Certainly like those!
I also got to thinking about your placement of the Mobile Army in Manchuria and that makes sense. The Japanese player can call it down if he feels so inclined to use it in China.
Stanislav: Concur with your Posting regarding specializing aircraft types for the research teams. Am curious as to how you will progress that.
The PERFECT WAR Mod
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: AFB Beware
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: AFB Beware
Thanks for the excellent work, kfsgo!
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: AFB Beware
Any progress guys?
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: AFB Beware
I went backwards for a little while and am now going forward down a different road; I wasn't very happy with how China Mk. II was turning out so have wiped the Chinese OOB entirely and am building a new one at Div (rather than Corps) scale. Not a historical OOB per se except in scale but am distinguishing between CCP, KMT, Warlord, Provincial/Militia forces w/r/t who is mobile/who can cross borders/who gets first pick of equipment etc. End result should be an army similarly sized but more flexible and, offsetting its larger size somewhat, more brittle if forced to fight. Should be mostly done by Weds morning at this rate...
RE: AFB Beware
I hope to show the progress tomorrow...ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Any progress guys?
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: AFB Beware
Sounds good Gents.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
RE: AFB Beware
I got answers from people I was talking above, Russian historians Eugen Pinak and Vladimir Sidorenko - they are okay with using their ship concepts/art for modding purposes (well, to be honest I already borrowed a number of ideas regarding IJN from them). I'll sort the needed art and post it tomorrow, hopefully.
One more note before continuing - I fell I'm not entirely confident in my knowledge of air combat's workings. I'm finding that mere testing miss a lot of things that can be discovered by a devious opponent (like bombers defensive fire being super effective in night combat, as noted above - I, when toying with Downfall, subscribed to the common logic of setting planes with weaker armament to night missions, while using your best-armed planes for them is actually more effective). So, feedback will be much appreciated.
That said, the air proposal part 1: our main fighter plane.
I must admit, I personally like Ki-43, and reading histories of a number of fighter sentais gives me a feeling this plane tends to be underrated. In game terms, it is also highly useful early on, when it can fly above any Allied fighter. However, both in AE and RL it is pretty much a dead end design that becomes inadequate very fast, thanks to impossibility of fitting more than a pair 12.7 MGs into it without completely screwing its stability. So, my engine proposal was already written with a way of justifying its elimination in mind.
Now, A6M is inferior to Ki-43 in some aspects, for example high-speed maneurability, or, later, protection. However it is far better at actually shooting down things, and has a room for improvement there. Also, A6M is available much earlier (Nakajima backed off from the new naval fighter competition, considering requirements impossible, and Ki-43 was built significantly later), which makes its adoption by the army when the need for a long-range fighter becomes obvious a bit more plausbile, at least if we assume a better Army/Navy cooperation. As a side note, A6M2 was initially adopted as a land fighter, with carrier operation equipment and folding wingtips only appearing later. Name it, say, Ki-41. Nakajima will be given the task of producing this design for the Army (most of A6Ms already were built on Nakajima factories in RL), as a compensation. And with Sakai being kept in production only for the sake of already-existing planes, they won't have an immediately avaiable alternative anyway.
Well, technically speaking, here our paths can diverge. Assuming cooperation levels closer to historical, Nakajima can start designing a Ki-43-like air superiority fighter based on Ha-33 here. This will eventually lead to a Frank Lite (in RL they tried to install Ha-33 engine on Ki-84 airframe late in the war, by the way). This is not ideal, though, as this fighter almost certainly will not be available at all by December 1941, and we will still have duplication of effort.
