The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: terje439

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Luckly the RN is safe in Colombo

How many fighters with decent pilots do you have to fly CAP here, 'cause Colombo is not neccessarily safe imo, early on the Allies have too few fighters to properly cover the port (atleast that is my experience) if the IJN shows up with some fleet CVs.

Terje

[8|]...noone at the moment...ok, i'll run away back to Karachi/Aden...[:o]

thx

[terje439]

Atleast keep an eye out for an attack here. Those British flattops are easily taken out by two Jap CVs.

Terje

[Ossian]

Wow, ny59giants, that's a very useful and informative list. Thanks for posting that. It's going straight into my info-folder.

[Ossian]

GreyJoy, what's your strategy for submarines? I know the fleet boats are pretty crummy until the torpedoes improve later on, but what about the S boats and the Dutch ones, are you having much luck with them?

[ny59giants]

I am playing both sides using scenario 2, so its not like I'm giving out info that is not know. If you haven't played WIP or AE then you may not know what units belong to what and what troops you should see showing up in early combat. If 4 to 6 divisions were missing at this point, then I would worry that some major operation was underway.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Ossian

GreyJoy, what's your strategy for submarines? I know the fleet boats are pretty crummy until the torpedoes improve later on, but what about the S boats and the Dutch ones, are you having much luck with them?

Gotta say that i'm proceeding a bit like a blind man...i'm using my subs with little order and less results...in CENTPAC mainly around PH as a recon-defensive line (untill i knew KB was in Java) while in SRA i haven't been very lucky so far with my subs...plan now to divide them in 2 groups and send some to India and some to Sydney...

[Ossian]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I am playing both sides using scenario 2, so its not like I'm giving out info that is not know. If you haven't played WIP or AE then you may not know what units belong to what and what troops you should see showing up in early combat. If 4 to 6 divisions were missing at this point, then I would worry that some major operation was underway.

Never played the Japanese so I remain a bit unfamiliar with what forces they can field here and there. It's handy to have it all in one place. Cheers.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I am playing both sides using scenario 2, so its not like I'm giving out info that is not know. If you haven't played WIP or AE then you may not know what units belong to what and what troops you should see showing up in early combat. If 4 to 6 divisions were missing at this point, then I would worry that some major operation was underway.

Haven't payed attention till now to which unit was where...relying only on the intel reports...think i'll have to change my habits...

[Ossian]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Ossian

GreyJoy, what's your strategy for submarines? I know the fleet boats are pretty crummy until the torpedoes improve later on, but what about the S boats and the Dutch ones, are you having much luck with them?

Gotta say that i'm proceeding a bit like a blind man...i'm using my subs with little order and less results...in CENTPAC mainly around PH as a recon-defensive line (untill i knew KB was in Java) while in SRA i haven't been very lucky so far with my subs...plan now to divide them in 2 groups and send some to India and some to Sydney...

The S-boats and the Dutch ones are worth their weight in the early war - the Dutch ones in particular. I've often had good luck with them in the DEI. Fleet boats...not so much..[:D]

[GreyJoy]

What if he manages to conquer the whole China...what about the VPs he can gain with it? May he get autovictory with only historical perimeter and China or will he need another major objective?

[ny59giants]

What if he manages to conquer the whole China...what about the VPs he can gain with it? May he get autovictory with only historical perimeter and China or will he need another major objective?

He will need more that China fro auto victory. However, if he is able to push you back far enough, he may feel he can start to buy out some of the troops to be used elsewhere.


Subs -
American subs Argonaut, Narwhal, and Nautilus can be upgraded to SST in 4/42. I send them to Melbourne early in the war to await upgrade. Afterwards, they are used to pick up bypassed LCUs. Some might be near Rabaul or Port Moresby that can be brought back to Australia for rebuilding.

Dutch subs O19 & O20 can be used to lay mines better than most. They carry M Mk IID Mines (20 built per month), and are not used on normal patrol.

Maneuver rating are different. Look at the Shark, Porpoise, and Perch Class and they have it at 80. They can get into and out of trouble (I look at trouble as being depth charged in shallow sea or base hexes) the best. S-Boats are close at 79. Look at the numerous Gato Class and they have only a 69. Great for patrols in ocean hexes, not shallow or coastal hexes where ASW is better.

Deployments have the Dutch subs ending up in India after the SRA falls. There are not enough British to cover this area. You will need a size 7 port or AS to reload almost all of your subs. I send a lot to the South Pacific early to cover this area and assist in helping PBYs in search. My opponent found out how being lazy near Truk and not using waypoints can be costly. CV Kaga had a bomb hit down near Suva and was returning to Truk. I had a sub in a patrol zone running directly SW from Truk and she got hit with a torpedo. Thus, place some subs in patrol zones that run directly away from Truk (SW, S, SE) and maybe to the north about 4 to 10 hexes away. Using the less than maneuverable Gato Class in parallel patrol zones about 6 to 8 hexes due south of Tokyo. I have them go south for 10 hexes and use about 6 subs. This will cover most of your opponents movements south from here.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

What if he manages to conquer the whole China...what about the VPs he can gain with it? May he get autovictory with only historical perimeter and China or will he need another major objective?

