #855) as having a range of “100-200 nautical miles”. Given that all the other “ER” variants have roughly twice the range of their “MR” counterparts (SM-1 is 40nm vs 18/25nm while SM-2 Block I is 80nm vs 40nm), I am inclined to believe it is closer to the 200nm figure than the 130nm currently listed in the database.

Any change to SM-2ER Block IV should also apply to SM-6 (#1310, #3541, #3357) since it uses the same MK104 sustainer and MK72 booster.

[CV60]

Minor errors for DB3000 Weapon_1014 C-802 aka Noor

Database gives a max range of 70nm (129.64 km). In contrast, Jane's gives a range of "approximately 120 km." or 64.8 nm. Jane's Weapon Systems Vol. 3: Naval, "CSS-N-4 'Sardine' (YJ-8/YJ-8A/C-801); CSS-N-8 'Saccade' (YJ-82/YJ-83/C-802/C-802A/Noor/Ghader), 25 June 2013. This 120 km range is also repeated Table 1A of ""A Potent Vector: Assessing Chinese Cruise Missile Developments." National Defense University Press. Last modified September 30, 2014. https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Media/News/New ... elopments/." as well as "The PLA Navy" ONI, 2015 at page 15. ( https://web.archive.org/web/20150518082 ... ow_Res.pdf ).

Janes also gives a weight of 715 kg(with booster); 555 kg (without booster) , as compared to the database figure of 755 kg, and a wingspan of 1.22 m, as compared to 1.18 m in the database.

[Tookatee]

The #2377, #3011, #1222, #227, #2432, #3034, #2433, #2641, #1363, #2233, #840, #2235, #1364, and #1361 MiG-25's are all missing loadouts.

All of these MiG-25's are missing the following loadouts:

4x #2002 R-60 + 2x SARH R-40's (either the #759 R-40R or the #148 R-40RD depending on which MiG-25 you look at) or 2x IR R-40's (either the #757 R-40T or the #147 R-40TD depending on which MiG-25 you look at) + 1x 5280 liter Drop Tank

4x of either the IR (either the #757 R-40T or the #147 R-40TD depending on which MiG-25 you look at) or SARH variants of the R-40 (either the #759 R-40R or the #148 R-40RD depending on which MiG-25 you look at) + 1x 5280 liter Drop Tank

The #2377, #2432, #2433, #2641, and #227 MiG-25's are also missing loadouts of:

4x SARH AA-7 Apex (all variants in the database) or 4x IR AA-7 Apex (all variants in the database) + 1x 5280 liter Drop Tank

2x SARH AA-7 Apex (all variants in the database) + 4x #1897 R-60M or 4x #1896 R-73 + 1x 5280 liter Drop Tank

2x IR AA-7 Apex (all variants in the database) + 4x #1897 R-60M or 4x #1896 R-73 + 1x 5280 liter Drop Tank

1x SARH AA-7 Apex (all variants in the database) + 1x IR AA-7 Apex (all variants in the database) + 4x #1897 R-60M or 4x #1896 R-73 + 1x 5280 liter Drop Tank

The #3011 and #3034 MiG-25 are also missing all of the above loadouts, except they would not have the ability to equip R-73's or R-24's as these variants existed several years before the deployment of the R-73 and R-24. Additionally, the #3034 and #2433 should have the drop tanks removed from those specified loadouts when adding them.

Also, the #1222 Soviet MiG-25P is missing loadouts #5236, #9602, and #9601 (in addition to the ones I specified here) despite these loadouts being present on all other database entries of the MiG-25P.

Sources: https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig25/ , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25 , https://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/mig-25_foxbat.pl, and https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraf ... raft_id=64

[burningphoneix]

Is it possible to add the smaller Iranian UAVs like the HESA Ababil as both a drone and a loitering munition to simulate the suicide drones used by the Houthis in Yemen?

[Tookatee]

All variants of the American F-16 Block 25 and beyond are missing the ability to use any version of the AIM-7, despite the fact that starting from this model the F-16 received BVR capability for the AIM-7, with one missile being equippable on the #3 and #7 pylons.