Note, that until about early 1943, maybe late 1942 in this alternative, Mitsubishi Kinsei has only around 100 more hps of max power compared to Nakajima Sakae, and initial examples of high-power Kinsei engines (used on Ki-46-III) suffered from unreliability. Serious advantage over Sakae will start to appear only later in the war. And speaking of powerplants - Mitsubishi Zuisei (Ha-31), the engine installed on Zero prototypes, was initially rejected for being underpowered, but by spring of 1941 it was heavily modified and actually exceeded the current version of Sakae in power. To illustrate, going from twin Zuisei 14s, more advanced than Zuisei 12, installed on A6M1, to twin Zuisei 21s, allowed Ki-46 Dinah gain 64 km/h of top speed. If we don't want to deviate too far from historical engine availability dates, we can start a war with A6M1s (about one hex less range than very fuel-effective Sakae, otherwise basically as A6M2), then replace them with the Ha-33-powered model A6M2a in autumn of 1942 (fuel tanks as on A6M3a to compensate for a more powerful engine, range on the same level as A6M1 at best, more speed, all-wing guns), then basically build successive designs along A6M5-A6M8 line, probably introducing improved protection and armament earlier than RL, due to more powerful engine to lift all that. Just one line of models this time. As about Ki-41/army Zeros, I'm inclined to keep them closely mirroring the development for the Navy. Not sure if Nakajima engineers have any ideas applicable to Zero or might be willing to share them (wing fuel tank racks in style of Ki-43 come to mind, but Zero has guns in roughly the same place).
No J2M this time as well. Production of 621 aircraft from December 1942 to the war's end is just not acceptable. Yes in the game it is possible to build throngs of them, but then we have to accept one of the two ahistoricalities - either give it only 612 km/h up until the end of war, or give it more realistic 650-670 km/h (results of tests by TAIC on 92 octane fuel, which was available to Japanese) and watch the Allied airforce burn due to facing thousands of Corsair equals, while Allies themselves still have quite limited numbers of such planes. I'd prefer not to. I vote for sacrificing it to allow us developing A7M as fast as possible again. Share the result with the Army again - although by that time IJAAF should have its own planes, relatively adequate for end-war scenarios (later on that), so it might be not strictly necessary. But with the assumed level of cooperation (and no Ki-84 anywhere), IJAAF will probably want this fighter (name it, say, Ki-82).
One more note before continuing - I fell I'm not entirely confident in my knowledge of air combat's workings. I'm finding that mere testing miss a lot of things that can be discovered by a devious opponent (like bombers defensive fire being super effective in night combat, as noted above - I, when toying with Downfall, subscribed to the common logic of setting planes with weaker armament to night missions, while using your best-armed planes for them is actually more effective). So, feedback will be much appreciated.
That said, the air proposal part 1: our main fighter plane.
I must admit, I personally like Ki-43, and reading histories of a number of fighter sentais gives me a feeling this plane tends to be underrated. In game terms, it is also highly useful early on, when it can fly above any Allied fighter. However, both in AE and RL it is pretty much a dead end design that becomes inadequate very fast, thanks to impossibility of fitting more than a pair 12.7 MGs into it without completely screwing its stability. So, my engine proposal was already written with a way of justifying its elimination in mind.
Now, A6M is inferior to Ki-43 in some aspects, for example high-speed maneurability, or, later, protection. However it is far better at actually shooting down things, and has a room for improvement there. Also, A6M is available much earlier (Nakajima backed off from the new naval fighter competition, considering requirements impossible, and Ki-43 was built significantly later), which makes its adoption by the army when the need for a long-range fighter becomes obvious a bit more plausbile, at least if we assume a better Army/Navy cooperation. As a side note, A6M2 was initially adopted as a land fighter, with carrier operation equipment and folding wingtips only appearing later. Name it, say, Ki-41. Nakajima will be given the task of producing this design for the Army (most of A6Ms already were built on Nakajima factories in RL), as a compensation. And with Sakai being kept in production only for the sake of already-existing planes, they won't have an immediately avaiable alternative anyway.
Well, technically speaking, here our paths can diverge. Assuming cooperation levels closer to historical, Nakajima can start designing a Ki-43-like air superiority fighter based on Ha-33 here. This will eventually lead to a Frank Lite (in RL they tried to install Ha-33 engine on Ki-84 airframe late in the war, by the way). This is not ideal, though, as this fighter almost certainly will not be available at all by December 1941, and we will still have duplication of effort.
