A Grey Steppe Eagle (loki100 vs Vigabrand)
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
RE: Turns 17-22: 9 October – 12 November 1941
I stopped doing the corps disband thing a while back actually. Nowadays, I'm disbanding airbases more aggressively in lieu of that and just letting the corps expire in July naturally. Imo, this is more efficient in terms of APs. But there are some advantages to disbanding corps instead if AP efficiency isn't your highest priority. Such as asserting control over C&C more quickly.
WitE Alpha Tester
RE: Turns 17-22: 9 October – 12 November 1941
Well...a side effect of the new rules is that you can assign down to corps from higher HQs in the CoC for free. You can overload them, and then disband them. That way, for 1AP, you can freely reassign numerous units, as well as all of the SUs that may have been assigned. So, imo, it is a win-win for the Soviets in terms of AP efficiency, as well as returning manpower to the pool. The corps HQs that are not in the position to take advantage of this tactic are usually left to disband automatically. However, especially in the SW Front area, there are plenty of opportunities to squeeze out a few extra AP worth of reassigns.ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
I stopped doing the corps disband thing a while back actually. Nowadays, I'm disbanding airbases more aggressively in lieu of that and just letting the corps expire in July naturally. Imo, this is more efficient in terms of APs. But there are some advantages to disbanding corps instead if AP efficiency isn't your highest priority. Such as asserting control over C&C more quickly.
RE: Turns 17-22: 9 October – 12 November 1941
yes I selectively disband the corps as well, as IMO it allows the Soviets in key sectors to quickly rebuild CC and to get the SUs to the right places early in the game. Not to mention all those support squads can then be used to bring the army HQs up to 95+% strength early instead of languishing at the corps till they disband....and yes for 1 AP you can also quickly reassign 3-4 divisions to an army command that is then stacked with 6+ support units while all the corps as usually only stuck with 1-2 SU.
RE: Turns 17-22: 9 October – 12 November 1941
Interesting. So maybe disbanding corps has come into its own after all.
I'd have to play around with this and see.
And I can already tell I'm going to have to rethink the factory evacuation. Armament points have been devalued and HI's relative value has gone up. So the optimal evacuation schedule is more complicated now. A good change probably.
I'd have to play around with this and see.
And I can already tell I'm going to have to rethink the factory evacuation. Armament points have been devalued and HI's relative value has gone up. So the optimal evacuation schedule is more complicated now. A good change probably.
WitE Alpha Tester
RE: Turns 17-22: 9 October – 12 November 1941
rather than reply individually I'll offer a joint response.
I must admit I'm pessimistic about T1-4, by that I mean there is not a lot you can do at the micro level that makes much difference. Most German players hit a natural pause (due to logistics) about T4 and at that stage your army is looking less like the cat decided to invade the old GDW WiTE and has the start of a structure.
Up to then the corps are handy as they allow you to keep isolated units in some sort of command (the new 'real' CV option is interesting to see how important this is).
Anyways, for what its worth, I'm happy to let them expire and then rebuild the OOB over T5-6. As Flaviusx suggests, I'd use the admin pts to clean out your air base OOB. All those SAD bases, naval air commands and a couple of the BAK commands net you a lot of manpower into the pool at an early stage. Add in a few, judicious, 14 pt purchases of FZs and you don't have that much left for corps disbands.
All in all, the new systems save a lot of admin pts, but its still tight over the very early game.
The evac game is much more fun. I've started leaving stuff in the Urals that has high transport values and limited use (like some of those tank divisions that turn up) till October to save rail capacity. Also you clearly need to be prepared to lose more of your army to buy time, but if you lose too much then you may end spending too much of that saved capacity simply replacing what you have lost.
I must admit I'm pessimistic about T1-4, by that I mean there is not a lot you can do at the micro level that makes much difference. Most German players hit a natural pause (due to logistics) about T4 and at that stage your army is looking less like the cat decided to invade the old GDW WiTE and has the start of a structure.