The missing loadouts are:

2x AIM-7 (either just the #1400 AIM-7M if before 1994 or both the #1400 AIM-7M and the #443 AIM-7P if the variant is after 1994) + 4x SRAAMs + 2x #1763 370 USG gal Drop Tank + 1x Era appropriate Navigation pod (either the #1036 AN/ALQ-119 DECM or the #911 AN/ALQ-184(V) DECM) + 1x Era appropriate Targeting pod (either no pod or the #771 AN/AAQ-28(V)1)

2x AIM-7 (either just the #1400 AIM-7M if before 1994 or both the #1400 AIM-7M and the #443 AIM-7P if the variant is after 1994) + 4x Era Appropriate AMRAAMs + 2x #1763 370 USG gal Drop Tank + 1x Era appropriate Navigation pod (either the #1036 AN/ALQ-119 DECM or the #911 AN/ALQ-184(V) DECM) + 1x Era appropriate Targeting pod (either no pod or the #771 AN/AAQ-28(V)1)

2x AIM-7 (either just the #1400 AIM-7M if before 1994 or both the #1400 AIM-7M and the #443 AIM-7P if the variant is after 1994) + 2x SRAAMs + 2x Era Appropriate AMRAAMs + 2x #1763 370 USG gal Drop Tank + 1x Era appropriate Navigation pod (either the #1036 AN/ALQ-119 DECM or the #911 AN/ALQ-184(V) DECM) + 1x Era appropriate Targeting pod (either no pod or the #771 AN/AAQ-28(V)1)


Image showing where the AIM-7's would go on the F-16.




F-16D firing an AIM-7.


Sources: http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article10.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_D ... ing_Falcon

[aleavz]

Hello, I have found some issues with the Brazilian SS 40 Riachuelo stats.

The way it is implemented right now, the sub is basically a standard Scórpene class, which is not really the case. The brazilian Scórpenes (there are three more in construction) are fitted with an extra hull section but no AIP, with the space being used for extra stores, bunk space and fuel. The Brazilian Navy claims this greatly extended the sub's range up to 13,000 miles (not nautical) on diesel. The maximum dive depth seem too shallow (saib by DCNS/Naval Group as being over 300 or 350 meters), the dimensions are wrong (the sub is actually 71.6 meters long due to the extra section, not 66.45) and the magazine size seems too small, especially for the Exocets (quoted by the navy as being 18 weapons, with up to 8 Exocets).

Edit: I have also read about the subs being equipped with the more capable TSM 2233 Mk III sonar, but have no reliable sources to quote.

Forum won't allow me to post links for some reason, so whoever wants the sources just reply me with your email or email me (adress on my profile).

Thanks

[stilesw]

Minor Error for CDB3000 Weapon_1741 C-601/YJ-6:
Weapons DB states the missile is "Terrain Following" This is incorrect. According to Jane's Weapon Systems Vol 1: Air-Launched, "YJ-6 (C-601) CAS-1 'Kraken',YJ-61 (C-611), 21 August 2013, the C-601 flew at a pre-selected cruise altitude of either 50, 70 or 100 meters. This makes sense, as it was an anti-ship missile derived from the SS-N-2C Styx, so it had no need to have a terrain following capability. Also, Jane's gives a range of 54 nm, vice 60 in the database, and a minimum range of 25 km (13.5 nm) vice the 5 nm minimum range in the database. Jane's also gives the launch envelope as being betwwen 3,000-30,0000 feet, vice the database claim of 1500-55000 feet.

Logged.

-WS

[stilesw]

The #164 AIM-9J and the #183 AIM-9N have an incorrect maximum range. For both missiles it should be 7.82 nautical miles, as the N variant is simply the J variant's sensor rebuilt with better circuitry and they both used the same rocket motor that burned for the same amount of time.

Additionally the #2287 AIM-9C should have a maximum range of 8.9 nautical miles rather than eight, the #1163 AIM-9D should have a maximum range of 11 nm, and the #1104 AIM-9G and #1053 AIM-9H should have a max range of 9.5.

Logged.