Note, that until about early 1943, maybe late 1942 in this alternative, Mitsubishi Kinsei has only around 100 more hps of max power compared to Nakajima Sakae, and initial examples of high-power Kinsei engines (used on Ki-46-III) suffered from unreliability. Serious advantage over Sakae will start to appear only later in the war. And speaking of powerplants - Mitsubishi Zuisei (Ha-31), the engine installed on Zero prototypes, was initially rejected for being underpowered, but by spring of 1941 it was heavily modified and actually exceeded the current version of Sakae in power. To illustrate, going from twin Zuisei 14s, more advanced than Zuisei 12, installed on A6M1, to twin Zuisei 21s, allowed Ki-46 Dinah gain 64 km/h of top speed. If we don't want to deviate too far from historical engine availability dates, we can start a war with A6M1s (about one hex less range than very fuel-effective Sakae, otherwise basically as A6M2), then replace them with the Ha-33-powered model A6M2a in autumn of 1942 (fuel tanks as on A6M3a to compensate for a more powerful engine, range on the same level as A6M1 at best, more speed, all-wing guns), then basically build successive designs along A6M5-A6M8 line, probably introducing improved protection and armament earlier than RL, due to more powerful engine to lift all that. Just one line of models this time. As about Ki-41/army Zeros, I'm inclined to keep them closely mirroring the development for the Navy. Not sure if Nakajima engineers have any ideas applicable to Zero or might be willing to share them (wing fuel tank racks in style of Ki-43 come to mind, but Zero has guns in roughly the same place).
No J2M this time as well. Production of 621 aircraft from December 1942 to the war's end is just not acceptable. Yes in the game it is possible to build throngs of them, but then we have to accept one of the two ahistoricalities - either give it only 612 km/h up until the end of war, or give it more realistic 650-670 km/h (results of tests by TAIC on 92 octane fuel, which was available to Japanese) and watch the Allied airforce burn due to facing thousands of Corsair equals, while Allies themselves still have quite limited numbers of such planes. I'd prefer not to. I vote for sacrificing it to allow us developing A7M as fast as possible again. Share the result with the Army again - although by that time IJAAF should have its own planes, relatively adequate for end-war scenarios (later on that), so it might be not strictly necessary. But with the assumed level of cooperation (and no Ki-84 anywhere), IJAAF will probably want this fighter (name it, say, Ki-82).
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: JFB Beware
No comments or critique so far?
Okay, let's continue with the air proposal. Point #2 - early-war interceptor.
Well, first of all I should note that the idea of building dedicated interceptors in general is not very good. Narrow specialization generally wasn't the way to success with WWII fighters, particularly for the country that just didn't have enough planes in general. However, thankufully, in this case, keeping realistic pre-war Japanese mindset (distinctive "light" maneurable long-range fighter and "heavy" speedy short-range interceptor; this idea was repudiated on the next generation of planes designed, which combined both qualities) allows us to introduce a more modern figher to the Japanese air forces before 1944 or so. So, let's do it.
A brief overview of RL Japanese works in this field first. As you all know, both Navy and Army ordered an interceptor fighter separately in 1939. Both of those planes were light, tightly built around their respective engines, and had relatively short range. Nakajima designed Ki-44, powered by their Nakajima Ha-34 (Ha-109) engine, for IJAAF. While early Ki-44 had characteristics very similar to early FW-190 (although it appeared on the battlefield noticeably later), its engine quickly proved to be not powerful enough and have no room for further development. As a result, Ki-44 was lacking in armament and protection for most of its career (you might notice in the game that, while good against Allied fighters, it is not really better than Ki-43 in its intended role as a bomber interceptor...), and swiftly abandoned once Ki-84 entered service. Of IJAAF fighter types introduced before 1945 it was the least numerically significant.
Mitsubishi, meanwhile, built J2M around a modification of their Ha-32 (MK4 Kasei) engine, which eventually achieved far greater power than Ha-34 and allowed J2M to achieve speed on par with contemporary Allied fighters, while carrying passable armament and protection. Said modification was also the first Japanese engine to feature water-methanol injection, giving J2M good high altitude peformance, compared to other Japanese planes. However, as noted above, the engine was not coupled with the plane very successfully, attempts to minimize fuselage cross-section went too far and resulted in a highly unreliable, highly difficult to produce plane. Maybe it was possible to solve its teething troubles in timely manner if only Horikoshi's deisgn bureau was less overloaded by projects, but as noted above, it has more important things to do. Unlike Ki-44 J2M was never completely replaced by N1K-J, and kept in limited production because of its superior high altitude performance, but it was too rare to have a serious impact on the air war.