Up to then the corps are handy as they allow you to keep isolated units in some sort of command (the new 'real' CV option is interesting to see how important this is).
Anyways, for what its worth, I'm happy to let them expire and then rebuild the OOB over T5-6. As Flaviusx suggests, I'd use the admin pts to clean out your air base OOB. All those SAD bases, naval air commands and a couple of the BAK commands net you a lot of manpower into the pool at an early stage. Add in a few, judicious, 14 pt purchases of FZs and you don't have that much left for corps disbands.
All in all, the new systems save a lot of admin pts, but its still tight over the very early game.
The evac game is much more fun. I've started leaving stuff in the Urals that has high transport values and limited use (like some of those tank divisions that turn up) till October to save rail capacity. Also you clearly need to be prepared to lose more of your army to buy time, but if you lose too much then you may end spending too much of that saved capacity simply replacing what you have lost.
Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
The start of December saw a strange calm fall over most of the front lines. Here and there Soviet units were still moving up to the German defensive lines. In the south, Soviet and Romanian bombers traded raids on Ploesti and Odessa respectively.
On some sectors limited skirmishes took place as both sides looked for local advantages. Kalinin Front, seeking to test the strength of the German forces between Smolensk and Velikie-Luki launched a few localised attacks.
On the eve of the counterattack, Soviet forces on the critical Velikie Luki-Smolensk-Bryansk sector (effectively most of NW Front and all of Kalinin, Volkhov and Western Fronts) came to 1,730,000 men, 2,600 tanks and 15,500 guns. Equally the bulk of the VVS' most modern planes were moved to forward airbases and 1,850 planes were available to support combat operations (60% bombers, 40% fighters).
(Yak-1 deployed near Rzhev)
Elsewhere Soviet forces were spread out more thinly as most spare reinforcements went to the southern Ukraine.
Even as the limited fighting on the Kalinin Front sector started to escalate, the rest of the long front remained quiet.
(Soviet sappers clearing routes in minefields in preparation for the main attacks)
Finally, in the early dawn light of the 4 December, the opening salvos were fired. Artillery assigned to NW Front's 11 Army opened up on the defensive positions of V Corps west of Velikie Luki. Within 30 minutes Soviet attacks went in across the front from Lake Ladoga to the mouth of the Dneipr.
The start of December saw a strange calm fall over most of the front lines. Here and there Soviet units were still moving up to the German defensive lines. In the south, Soviet and Romanian bombers traded raids on Ploesti and Odessa respectively.
On some sectors limited skirmishes took place as both sides looked for local advantages. Kalinin Front, seeking to test the strength of the German forces between Smolensk and Velikie-Luki launched a few localised attacks.
On the eve of the counterattack, Soviet forces on the critical Velikie Luki-Smolensk-Bryansk sector (effectively most of NW Front and all of Kalinin, Volkhov and Western Fronts) came to 1,730,000 men, 2,600 tanks and 15,500 guns. Equally the bulk of the VVS' most modern planes were moved to forward airbases and 1,850 planes were available to support combat operations (60% bombers, 40% fighters).
(Yak-1 deployed near Rzhev)
Elsewhere Soviet forces were spread out more thinly as most spare reinforcements went to the southern Ukraine.
Even as the limited fighting on the Kalinin Front sector started to escalate, the rest of the long front remained quiet.
(Soviet sappers clearing routes in minefields in preparation for the main attacks)
Finally, in the early dawn light of the 4 December, the opening salvos were fired. Artillery assigned to NW Front's 11 Army opened up on the defensive positions of V Corps west of Velikie Luki. Within 30 minutes Soviet attacks went in across the front from Lake Ladoga to the mouth of the Dneipr.
RE: Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
Well me and Peltons game is up to turn 9 so if I can survive until winter will start to give a better look of the Soviets in the long haul.
My other game is now on turn 8
I will say against the Lvov opening its very, very hard for the soviets to get their industry out at 6k per armaments/vehicle and 10k per heavy industry. At around 130-140k rail available if your not moving much if any units per turn and only starting on turn 3.