-WS

[stilesw]

#1008 R08 - Queen Elizabeth (2018) aircraft carrier has incorrect radar
1) Type 1045 Sampson MFR is incorrect, only fitted to UK Type 45 destroyers, please remove.
2) Missing a Type 1046 VSR/LRR [S.1850M], please add.

Gary,

Logged.

-Wayne

[Tookatee]

The #1748, #3658, and #4514 F-15K are missing the Helmet Mounted Sight/Display (HMS/HMD) property. A part of the F-15K since it's inception was the use of the Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System in combination with the AIM-9X.

Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell ... rike_Eagle , http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraft/F ... 35006.aspx , https://www.globalsecurity.org/military ... /f-15k.htm , and https://www.airforce-technology.com/pro ... lam-eagle/

[orca]

ORIGINAL: gosnold

Some request on French forces:

Weapons:
Mica-NG infrared
Mica-NG active radar

Those are new version of the Mica AAMs (DB ID 1872 and 1873)
Main changes are upgraded seekers (with an AESA for the radar), more propellant volume and a dual-pulse engine:

More specifically, the infrared seeker will use a matrix sensor providing greater sensitivity. Meanwhile the radio frequency seeker will use an AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Antenna), enabling smart detection strategies. The reduced volume of electronic components within MICA NG will allow it to carry a larger quantity of propellant, thereby significantly extending the range of the missile. Utilising a new double-pulse rocket motor will also provide additional energy to the missile at the end of its flight to improve manoeuvrability and the ability to intercept targets at long range.

manufacturer PR

IOC 2026, will be carried by Rafale, Mirage 200D and Mirage 200-5:
source

The main issue for DB addition is the range. Current MICAs are modelled with 45nm range. As a comparison, the AMRAAM went from 60nm to 75nm range in the DB from the -C7 do the -D, which apparently introduced a dual pulse engine. That's a 25% increase. So Mica-NG should have the same increase at least, giving a range of 55nm.
Also, Mica are CEC capable, this should be added in the DB, it's important with the recent air warfare changes. There was a test of a Mica radar version with designation from another platform, with the target behind the shooter:
source


Aircraft:
Mirage 2000D MLU
It is an upgrade of the Mirage 2000D (DB ID 3931), with the main changes being the addition of a podded canon, and the replacement of the Magic II AAM by Mica IR:
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/actualites/ ... age-2000-d
picture of a test flight:
https://ftp.evac-fr.net/ergo/images/2000D_RMV.JPG
IOC 2020, 55x:
source: budget documents

Armed Reaper UAV
The reaper UAV are represented as unarmed in the database (ID 3231). Starting from 2019 they will be armed:
source
Since France has ordered 6 block I and 6 block 5, I suggest to add the block 5 with an IOC of 2019 (basically clone the US block 5 DB ID 4536)

SDAM drone
A drone helo to be carried by the frigates: will carry a radar and an IR turret at the same time, 10hours of autonomy, 15kg fuel/hr, 4hr of maintenace every 50hr (so the ready time should be much shorter than a traditional helo), top speed 185km/h, max altitude 6000m. Will come as an addition to the existing helo since it can fit in the remaining space in the hangars due to its small size
IOC 2028
source
also here
also here

Ships
Air defense version of the FREMM (FREMM AAW)
Already exists in the DB as the 2022 version of the FREMM ASW (DB ID 2794). The ASW should be replaced by AAW to avoid confusion

Intermediate size frigate
5x, IOC 2025
Basically a FREMM ASW with the 16 MdCN removed, and the radar replaced by a fixed-plate Seafire AESA. The CAPTAS towed sonar is also replaced by a lighter version with the same performance called CAPTAS nano:
manufacturer PR
full specs at wikipedia, primary source


upgraded Lafayette frigates
3x, IOC 2021
An upgraded version of DB ID 2520, with an added bow sonar, and the Crotale SHORAD replaced by two SADRAL Mistral launchers. Will use block III exocest but that's already the case in the DB