A few words about N1K-J is necessary too. Not really a dedicated interceptor, it ultimately achieved greater success and production numbers than J2M, despite being powered by notoriously unreliable Homare. One thing to note, though - its precedessor, amphibious N1K was actually powered by an earlier version of Kasei and, AFAIK, demonstrated no reliability problems, while displaying pretty high specs, for a floatplane. Of course, with its small production run and no real experience with operating from forward airbases, they might well remained hidden - Ki-84 seemed passably reliable when tested in Japan too, so N1K is not an ironclad proof of the possibility of installing Kasei on a fighter plane without troubles. This is definitely less of a stretch than many other assumptions we make for this mod, though. I also wonder, what could have been if N1K-J used advanced versions of Kasei, which were only marginally less powerful than Homares until Homare 21, while being, as far as I can tell, generally more reliable.
Anyway, this long talk about engines is meant to demonstrate my train of thought. The conclusion is, the pre-war interceptor design should be powered by Ha-32 engine, installed normally, without J2M-like tricks. Just accept bigger drag. The work of designing it probably should be given to Nakajima, as they have a capable and now-unoccupied design team. Placate them for having no choice but to use an engine of their competitor by promises of selling their plane both to IJAAF and IJNAF. Let's designate this "super-Tojo", say Ki-42/J3N. Proposed model lineup - the first planes in small test squadron at the beginning, production around 42/5, stats actually lower than Ki-44-IIa, because it is significantly bigger, but doesn't really have significantly engine power, maybe it even has less. Much lower if armament needs to match that of Zero. Possibly no Navy model at this stage, because this plane is unsatisfying. Around 43/3 the second model, powered by an improved Ha-32, similar to that installed on J2M, is introduced. Now we're talking. Service rating increases until the next model in late 43 - early 44 (problems with water-metanol injection will remain), but now we look at speed above 370 mph and great ceiling, coupled with armament of at least 2x20 + 2x12.7. As said above, in late 43-early 44 we get another model, again with SR 1 and perhaps 4x20 armament. Didn't think yet about late-war possibilities (which might include re-engining out "super-Tojo", or going straight for a Ki-87 equivalent).
Okay, let's continue with the air proposal. Point #2 - early-war interceptor.
Well, first of all I should note that the idea of building dedicated interceptors in general is not very good. Narrow specialization generally wasn't the way to success with WWII fighters, particularly for the country that just didn't have enough planes in general. However, thankufully, in this case, keeping realistic pre-war Japanese mindset (distinctive "light" maneurable long-range fighter and "heavy" speedy short-range interceptor; this idea was repudiated on the next generation of planes designed, which combined both qualities) allows us to introduce a more modern figher to the Japanese air forces before 1944 or so. So, let's do it.
A brief overview of RL Japanese works in this field first. As you all know, both Navy and Army ordered an interceptor fighter separately in 1939. Both of those planes were light, tightly built around their respective engines, and had relatively short range. Nakajima designed Ki-44, powered by their Nakajima Ha-34 (Ha-109) engine, for IJAAF. While early Ki-44 had characteristics very similar to early FW-190 (although it appeared on the battlefield noticeably later), its engine quickly proved to be not powerful enough and have no room for further development. As a result, Ki-44 was lacking in armament and protection for most of its career (you might notice in the game that, while good against Allied fighters, it is not really better than Ki-43 in its intended role as a bomber interceptor...), and swiftly abandoned once Ki-84 entered service. Of IJAAF fighter types introduced before 1945 it was the least numerically significant.
Mitsubishi, meanwhile, built J2M around a modification of their Ha-32 (MK4 Kasei) engine, which eventually achieved far greater power than Ha-34 and allowed J2M to achieve speed on par with contemporary Allied fighters, while carrying passable armament and protection. Said modification was also the first Japanese engine to feature water-methanol injection, giving J2M good high altitude peformance, compared to other Japanese planes. However, as noted above, the engine was not coupled with the plane very successfully, attempts to minimize fuselage cross-section went too far and resulted in a highly unreliable, highly difficult to produce plane. Maybe it was possible to solve its teething troubles in timely manner if only Horikoshi's deisgn bureau was less overloaded by projects, but as noted above, it has more important things to do. Unlike Ki-44 J2M was never completely replaced by N1K-J, and kept in limited production because of its superior high altitude performance, but it was too rare to have a serious impact on the air war.