As the Lvov opening wipes out the Soviets ability to effectively resist in the south against a strong German player. All its takes is for 1 or 2 of the big cities in the south to fall before you get the industry out and you are already knocked under 1942 start levels for Soviet industry. Im playing 2 games right now 1 vs pelton and 1 vs lowtech where we are playing more historical....the Soviets are still losing alot of men and the Germans are still advancing well just it slowed them down a couple turns is all really. I also played historical and went with a more aggressive forward defense in the south so have no lost most of the troops that were saved but it did buy time.
As to AP use well I spend them about as fast as they come in really for alot of reasons and havent even started replacing most of my leaders to more competent types. The Soviets need support units IMO to stand a chance in the early game lots of sappers and heavy artillery. Since a given battle can get up to 6+ support units if ur general rolls well I always assigned 6 artillery and at least 2+ regiments of sappers to every army I think will be in heavy combat. If I want to dig alot esp important in the early game as a fort lvl or two might stop the first attack I assign 4+ regiments of sappers to that army. Seems to be working as intended as my armies with lots of Sappers are digging in fairly quickly.
My other game is now on turn 8
I will say against the Lvov opening its very, very hard for the soviets to get their industry out at 6k per armaments/vehicle and 10k per heavy industry. At around 130-140k rail available if your not moving much if any units per turn and only starting on turn 3.
As the Lvov opening wipes out the Soviets ability to effectively resist in the south against a strong German player. All its takes is for 1 or 2 of the big cities in the south to fall before you get the industry out and you are already knocked under 1942 start levels for Soviet industry. Im playing 2 games right now 1 vs pelton and 1 vs lowtech where we are playing more historical....the Soviets are still losing alot of men and the Germans are still advancing well just it slowed them down a couple turns is all really. I also played historical and went with a more aggressive forward defense in the south so have no lost most of the troops that were saved but it did buy time.
As to AP use well I spend them about as fast as they come in really for alot of reasons and havent even started replacing most of my leaders to more competent types. The Soviets need support units IMO to stand a chance in the early game lots of sappers and heavy artillery. Since a given battle can get up to 6+ support units if ur general rolls well I always assigned 6 artillery and at least 2+ regiments of sappers to every army I think will be in heavy combat. If I want to dig alot esp important in the early game as a fort lvl or two might stop the first attack I assign 4+ regiments of sappers to that army. Seems to be working as intended as my armies with lots of Sappers are digging in fairly quickly.
RE: Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
ORIGINAL: chaos45
Well me and Peltons game is up to turn 9 so if I can survive until winter will start to give a better look of the Soviets in the long haul.
My other game is now on turn 8
I will say against the Lvov opening its very, very hard for the soviets to get their industry out at 6k per armaments/vehicle and 10k per heavy industry. At around 130-140k rail available if your not moving much if any units per turn and only starting on turn 3.
As the Lvov opening wipes out the Soviets ability to effectively resist in the south against a strong German player. All its takes is for 1 or 2 of the big cities in the south to fall before you get the industry out and you are already knocked under 1942 start levels for Soviet industry. Im playing 2 games right now 1 vs pelton and 1 vs lowtech where we are playing more historical....the Soviets are still losing alot of men and the Germans are still advancing well just it slowed them down a couple turns is all really. I also played historical and went with a more aggressive forward defense in the south so have no lost most of the troops that were saved but it did buy time.
As to AP use well I spend them about as fast as they come in really for alot of reasons and havent even started replacing most of my leaders to more competent types. The Soviets need support units IMO to stand a chance in the early game lots of sappers and heavy artillery. Since a given battle can get up to 6+ support units if ur general rolls well I always assigned 6 artillery and at least 2+ regiments of sappers to every army I think will be in heavy combat. If I want to dig alot esp important in the early game as a fort lvl or two might stop the first attack I assign 4+ regiments of sappers to that army. Seems to be working as intended as my armies with lots of Sappers are digging in fairly quickly.