He will need more that China fro auto victory. However, if he is able to push you back far enough, he may feel he can start to buy out some of the troops to be used elsewhere.


Subs -
American subs Argonaut, Narwhal, and Nautilus can be upgraded to SST in 4/42. I send them to Melbourne early in the war to await upgrade. Afterwards, they are used to pick up bypassed LCUs. Some might be near Rabaul or Port Moresby that can be brought back to Australia for rebuilding.

Dutch subs O19 & O20 can be used to lay mines better than most. They carry M Mk IID Mines (20 built per month), and are not used on normal patrol.

Maneuver rating are different. Look at the Shark, Porpoise, and Perch Class and they have it at 80. They can get into and out of trouble (I look at trouble as being depth charged in shallow sea or base hexes) the best. S-Boats are close at 79. Look at the numerous Gato Class and they have only a 69. Great for patrols in ocean hexes, not shallow or coastal hexes where ASW is better.

Deployments have the Dutch subs ending up in India after the SRA falls. There are not enough British to cover this area. You will need a size 7 port or AS to reload almost all of your subs. I send a lot to the South Pacific early to cover this area and assist in helping PBYs in search. My opponent found out how being lazy near Truk and not using waypoints can be costly. CV Kaga had a bomb hit down near Suva and was returning to Truk. I had a sub in a patrol zone running directly SW from Truk and she got hit with a torpedo. Thus, place some subs in patrol zones that run directly away from Truk (SW, S, SE) and maybe to the north about 4 to 10 hexes away. Using the less than maneuverable Gato Class in parallel patrol zones about 6 to 8 hexes due south of Tokyo. I have them go south for 10 hexes and use about 6 subs. This will cover most of your opponents movements south from here.

As always, mate, thanks for your tipps!
I'll have to re-order and re-deploy my whole sub force. I'll try to have some S class subs in the Alutinias, some ocean class at PH and Sydney and the dutch subs in India. I'll also use some Gato class in Indian Ocean. However it will take some time to get there...

I fear, i really fear, he's coming for russia once he had done with China. He could push the whole Jap army which is now operating in China in Manchuria, smash the soviets and win the war before 1.01.1943!...without bothering of Oz, India, Hawaii or other risky targets...

We're on hold for the week end, both spending these 2 days with our GFs...we'll be back tomorrow with a new turn!

Stay tuned[8D]

[ny59giants]

I'll also use some Gato class in Indian Ocean. However it will take some time to get there...

Send those that come in as reinforcements in Panama to go via Cape Town.

[ny59giants]

Another list [:D] This one is more important than some others. What to do with your 'limited' number of construction type engineers available or as early war reinforcement for the Americans?? You need to build up bases (AF, Ports, and Forts), but which ones get the priority?? Some BFs have engineers, but a limited amount (that's why I didn't include them).

151 Combat Eng @ Kodiak (a second part come in at Seattle)
19 Combat Eng @ San Fran (restricted, would need PP, withdrawn in mid-42)
2 USMC Eng Rgt @ Pearl (part of 2nd USMC Div)
34 Combat Eng @ Pearl
47 Const Eng @ San Fran
802 EAB @ Annette Island (restricted, but can be bought out)
804 EAB @ Pearl
808 EAB @ March Field

Reinforcements:
42 Const Rgt - 39 days
110 Combat Eng - 41 days
Bobcat USN SeaBees - 41 days
810 EAB - 47 days
811 EAB - 47 days
43 Const Rgt - 47 days
46 Const Rgt - 47 days
102 Combat Eng - 10 Mar 42

Decision time for AFBs....

Note - each Engineer Vehicle equals 5 engineers. You need over 200 "engineers" to 300 to seriously build up a base quickly.

[darbycmcd]

so first off, good job for jumping in with a challenging player like Rader! I think you are doing fine with specific things, just a couple of thoughts.

First, don't stress so much about China. Really look at what is there, if he takes it all, it really doesn't change the overall equation. So what he gets a few more HI, not so big a deal. He will free up some units but not as much as you might think because he will add lots of garrison requirements. So there will not be quite the numberless legions tramping through the co-prosperity sphere that you think. So the goal in China isn't 'winning' it is making him pay, either in time or losses. So he is blitzing, cool, let him. Just keep him honest with his siege forces.

Second, if you think he will hit Russia, prepare for it. Hole up some dudes in Vlad, but get most of them to the West (or do you say north on this map... or just up, or ??) where the MSR diverges from the border a bit. It is just too easy for him to cup off the coastal area and then you will feel sad But if you move to more defensible terrain and dig in then moving into the Motherland will make HIM very sad Really, you will get way more in the long term if he does beat the crap out of your Chinese guys (not very useful) and activates your Sovs (moderately useful). If you are ready for it and take some precautions to limit his ability to isolate and destroy lots of units in the initial rush you will have a fairly strong defense that will really tax him. And you have enough strength for little forays and raids that can sap him far more than China. So its all good!

