Ukraine 2022 - Development Thread

[sPzAbt653]

How will you simulate logistics problems seen?

Probably by using the Supply Radius and Supply or HQ Units with Support Squads. We'll have to run some tests because I've never modeled anything like it, I think. It seems that both sides make use of 'home bases', but I'm not sure how they are moving supplies from base to units. It does seem that we may have to make sure that Supply does not travel along the Rail Lines.

Command and Control is apparently a large issue on the Russian side, as they don't teach initiative. Currently the Russian side has low Unit, Formation and Force proficiency. This should keep them from getting too many combat rounds, which reflects low initiative. I think. We'll see how it shakes out.

Ukraine specific Infantry Squads have been added:

[hrfepo1]

Where can I find this scenario?

[ncc1701e]

Hi G! They are in there, in the Rockets & Missiles. I wish there was an index, it would make it easier to find stuff.

Strange, Javelins should be in squads like NLAW, AT-4, ... The treatment of modern weapons by TOAW has always surprised me.

[sPzAbt653]

Where can I find this scenario?

This is the Development Thread [I've added that to the Thread Title], so it is 'In Progress'. You can always check Post #1 to see if it has been posted recently, if you like to follow progress. Currently we are working on updating the Map and creating the OOB's.

[sPzAbt653]

Hi G! They are in there, in the Rockets & Missiles. I wish there was an index, it would make it easier to find stuff.

Strange, Javelins should be in squads like NLAW, AT-4, ... The treatment of modern weapons by TOAW has always surprised me.

This Database isn't from TOAW, it is custom created by 'Josant'. When creating Custom Databases, you don't have complete freewill, so entries are often 'fit in' where they can 'fit'

Thanks again to Josant for creating this Equipment Database, without it the scenario is not possible.

[hrfepo1]

Where can I find this scenario?

This is the Development Thread [I've added that to the Thread Title], so it is 'In Progress'. You can always check Post #1 to see if it has been posted recently, if you like to follow progress. Currently we are working on updating the Map and creating the OOB's.

Thank you so much for letting me know. I have no experience developing scenarios, therefore. I am enjoying these posts. Again, thank you very much!

[JB007]

Good morning, great job but don't you think the map is too big? Have you considered cutting the parts of the map that are not strictly necessary for the scenario? It's my opinion, what do you think? Thanks for your availability, best regards.

[sPzAbt653]

It may be too small ...

I'd rather have to cut it back instead of expanding it. So we will see how this War develops.

[rhinobones]

This is the Development Thread [I've added that to the Thread Title], so it is 'In Progress'. You can always check Post #1 to see if it has been posted recently, if you like to follow progress. Currently we are working on updating the Map and creating the OOB's.

The Russian main effort has switched from the Kiev to eastern region. Sounds like you’ll need a real tricky set of events to make that happen. What are you thinking as an outline of events?

Regards and good luck.

[hrfepo1]

Casualties and losses; a ratio of Russian to Ukrainian Losses?

[sPzAbt653]

The Units and Formations are currently being arranged similar to the one pictured below. The most common units are the Battalions of Brigades and Regiments. The inset at left shows this particular units' composition and characteristics. The inset at lower right shows its formation makeup.

The typical Battalion contains the Formations' other units, such as Artillery, single Inf/Tank Bn's [depending on what type of unit], AA defenses, Engineers, Snipers, etc. I like setting units/formations up like this, as long as it works for the particular scenario. It gives us the type of Combined Arms groups that military's operate with these days. However, I have heard that the Russians are using Bombardment Tactics so they do have a few formations with the Artillery separated out into single units. This may cause us to do the same for Ukraine in order to allow for counter-battery.

[hrfepo1]

Thank you! This thread is an excellent experience in scenario development for those of us who have never done it!

[lion_of_judah]

Kings and Generals youtube channel has a documentary on Phase I of the Russo-Ukraine war. I was able to get a pretty good OOB for the Russians. A Russian BTG has from 600-1000 men, 10 MBT and 70-80 AIFV.

Russo-Ukrainian war-February 24th, 2022

Russian Order of Battle:
Crimea
58th Combined Arms Army- 2x Motor Rifle Divisions, 1x Marine Bde and 2x BTG – (Battalion Tactical Grp)
Northern Front
38th Combined Arms Army – 3x Motor Rifle Brigades, 1 Marine Bde
36th Combined Arms Army- 3x Motor Rifle Brigades
41st Combined Arms Army – 2x Motor Rifle Brigades, 1 Tank Division, 1 Tank Brigade and 1x Motor Rifle Division.
31st Guards Air Assault Brigade
Kharkiv Front
1st Guards Tank Army-2x Motor Rifle Divisions, 1x Motor Rifle Regiment, 3x Motor Rifle Brigades and 1 Tank Brigade.
Donbas Front
20th Combined Arms Army- 1x Tank Regiment, 1 Motor Rifle Regiment and Luhansk Militia
8th Combined Arms Army (Elements) 1x Motor Rifle Bde and Donask Militia’s

Ukrainian Order of Battle:

[sPzAbt653]

Thanks for the info!

So far, for both sides we are using Regiment/Brigade Formations consisting of Battalions.

This is a part of the Russian OOB, for easy of display I highlighted Formations in RED:

[sPzAbt653]

On the left is a Russian Motorized Bn, on the right a Russian Tank Bn:

[lion_of_judah]

where did you find the Ukrainian OOB? Thanks

[sPzAbt653]

Using this one as a starting point:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_ ... ian_forces

So far we've got 222 Ukrainian and 136 Russian units in the OOB. Still working on it.

[sPzAbt653]

As of April 2022, Ukraine possess 38-90 Tochka missile launchers and several hundred missiles.

I wonder how to deal with a limited resource, such as number of missiles. TOAW doesn't have such a limit. If a unit has a missile, it can fire constantly. It can fire all 10 rounds. One missile launcher can fire 10 times per turn, the brigade pictured below can fire 180 missiles per turn, pretty much expending Ukraine's stockpile of SS-21's in one turn.

As a designer I've only dealt with this once. In the Bulge, the German's had limited supplies of shells for much of their artillery. A lot of their batteries fire off their loads during the opening bombardment. So therefore, in the scenario, a lot of the higher level Art Units are withdrawn early in the scenario, to keep them from firing an unavailable amount of shells.
Not sure how to handle this in Ukraine.

This brings up another point concerning number of weapons fired per round and per turn. All of the Infantry Units on both sides have Man Portable AT Weapons. Typical Battalion's have 100 squads, each squad having MPats. Is it reasonable for a Btn to be able to fire about 1000 of them in one turn? Perhaps the number of MPat Squads should be limited, with units made up mostly of non-MPat squads?

This isn't something new. For WWII units, some could have for example 192 AT Rifles that have a low probability of disabling an enemy MBT. However, firing 1920 of them over ten rounds during one turn will cause much damage to MBT's.

[rhinobones]

. . . over ten rounds during one turn will cause much damage to MBT's.

I don’t think the typical player will average 10 rounds per turn. Maybe scale that back to 5 or 6.

Agree that the number of AT shot per turn can easily become excessive. Try a simple formula such as Total Shots per Turn = #Squads X Average #Rounds per Turn. Solve for #Squads. Of course, you’ll need to make an estimate of the Total Shots per Turn and do some testing, but this should get you in the ballpark.

Keep up the good work!

Regards

[lion_of_judah]

for this scenario, how many men are in each squad. I see you have 100 assault rife infantry for a Battalion, so how many men does this represent. I have always had a problem when designing my own scenario's, the correct number of men 1 squad represents. Thanks.