A few words about N1K-J is necessary too. Not really a dedicated interceptor, it ultimately achieved greater success and production numbers than J2M, despite being powered by notoriously unreliable Homare. One thing to note, though - its precedessor, amphibious N1K was actually powered by an earlier version of Kasei and, AFAIK, demonstrated no reliability problems, while displaying pretty high specs, for a floatplane. Of course, with its small production run and no real experience with operating from forward airbases, they might well remained hidden - Ki-84 seemed passably reliable when tested in Japan too, so N1K is not an ironclad proof of the possibility of installing Kasei on a fighter plane without troubles. This is definitely less of a stretch than many other assumptions we make for this mod, though. I also wonder, what could have been if N1K-J used advanced versions of Kasei, which were only marginally less powerful than Homares until Homare 21, while being, as far as I can tell, generally more reliable.
Anyway, this long talk about engines is meant to demonstrate my train of thought. The conclusion is, the pre-war interceptor design should be powered by Ha-32 engine, installed normally, without J2M-like tricks. Just accept bigger drag. The work of designing it probably should be given to Nakajima, as they have a capable and now-unoccupied design team. Placate them for having no choice but to use an engine of their competitor by promises of selling their plane both to IJAAF and IJNAF. Let's designate this "super-Tojo", say Ki-42/J3N. Proposed model lineup - the first planes in small test squadron at the beginning, production around 42/5, stats actually lower than Ki-44-IIa, because it is significantly bigger, but doesn't really have significantly engine power, maybe it even has less. Much lower if armament needs to match that of Zero. Possibly no Navy model at this stage, because this plane is unsatisfying. Around 43/3 the second model, powered by an improved Ha-32, similar to that installed on J2M, is introduced. Now we're talking. Service rating increases until the next model in late 43 - early 44 (problems with water-metanol injection will remain), but now we look at speed above 370 mph and great ceiling, coupled with armament of at least 2x20 + 2x12.7. As said above, in late 43-early 44 we get another model, again with SR 1 and perhaps 4x20 armament. Didn't think yet about late-war possibilities (which might include re-engining out "super-Tojo", or going straight for a Ki-87 equivalent).
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: JFB Beware
Another, simper and, in all likelyhood, more realistic fighter alternative, requires eliminating infatuation with the idea of a separate interceptor, instead of assuming extremely tight IJAAF/IJNAF cooperation. Which is far more believable.
In this case, keep Ki-43, as it enters production before the wartime engine streamlining described above. Both J2M and Ki-44 do not exist. Mitsubishi's fighter design bureau proceeds to work on A7M early, and Nakajima's brainpower is directed towards creating Ki-43's immediate successor capable of meeting firepower and speed requirements, i.e., Ki-84's lookalike powered by Mitsubishi Kinsei engine (as, again, development of Nakajima's own engines is still forcibly stunted). While it will be slower than real Frank, maneurability and ceiling will be all higher, and service rating, while probably 2 for the first models, won't be as bad as on RL Frank. Also, this plane will be available in 1943.
Oh, and Shiden is still developed normally, but with Mitsubishi Ha-32 engine. In abscence of Jack, Mitsubishi probably won't mind handling its newest versions to another company.
In this case, keep Ki-43, as it enters production before the wartime engine streamlining described above. Both J2M and Ki-44 do not exist. Mitsubishi's fighter design bureau proceeds to work on A7M early, and Nakajima's brainpower is directed towards creating Ki-43's immediate successor capable of meeting firepower and speed requirements, i.e., Ki-84's lookalike powered by Mitsubishi Kinsei engine (as, again, development of Nakajima's own engines is still forcibly stunted). While it will be slower than real Frank, maneurability and ceiling will be all higher, and service rating, while probably 2 for the first models, won't be as bad as on RL Frank. Also, this plane will be available in 1943.
Oh, and Shiden is still developed normally, but with Mitsubishi Ha-32 engine. In abscence of Jack, Mitsubishi probably won't mind handling its newest versions to another company.