Really, as the Allied player you just have to be sort of zen. someone once pointed out that the Japanese in the early war can go anywhere, but they can't go everywhere. So just ride it out and wait for things to settle down, he will not be strong everywhere, it just takes some time.

[GreyJoy]

Well, thanks again guys. Your words and your suggestions are really helping me.

We've done 3 more turns (so to say 6 more days into the war)...things are heating up in China where we're arriving at the Climax...
KB raided Perth, Indian Ocean and Diego Garcia... however in the afternoon i'll try to write down a comprehensive summary of what's happening
 
 

[EUBanana]

I wouldn't worry just yet, my Chinese Army had to face Japanese broken uber-artillery prior to it being patched and a massive strategic bombing campaign from day 1.

They are still in play, just, in 1943.

Hole up in defensive terrain, force him to be constantly having to outflank your forces. These things all take time as ground units move so slowly, and time is on your side.

Never seen anybody attack the Soviets, I'd be wary of the Vladivostock trap, but I don't really see what is to be gained there for him really aside from a new enemy. There are quite a few Soviet rifle division reinforcements later on and good LCUs are something sorely lacking in the Allied OOB, so I woulda thought that attacking the r00skies is not generally a wise idea for Japan.

[jeffk3510]

I too have wondered what you gain from attacking the Soviets.... for what you have to throw at them..

[GreyJoy]

Hi all.

Well Rader has already proven to this board that by mid 42, even if japan hasn't wiped out China yet, it can destroy every single soviet Army south of Chita, conquer all those bases and extabilish a new northern solid perimeter. There's an AAR (Taming the bear) which proves exactly that.

However, at the moment there's nothing much i can do about it. We have an HR that allows 1 week of activation to the soviets...that could be anough to move by rail most of my souther red army and so gaining some time with space...

Anyway, back on track.

It's now Jan 7th 42 and one month of war has exactly passed by.

I'll try to summerize the last 6 days.

Burma

After the Jap breaktrhough east of Rangoon, the Burma Army, defeated and demoralized is rushing to arrive at Mandalay in time, before the jap tanks can cut the retreat road to Ledo...
An abbandoned Rangoon will be tomorrow stormed by Japanese 15th Army and its damned guards regiments.

SRA-DEI-PI.

Nothing much happened here. Manila is under siege but he didn't even started to bomb it (neither by land nor by air).
He landed at Mersin in Malaya and the main jap army just reached Kualalumpur. The days of Singapore are almost over.
In Java he's advancing towards Batavia. In the skies above the city the last 6 days have seen the last fierce resistance of the Dutch fighter force. Our poor pilots, outclassed, outgunned and outnumbered, gave their best and shot down a couple of zeros, but the Dutch air force now cesed to exist.
The last word was sang today, by a bomber squadron which succesfully attacked and sank a jap AK south of Palembang (no Zero CAP here), causing the death of nearly 800 evil japs! [:D]

At the same time the KB, split in two, raided both Perth harbour and Diego Garcia, sinking something like 30 transports (mainly AKLs and AKs). The KB sprung out from nowhere and my cats didn't even spot it! Will have to be more cautious even in these "map corners" cause japan has legs to go pretty everywhere! Luckly my RN is safe...[:D] Thanks!

In NOPAC his dreadfull AMCs come in chasing my transports. After losing 4 of them (unescorted) east of Kodiak i sent my hunters (5 DDs and 2 AMCs of my own). A couple of old DDs found it and badly damaged the bastard (hopefully she won't make it back)...but i lost one DD in exchange [:o].

His subs are driving me nuts between panama, San Diego and PH...that area, which isn't cover by my patrol planes, is the reign of jap subs...they scored several hits on unescorted transports, sinking at least 5 of them.
I'm trying to organizing well escorted convoys...but it's hard...and expensive...and i simply don't have enough naval assets to both guard my capital ships and my convoys...

I'm trying to close the gap between PH and Fijii, sending forces and planes to Palmyra, Canton Is. and Pago Pagp...it will take some time however before a safety corridor can be created.

What else? oh yes, China...well...i'll need a screenshot for that...just know that the situation is growing worse. Everything South of Kweijang is in japs' dirty hands. The pocket of Changsha now is firmly closed and jap armies are advancing in force towards Chungking, covered by hundreds of bombers and zeros...the AVG is harmless... Yenan, Sian and everything south and east of Liuchow is lost. Now i'm simply running trying to get somewhere safe and breath a little bit...but he doesn't give me no rest!!!

Now let's just wait for the capitulation of my last pockets of resistance (Singa, Batavia and Manila) and then we're all looking forward to see where he will go next...the world holds his breath [:)]


EDIT: sorry, didn't want to attach the whole boring combat txt

[ny59giants]

If your being attacked around Addu and Diego Garcia, then you will need to take the longer route and sent ships to Cape Town to/from India and Australia vs going down the western map edge. I would imagine he was trying to get NW of Colombo and come down to hit the base and close off your retreat route north to safety. An expensive picket line you had there.

The highest priority for escorts goes with CVs (at least 6 DDs per TF), then warships, AO/TKs, and finally other transports. You need just one or two with transports for now until you get more.