Desperatly missed weapon for WS

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 3:07 pm

Okay, I guess we're all satisfied with these conventional weapons having x damage at y range doing z heat with a reload time t. Not much to be imagined beyond these since game balance must be kept in mind. A short-range cannon with a bit higher damage and/or fewer slots could be useful, but not a must.

That leaves us with special weapons. We have a weapon killing internals (Meson), one for killing jocks (Neutron), one killing movement (BRG), a few that heat up (NM & Flamer) and that's about it. A weapon targeting sensitive electronics such as computers and scanners only (EMP Pulser?) could help in keeping smaller size titans in play longer, as an Assault without its BC/Scanner is mostly dead weight. To disable several smaller ones, you'd have to work much harder..

Now, what strategies kill most effectively and how they could be countered?

1) Stacking titans. Having a few titans working closely as a team works especially well for Wolfpacks et al. A weapon with a smallish area effect but very insignificant damage vs. just one target would even things out, perhaps? Or a modified Tesla that has a % chance to arc to a nearby target for half damage, especially those in the same hex?

2) Snipers/supports on hilltops. Setting their hexes on fire works sometimes, but there's not always forests available. A way to encourage them to leave their hex could be in order here. How about a smoke/chaff missile, hampering CtH by obscuring vision? AC12/20 range is a limiting factor here.

3) Triple- or quad-AC assaults. You guys have to admit, there's not much that surpasses their fire power. How about adding a recoil rating for the cannons, meaning you'd have to make a piloting check to fire more than just one cannon at a time?

4) Overusing Napalm Missiles. See for a solution under the thread 'Neutron Blasters'.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 4:43 pm

2) *All* ACs can set smoke screens now. And yes, it's in the manual. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 5:12 pm

2) and CtH is not hampered by smoke, only LoS is.

Grah31 · Post by **Grah31** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:14 pm

Ideas for weapons/equipment.

In order to counter the effectiveness of swarms of recon CC titans, how about a physical shield/buckler, whatever you want to call it. A big slab of armour that the jock can use to defend against CC attacks. Make its effectiveness dependent on the jock’s defensive skill – it would make that more sought after. Give a base negative modifier of –10% and increase that in line with how you use skills in other calculations.

Variation – shock buckler – similar but the buckler is charged via PU’s and discharges on a successful/unsuccessful (either is good) CC hit. The shock does some kind of electronics-damaging hit. Maybe a chance to short out the offending CC weapon?

lwchk · Post by **lwchk** » Mon Oct 29, 2001 8:43 pm

Heat seeking missile: Isn't GM already one of that? So it can be distracted by Flares.

But I think that the hit rate of GMs can be determined by heat level of the enemy. Titans with about 100C heat should give a lot of bonus to the firer. Anyway, the bonus should be shown only with a green scan.

ste_mark · Post by **ste_mark** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:48 pm

I know it might be rather complicated, but for a special effect weapon I thought about something like a scanner balloon which can be launched by missile titans and and hovers at 300m so the titans could link their scanner to it and use it for indirect firing.
It would be targetable but hard to hit (being very small). The weapon would occupy 2 o 3 slots... What do you think?

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 4:16 pm

Originally posted by ste_mark:
I know it might be rather complicated, but for a special effect weapon I thought about something like a scanner balloon which can be launched by missile titans and and hovers at 300m so the titans could link their scanner to it and use it for indirect firing.
It would be targetable but hard to hit (being very small). The weapon would occupy 2 o 3 slots... What do you think?

I think that this idea will take the fun out of the game. Visiblity is a big factor and the game will get pretty boring if the map is revealed like this. ToS is a game of squad based "close" combat and would be ruined by things like nuclear missiles, airstrikes and their kind.

firestorm · Post by **firestorm** » Wed Oct 31, 2001 8:51 pm

i agree w/ larkin. although i don't agree with the emphasis he put on close combat... i've had lots of fun bombarding people from well outside their range with LRMs etc. (too bad the moldy old post of what i did to PC was deleted off the old forum... =-) basicly i made him flee w/o getting so much as scratched.... =-D was MUCH fun)

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 3:32 am

In the discussion about armless titans, Eric mentioned that he always wanted a CC weapon for kicking. I think that idea sounds pretty cool, too. Foot spikes or something, so you can kick without knocking your own leg off (Speaking from personal experience here <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ), something that really sucks.

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 4:40 am

Originally posted by tarendelcymir:
In the discussion about armless titans, Eric mentioned that he always wanted a CC weapon for kicking. I think that idea sounds pretty cool, too. Foot spikes or something, so you can kick without knocking your own leg off (Speaking from personal experience here <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ), something that really sucks.

I mentioned it mainly to emphasize that not every idea we have and like gets put into the game.