The firing facilities of the 8 anti-ship missiles, now the Exocet MM40 Block2, will be modified for the implementation of Exocet Block3/Block3c. The Crotale system with its 8 missiles in battery and 16 in cargo hold will be landed and replaced by two Sadral with 6 Mistral missiles each. These systems will come from the former anti-submarine frigates Dupleix, Montcalm and Jean de Vienne, which were retired in 2014, 2017 and 2018. Upgraded, the Sadral will implement the latest version of the Mistral, with an improved self-director to increase anti-missile capability and also to address asymmetric threats, including surface targets such as fast boats. The renovated FLFs will also be equipped with the new KingKlip Mk2 hull sonar, which will give them an anti-submarine warfare capability that these vessels have hitherto lacked (only the Surcouf is equipped on an experimental basis with a BlueWatcher hull sonar since 2017).

source

To expand on the request for the air defense version of the FREMM. There will be 2 ships- named Alsace and Lorraine- so DB name should be changed.

The differences from the DB are:
add STIR EO Mk2 and remove Najir
add extended range variant of Herakles radar to replace current Herakles
add 2x Sylver A50 with 32 cells for Aster 15/30 and remove Sylver A70


https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ench-navy/
https://www.janes.com/article/83618/fir ... akes-shape
https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/defau ... _12_HR.pdf

And additional info on intermediate frigate (aka FTI)
length- 122m
beam-17.7m
displacement- 4,200t

mounts- VLS will be 16 cell Sylver 50, o/w same as FREMM #2794
sensors- Sea Fire 4 faced fixed array air/surface radar replace Herakles and scanter, Kingklip hull sonar, compact CAPTAS, otherwise same as FREMM

https://www.naval-technology.com/projec ... -frigates/
https://www.janes.com/article/83950/fac ... ti-frigate

[Dysta]

Request to add Sansha II for China as dual-use vessel. It also has a helicopter platform and Ro-Ro hangar for such tonnage of ferry ship:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201908/2 ... 6707e.html (Pictures and specification inside)

[stilesw]

Low priority but could we consider adding the Saab Swordfish as a Hypothetical unit for South Korea. The plane is still attempting to sell it to someone however South Korea nearly bought it before settling on the P-8

Ryan,

Noted for possible future addition.

-Wayne

[stilesw]

I was wondering if it is possible to add the Avante 2200 corvettes to the Royal Saudi Naval Forces as they're most likely gonna enter service with the MMSC they've ordered
Unfortunately I can not post links at the moment as I'm a new account but it's on Navy Recognition.

Mo,

Noted for possible future inclusion.

-Wayne

[Tookatee]

The #3429 SA-25 Verba incorrectly has the "Dual-Spectral IR Technology" ability when it in fact uses three IR sensors (ultraviolet, near infrared, and mid-infrared spectrums.) This gives it improved performance over typical missiles that use dual spectral seekers, like the Igla-S that it was designed to replace.

Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K333_Verba and https://armyrecognition.com/june_2015_g ... 06154.html.

[stilesw]

The US Navy Fact File and the Raytheon product page both describe the SM-2MR Block III missile (#654, #653, #658, #657, #125, #234, #1195, #1194, #3536) as having a range of 90nm rather than the 50nm currently in the database.

https://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_disp ... =1200&ct=2
https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/sm-2

This longer range should also apply to the SM-2MR Block II (#1690, #660, #659) as it used the same MK104 motor as the SM-2MR Block III.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-66.html
http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapo ... ssiles.htm

Logged for update.

-Wayne

[stilesw]

Is it possible to add the smaller Iranian UAVs like the HESA Ababil as both a drone and a loitering munition to simulate the suicide drones used by the Houthis in Yemen?

Noted for possible future update.

-Wayne

[stilesw]

Request to add Sansha II for China as dual-use vessel. It also has a helicopter platform and Ro-Ro hangar for such tonnage of ferry ship:

Dysta,

Noted for possible future addition to the DB. Thanks for the information.

-WS

[stilesw]

Some requests on French forces:

Logged.

-Wayne

[stilesw]

Hello, I have found some issues with the Brazilian SS 40 Riachuelo stats.

Alexandre,

Logged.

-Wayne