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: JFB Beware
Stanislav: Looks great. Have got thoughts but I've been waiting for others to comment to your proposals...
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
-
mike scholl 1
- Posts: 1265
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:20 pm
RE: JFB Beware
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Stanislav: Looks great. Have got thoughts but I've been waiting for others to comment to your proposals...
I'll offer one. The scenario supposes a shorter war in China beefore it begins. Will the pilot skills of the IJN/IJA be adjusted down accordingly? Doesn't "Less war to practice during = less overall skill"?
RE: JFB Beware
ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Stanislav: Looks great. Have got thoughts but I've been waiting for others to comment to your proposals...
I'll offer one. The scenario supposes a shorter war in China beefore it begins. Will the pilot skills of the IJN/IJA be adjusted down accordingly? Doesn't "Less war to practice during = less overall skill"?
Up to a point, but narratively you probably need a significant bump up against the USSR in 1937-38 or so; and, given that (and so probably a fair degree of enthusiasm on the part of the Russians for supplying stuff like aircraft in the 1939-June 1941 period) and two extra years for the Chinese to accumulate a larger starting force, I can imagine it being a more intensive war in the air in the 39-41 period. So, it's probably a bit of a wash, really - hard to quantify, though...
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mike scholl 1
- Posts: 1265
- Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:20 pm
RE: JFB Beware
ORIGINAL: kfsgo
ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1
ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Stanislav: Looks great. Have got thoughts but I've been waiting for others to comment to your proposals...
I'll offer one. The scenario supposes a shorter war in China beefore it begins. Will the pilot skills of the IJN/IJA be adjusted down accordingly? Doesn't "Less war to practice during = less overall skill"?
Up to a point, but narratively you probably need a significant bump up against the USSR in 1937-38 or so; and, given that (and so probably a fair degree of enthusiasm on the part of the Russians for supplying stuff like aircraft in the 1939-June 1941 period) and two extra years for the Chinese to accumulate a larger starting force, I can imagine it being a more intensive war in the air in the 39-41 period. So, it's probably a bit of a wash, really - hard to quantify, though...
Just to play "Devil's Advocate", wouldn't a more intense war against a better trained and equipped Chinese opponant mean much larger casualties for the Japanese? A big drain on an already feable pilot training program? As you say, hard to quantify... [8D]
RE: JFB Beware
ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1
Just to play "Devil's Advocate", wouldn't a more intense war against a better trained and equipped Chinese opponant mean much larger casualties for the Japanese? A big drain on an already feable pilot training program? As you say, hard to quantify... [8D]
Probably not, since equipment and training themselves aren't likely to be significantly different in the 39-41 period versus the RL 37-39 period. There doesn't seem to have been a concerted training effort by the Soviet staff; rather, they did the flying themselves until withdrawn, occasionally in mixed Chinese/Soviet groups, after which the Chinese took over and seem to have been...well, unenthusiastic is probably the nice way of putting it. The USSR sent a whole lot of aircraft to China - I can't remember what the number was offhand but several hundred, primarily I-153/I-16/SB2 with small numbers of DB3 and TB3, and that's a mix that's pretty reflective of Soviet front-line equipment either in 1938 or 1941.
So, everything is pretty much as it was, except you probably have more aircraft coming in given greater Japanese pressure on the USSR and the absence of the need to worry about Spain simultaneously. Realistically, given the Chinese attitude to the whole business, that's a recipe for getting more fighters shot down; they seem to have been considered a deterrent more than anything and of course as the years go by you run into the fact that the Japanese aren't flying A5Ms any more. Any extra bombers are probably more useful - but then the Japanese are several hundred miles short of where they usually are, so you could say they've been taken into account...
RE: JFB Beware
No comment about the planes. For what it's worth, I like my second idea (no interceptors) more and more. Mostly for less severe violation of historical mindset. I can sketch entire model lines if there is no radical comments.
Also, a question (probably to kfsgo): how one can attach several pictures to one post on these forums?
Also, a question (probably to kfsgo): how one can attach several pictures to one post on these forums?
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: JFB Beware
ORIGINAL: FatR
No comment about the planes. For what it's worth, I like my second idea (no interceptors) more and more. Mostly for less severe violation of historical mindset. I can sketch entire model lines if there is no radical comments.