PrinceCorrin · Post by **PrinceCorrin** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 6:51 am

Originally posted by firestorm:
i agree w/ larkin. although i don't agree with the emphasis he put on close combat... i've had lots of fun bombarding people from well outside their range with LRMs etc. (too bad the moldy old post of what i did to PC was deleted off the old forum... =-) basicly i made him flee w/o getting so much as scratched.... =-D was MUCH fun)

You are digging a grave my little friend. Why don't you battle me, then you can lie in it <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 9:11 am

Originally posted by Larkin [Vicious Byte]:

I think that this idea will take the fun out of the game. Visiblity is a big factor and the game will get pretty boring if the map is revealed like this. ToS is a game of squad based "close" combat and would be ruined by things like nuclear missiles, airstrikes and their kind.

Yeah, LOS is one of the most important tactical aspects of TOS.
If you have to see the map just get on a big hill and jump. You'll definitely show your enemies where you're located. I think this type of weapon isn't allowed by the 'Arena' rules.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 9:30 am

Originally posted by Eric Petersen:

I mentioned it mainly to emphasize that not every idea we have and like gets put into the game.

Regardless, what's wrong with the idea? Larkin did ask for our opinions on new weapons.

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 9:45 am

How about a scan scrambler? (Energy weapon or something). If it hits, the affected titan loses his yellow or green scan and is reduced to a red one.

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 9:50 am

Or an energy drainer? Get hit by this and one/some/all energy weapons are set to their max reload.

Grah31 · Post by **Grah31** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 1:47 pm

Defensive/equipment idea - emergency fire-extinguisher - Weighs a couple of tons, plus one ton 'ammo' for each shot, drastically reduces current heat of own (or even friendly titan in same hex?). Downside - all that cold liquid/gas straight onto hot metal/ceramics/whatever might cause cracking. All armour and/or all systems have a slight chance of taking damage. You cool right down but your skin peels off in ugly lumps!

klichka · Post by **klichka** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 9:42 pm

Hello, I'm a bit new to the forums and to ToS (still a rookie)

but I do have a few suggestions:

----------------------------

Sniper Rifle: (Company Name can be changed)
The Titan Labs SR-54 is a modern sniper rifle

This weapon is outfit with the most advanced in assault technology:

An electronic suite has been carefully placed in the weapon and is accessable with a 'quick-chip' accessory added to either the battle computer or cockpit. The enhancement is exclusive to the sniper rifle and is unusable with any other weapon

(this would weigh around nothing towards tonnage) (wouldn't even be a kilogram most likely)

The Electronic Suite aids in pinpoint targeting, long range compensation, and windage correction which translates to amazing accuracy when used properly.

The Sniper Rifle itself is made to launch a high velocity slug with amazing accuracy.

The SR-54 suffers from being rather bulky and heavy due to the redundancies placed in the weapon to protect the fragile electronics and barrel setting

The SR-54 utilizes external heat regulation sources such as a standard mech heat regulator.

The SR-54 is equip with an electronic governer to help prevent shots from overheating the weapon. Unfortunately the wait periods are rather lengthy for safe firing.

(In lab tests the gun was heavily damaged from heat generated during continuous firing...the level set on the governer will prevent the gun from recieving damage from standard field use)

------------------------

I will post more suggestions later

[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: klichka ]</p>

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Thu Nov 01, 2001 11:37 pm

Personally, I like Titan Labs. We do have an equivalent to the sniper rifle called the Guass Cannon. The GC also has the special characteristic of having non-explosive ammo. Very nice when you overheat.

klichka · Post by **klichka** » Fri Nov 02, 2001 12:38 am

Thank you, and I've got another weapon idea that may be a little iffy...

(BTW the Gauss Cannon doesn't have as much range as it should for a sniper's weapon)

-----------------
Vulcan gun: (Chaingun)

This is essentially the big brother of the machine gun.

The Vulcan gun sporting 6 (or more) barrels is a very versatile weapon with an unmatched rate of fire.

This weapon while having many great features, also has its flaws.

The Vulcan gun's rotating barrels must be spun up to full speed before firing, to put it into simpler terms. The gun is near useless for roles which require quick action for short periods of time. The Vulcan gun is best deployed when sustained fire is neccessary.

Even with the small time neccessary for barrel spinup, the rate usually makes up for this minor setback when used correctly.

The Vulcan gun is deemed reliable under the most extreme conditions when equipped with a heat regulation system. Without any methods for the Vulcan gun to dissipate heat the barrels would most likely warp during normal operation.

The gun comes in a 40mm and 20mm variant (the 20mm generates less heat, weighs less, and carries more ammo, but it does not do the same damage of the 40mm)

Summary:

High Rate of Fire
Ammo May not be very plentiful (it chews through it very quickly) (Make sure it has enough to be useful though)

Tends to Generate Heat very quickly
It may be rather heavy (internal coolant systems)

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Fri Nov 02, 2001 2:52 am

The range restrictions depend mainly on the size of the map you are playing on. I find that most online games are restricted to small maps using mostly duels or tiny teams. IN this situation the GC covers quite a good range. The improvements to the AI will show you the true power of some of these so called underrated weapons.