I'd agree with the relative importance of Lvov, it seems to produce two totally different games in consequence and you can't really compare those where the German player agrees to some (realistic) restraint (in return for some other agreements) and those who exploit the unrealistic capacity that exists in the south for the Germans.
I end up with the OOB you use but not in 1941 apart from for a few key armies. I'd rather stock up on arms pts to deal with the hit of the returning units and then to build a 'reserve' army of low TOE rifle brigades as the basis for the 1942 army (most of these will be lost in pockets but I think the only solution to 1942 is sheer weight of numbers). The other advantage to a more pared down approach to SUs in 1941 is you are that bit more likely to convert them to Gds as the same units will be committed far more often.
RE: Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
Yes but your still limited to 5% guards in 1941 correct? or has that been changed in a patch.
So the bigger your army is the more guards units you are allowed. 100 divisions = 5 guards, 200 = 10 and so forth.
So the bigger your army is the more guards units you are allowed. 100 divisions = 5 guards, 200 = 10 and so forth.
Turn 25: 4-10 December 1941
Turn 25: 4-10 December 1941
Ever since the Germans halted their offensive Stavka had been planning a counter attack. One major problem was that the substantial losses of tanks in the summer (and the ineffectiveness of the pre-war Tank Divisions) had left the Red Army short of mobile forces.
Order of Battle
To address this, 4 Armies (4, 37, 38 and 40) were re-organised to include the bulk of the cavalry forces and the few fully equipped armoured formations [1]. Typically these included 4 of the freshly created cavalry corps, with their own specialist tank battalion, additional combat engineers and a mixture of AA, AT and more engineering assets. The few remaining Tank Divisions and the small number of fully equipped tank brigades were also assigned to these formations.
In addition, a number of infantry armies were identified as the main offensive force and allocated the best commanders. Mostly concentrated in Kalinin, Volkhov and North Western Fronts these were also assigned the best rifle divisions (including the elite formations drawn from Siberia), heavy artillery and the new katyusha rocket launchers. The precise OOB varied according to what units had been available but the intention was to concentrate the offensive power of the Red Army in a few formations.
Velikie Luki-Smolensk battles
Fighting on this sector had been going on for the last two weeks as the Soviets probed the German defensive lines. However, 4 December brought a huge escalation. The opening blow was by 11 Army north west of Velikie Luki where elements of Konrad's badly spread out V Corps were swept from their defensive positions. However, to the south, the Germans managed to hold off an attack by 22 Army preventing the Soviets from enveloping the city.
However, NW Front's offensive was the secondary effort. By the 5th, Kalinin Front was in position and 31 Army overwhelmed V Corps' southern flank near Demidov and 20 Army shattered the defensive positions of 23 Corps, allowing other Soviet units to move into the gap between the German strongpoints.
(Soviet infantry attack in the Smolensk sector)
In the meantime Western Front struck the German lines north of Bryansk. The opening attack by 10 Army was held but supporting blows by 13 Army overran an exposed salient and started the process of unravelling the strong German defensive positions on this sector.
Sumy-Poltava battles
The opening blows in the Ukraine were around Sumy. Elements of SW Front quickly forced Hungarian units from their defensive positions on the Psel.
To the south, advanced units of 9 Army failed to break the German lines, but 19 Army forced them back around Poltava.
The rest of the Ukraine was quiet as Soviet units were still moving into contact with the German defensive lines. The exception was in the far south where elements of Coastal Army overran some exposed Romanian positions.
Despite the successes, Stavka was worried at the lack of German armoured formations. Reconnaissance flights and partisan reports indicated the bulk had been withdrawn but it was not clear if the Soviets were being drawn forward into a trap.
(German armour being withdrawn to the rear)[2]
Losses reflected this lack of both armour and air protection. In a weeks fighting the Germans lost 15,000 men (almost 3,000 killed), 2 tanks and 4 planes and the Soviets lost 31,000 men (over 10,000 killed), 150 tanks and 60 planes.