Also, a question (probably to kfsgo): how one can attach several pictures to one post on these forums?
Upload them somewhere else - I use imgur but there are a more or less infinite number of other free image hosts - then link to them. So:
which you then link to as
Code: Select all
[img]http://i.imgur.com/9DxsF.png[/img]
RE: JFB Beware
In the name of avoiding mishaps like ones that plagued Scen 70, I propose for everyone to write at least a general changelog
Base scenario: DaBigBabes 28C (by the way, this means the mod is automatically PBEM only - my concerns about splitting base forces were based on my forgetfulness only).
What I did so far:
Ship classes
1)Removed Musash class of super BBs. Art: yes (technically no, but will add right after finishing with this list).
2)Added Owari class of fast BBs (4 upgrades, the first one updates DP artillery, others add radars/AAMGs as usual).
3)Added Kaga class of pre-treaty BBs (3 upgrades). Art: yes.
4)Modified Nagato BB class to use new DP guns, also earlier and more numerous 25mm AAMGs additions during upgrades.
5)Downgraded initial state of Fuso and Ise BB classes. There was no second modernization. Speed is lower. Maneuver is lower. DP armament is far weaker. Art: no.
6)Added immediately available upgrades for Fuso and Ise BB classes. Two upgrades are available for each - fast BB (with removal of one main turret) and carrier hybrid. Art: yes.
7)Changed upgrades for Kongo BB class. DP armament is strengthened on 43/10. 30mm AAMGs added on 45/1.
8)Niitaka cruiser class is added (not sure if it should be CA or CB). 5 upgrades. Art: probably no (the existing shipside uses a different concept).
9)Modified Mogami cruiser class. No reconstruction to CA, and bigger from the beginning (so, more durability).
10)Displacements and speeds of Japanese battleships and cruisers is brought into accordance with Jentschura's numbers where possible.
EDIT: 11)Changed the facing of extra AAMGs on Maya CA class after 9/43 upgrade and removal of turret #3. Not sure if facing matters that much for them, but some of the extra mounts before bridge should be facing sides.
Ships
1)Added BBs Satsuma, Owari, Kaga and Tosa to Hiroshima/Kure.
2)Added BBs Musashi and Shinano to the construction queue.
3)(Not what I did, but some really weird stuff is going on with cruisers, and I don't mean addition of Thai ones or junk from Russo-Japanese war age... this needs investigating).
Airgroups
1)Added and modified seaplane airgroups for the new battleships as necessary.
Devices
1)Added five naval devices in slots 1771-1776: 30mm Type AAMG, 12cm/45 Type 90 DP Gun, 12cm/55 Type 98 DP Gun, 41cm/50 T96 gun (for Owari class), Type 32 surface search radar.
EDIT: PS: Thanks for your answer, kfsgo.
EDIT2: Those are changes done before other people started working on the files.
Base scenario: DaBigBabes 28C (by the way, this means the mod is automatically PBEM only - my concerns about splitting base forces were based on my forgetfulness only).
What I did so far:
Ship classes
1)Removed Musash class of super BBs. Art: yes (technically no, but will add right after finishing with this list).
2)Added Owari class of fast BBs (4 upgrades, the first one updates DP artillery, others add radars/AAMGs as usual).
3)Added Kaga class of pre-treaty BBs (3 upgrades). Art: yes.
4)Modified Nagato BB class to use new DP guns, also earlier and more numerous 25mm AAMGs additions during upgrades.
5)Downgraded initial state of Fuso and Ise BB classes. There was no second modernization. Speed is lower. Maneuver is lower. DP armament is far weaker. Art: no.
6)Added immediately available upgrades for Fuso and Ise BB classes. Two upgrades are available for each - fast BB (with removal of one main turret) and carrier hybrid. Art: yes.
7)Changed upgrades for Kongo BB class. DP armament is strengthened on 43/10. 30mm AAMGs added on 45/1.
8)Niitaka cruiser class is added (not sure if it should be CA or CB). 5 upgrades. Art: probably no (the existing shipside uses a different concept).
9)Modified Mogami cruiser class. No reconstruction to CA, and bigger from the beginning (so, more durability).
10)Displacements and speeds of Japanese battleships and cruisers is brought into accordance with Jentschura's numbers where possible.
EDIT: 11)Changed the facing of extra AAMGs on Maya CA class after 9/43 upgrade and removal of turret #3. Not sure if facing matters that much for them, but some of the extra mounts before bridge should be facing sides.
Ships
1)Added BBs Satsuma, Owari, Kaga and Tosa to Hiroshima/Kure.
2)Added BBs Musashi and Shinano to the construction queue.
3)(Not what I did, but some really weird stuff is going on with cruisers, and I don't mean addition of Thai ones or junk from Russo-Japanese war age... this needs investigating).
Airgroups
1)Added and modified seaplane airgroups for the new battleships as necessary.
Devices
1)Added five naval devices in slots 1771-1776: 30mm Type AAMG, 12cm/45 Type 90 DP Gun, 12cm/55 Type 98 DP Gun, 41cm/50 T96 gun (for Owari class), Type 32 surface search radar.
EDIT: PS: Thanks for your answer, kfsgo.
EDIT2: Those are changes done before other people started working on the files.
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: JFB Beware
So, long-overdue images (images and concepts are by Vladimir Sidorenko and Eugen Pinak):
Tama class AS conversion:
Tenryu class CM conversion:
Mutsuki class modernization:
Minekaze class modernization:
Kamikaze class modernization:
Reimagined P.51 escort class (oldest DDs conversion):
Just to have all the current art requests in one thread...
Niitaka:
Fuso without their main modernization should look approximately like this:
((c) Dixie), but a beefier superstructure (assuming a limited modernization, similar to earlier reconstructions of Ise/Hyuga) and seaplane crane on the fantail, same as on their shipside in the game. For comparison, the best picture of Ise&Hyuga (two battleships farther from the camera) after their first modernization (that involved superstructure rebuilding), but before machinery replacement, I've found:
A floatplane platform on top of their turrets #5 here should be replaced with the same seaplane crane that is present on their shipside in the game, otherwise it is probably closest to how Ise&Hyuga should look.
Tama class AS conversion:
Tenryu class CM conversion:
Mutsuki class modernization:
Minekaze class modernization:
Kamikaze class modernization:
Reimagined P.51 escort class (oldest DDs conversion):
Just to have all the current art requests in one thread...
Niitaka:
Fuso without their main modernization should look approximately like this:
((c) Dixie), but a beefier superstructure (assuming a limited modernization, similar to earlier reconstructions of Ise/Hyuga) and seaplane crane on the fantail, same as on their shipside in the game. For comparison, the best picture of Ise&Hyuga (two battleships farther from the camera) after their first modernization (that involved superstructure rebuilding), but before machinery replacement, I've found:
A floatplane platform on top of their turrets #5 here should be replaced with the same seaplane crane that is present on their shipside in the game, otherwise it is probably closest to how Ise&Hyuga should look.
The Reluctant Admiral mod team.
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
Take a look at the latest released version of the Reluctant Admiral mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/
RE: JFB Beware
ORIGINAL: FatR
Tama class AS conversion:
Getting there...will edit this post as I finish it & do others. If there are things you don't like about any of them - tell me - modifying existing art is 50 times easier than creating new art & I can pretty much change whatever.
Tenryu class CM conversion:
Mutsuki class modernization:
Minekaze class modernization:
Kamikaze class modernization:
Niitaka (WIP)
RE: JFB Beware
Looks great!
Sorry that I haven't Posted in a while but I had to set-up and get a funeral done. Thankfully this is now complete so I intend to sleep for a couple of days! I have every morning of the week open since I no longer have to dedicate a couple days a week to visitation so I should be able to work on comments here as well as begin some serious design work on a website where we can Post all of our RA and Perfect War material. Hope to catch-up on my AAR as well.
Sorry that I haven't Posted in a while but I had to set-up and get a funeral done. Thankfully this is now complete so I intend to sleep for a couple of days! I have every morning of the week open since I no longer have to dedicate a couple days a week to visitation so I should be able to work on comments here as well as begin some serious design work on a website where we can Post all of our RA and Perfect War material. Hope to catch-up on my AAR as well.
Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.