[1] – I'm leaving most of the tank brigades at 50% TOE to save manpower and arms pts and to ensure that my few replacement tanks are assigned to key formations. I think, at this stage, that independent tank battalions are a better use of tanks than the tank brigades.
[2] – think the tank is a captured French S-35?
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We were overwhelmed with work. Messages to and from every Front arrived all day long. Morale was high, the opening news from west of Moscow seemed to indicate that our troops would overwhelm the Germans. Of course, I kept an eye on any messages from Leningrad Front.
It had lost the elite units that had fought on that sector in September but many of the rifle divisions had been raised in Leningrad, Novgorod or Pskov. What they lacked in training they made up with in enthusiasm. Unfortunately the opening blow by 33 and 55 Armies saw heavy losses as Finnish machine gunners cut down our men as they tried to cross the frozen Volkhov.
At the time it was not clear why we were sacrificing so many men attacking such well defended positions.
Ever since the Germans halted their offensive Stavka had been planning a counter attack. One major problem was that the substantial losses of tanks in the summer (and the ineffectiveness of the pre-war Tank Divisions) had left the Red Army short of mobile forces.
Order of Battle
To address this, 4 Armies (4, 37, 38 and 40) were re-organised to include the bulk of the cavalry forces and the few fully equipped armoured formations [1]. Typically these included 4 of the freshly created cavalry corps, with their own specialist tank battalion, additional combat engineers and a mixture of AA, AT and more engineering assets. The few remaining Tank Divisions and the small number of fully equipped tank brigades were also assigned to these formations.
In addition, a number of infantry armies were identified as the main offensive force and allocated the best commanders. Mostly concentrated in Kalinin, Volkhov and North Western Fronts these were also assigned the best rifle divisions (including the elite formations drawn from Siberia), heavy artillery and the new katyusha rocket launchers. The precise OOB varied according to what units had been available but the intention was to concentrate the offensive power of the Red Army in a few formations.
Velikie Luki-Smolensk battles
Fighting on this sector had been going on for the last two weeks as the Soviets probed the German defensive lines. However, 4 December brought a huge escalation. The opening blow was by 11 Army north west of Velikie Luki where elements of Konrad's badly spread out V Corps were swept from their defensive positions. However, to the south, the Germans managed to hold off an attack by 22 Army preventing the Soviets from enveloping the city.
However, NW Front's offensive was the secondary effort. By the 5th, Kalinin Front was in position and 31 Army overwhelmed V Corps' southern flank near Demidov and 20 Army shattered the defensive positions of 23 Corps, allowing other Soviet units to move into the gap between the German strongpoints.
(Soviet infantry attack in the Smolensk sector)
In the meantime Western Front struck the German lines north of Bryansk. The opening attack by 10 Army was held but supporting blows by 13 Army overran an exposed salient and started the process of unravelling the strong German defensive positions on this sector.
Sumy-Poltava battles
The opening blows in the Ukraine were around Sumy. Elements of SW Front quickly forced Hungarian units from their defensive positions on the Psel.
To the south, advanced units of 9 Army failed to break the German lines, but 19 Army forced them back around Poltava.
The rest of the Ukraine was quiet as Soviet units were still moving into contact with the German defensive lines. The exception was in the far south where elements of Coastal Army overran some exposed Romanian positions.
Despite the successes, Stavka was worried at the lack of German armoured formations. Reconnaissance flights and partisan reports indicated the bulk had been withdrawn but it was not clear if the Soviets were being drawn forward into a trap.
(German armour being withdrawn to the rear)[2]
Losses reflected this lack of both armour and air protection. In a weeks fighting the Germans lost 15,000 men (almost 3,000 killed), 2 tanks and 4 planes and the Soviets lost 31,000 men (over 10,000 killed), 150 tanks and 60 planes.
[1] – I'm leaving most of the tank brigades at 50% TOE to save manpower and arms pts and to ensure that my few replacement tanks are assigned to key formations. I think, at this stage, that independent tank battalions are a better use of tanks than the tank brigades.
[2] – think the tank is a captured French S-35?
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We were overwhelmed with work. Messages to and from every Front arrived all day long. Morale was high, the opening news from west of Moscow seemed to indicate that our troops would overwhelm the Germans. Of course, I kept an eye on any messages from Leningrad Front.
It had lost the elite units that had fought on that sector in September but many of the rifle divisions had been raised in Leningrad, Novgorod or Pskov. What they lacked in training they made up with in enthusiasm. Unfortunately the opening blow by 33 and 55 Armies saw heavy losses as Finnish machine gunners cut down our men as they tried to cross the frozen Volkhov.
At the time it was not clear why we were sacrificing so many men attacking such well defended positions.
RE: Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
ORIGINAL: chaos45
Yes but your still limited to 5% guards in 1941 correct? or has that been changed in a patch.
So the bigger your army is the more guards units you are allowed. 100 divisions = 5 guards, 200 = 10 and so forth.
The limit is just about rifle divisions, so in theory all your art SUs can be Gds and so on.
RE: Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
Does the limit also apply to cavalry divisions?
RE: Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
ORIGINAL: chaos45
Does the limit also apply to cavalry divisions?
No, I think the % cap only applies to rifle divisions, so in theory every other formation (mountain/tank/mech/cav/support units) could be Gds.
RE: Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
good to know thanks [:)]
Never played through as the Soviets so learning as I go vs Pelton...just lots of counter based board game experience [8D]
Never played through as the Soviets so learning as I go vs Pelton...just lots of counter based board game experience [8D]
RE: Turn 24: 27 November – 3 December 1941
ORIGINAL: loki100
No, I think the % cap only applies to rifle divisions, so in theory every other formation (mountain/tank/mech/cav/support units) could be Gds.
Other groups also have caps, but indeed cavalry (and airborne) does not.
Turn 26: 11-17 December 1941
Turn 26: 11-17 December 1941
The second week of the Soviet offensive saw an escalation of the fighting as more Soviet formations came into contact with the German defensive line. The Volkhov sector saw a repeat of the previous weeks costly and failed attacks as the Soviets tried to breach the Finnish defensive lines but elsewhere Soviet units started to make gains.
Stavka was quick to reward assault formations that distinguished themselves with Guards status being given to two more rifle divisions.
Velikie Luki – Smolensk
Kalinin Front renewed its offensive on this sector.
At the junction with NW Front, 31 Army hit the spread out 6 Infantry Corps but were halted by the intervention of the German 5 Corps just north of the small town of Surazh.
However, the main blow was landed by 20 and 32 Armies. These combined to shattered the defensive lines of 23 Infantry Corps and were able to threaten the rear of German units facing the Volkhov Front.
The liberation of Bryansk was one of Stavka's key goals. Western Front had disrupted the German defences to the north in the opening attacks but the German defence remained well dug in using the broken ground north of the Desna. A major attack by 1 Shock Army on this line was held but elements of Western Front were able to move through the breaches opened in the previous week maintaining the pressure on the Germans.
For the moment the German defence on this sector was too strong and Stavka brought up the main assault armies for Western and Bryansk Front in an attempt to overwhelm the Germans and turn the southern flank of their defensive line.
Sumy-Poltava
On this sector SW and S Fronts continued to inflict heavy losses on the Germans and their allies.
At Sumy, the opening attack by 12 Army was held but 6 Army made substantial gains to the north where the axis front was held by Hungarian formations. With its flank exposed, their 56 Infantry was then forced to fall back
The renewal of the offensive at Poltava was assisted by a massive partisan attack on the rail lines supplying the Germans.
(partisan sabotage near Poltava)
The opening attack was held but Soviet cavalry were able to force the Vorskla breaching the German centre. With the German line disrupted, 9 Army added to the pressure by crossing the river in force and created a solid bulge in the German lines stretched out on this sector.
(Soviet cavalry in action)
To the south, the front was mostly quiet apart from on the lower Dneipr where elements of Coastal Army inflicted heavy losses on the defending Romanians.
Stavka's pressure on Romania was maintained by continuing to bomb Ploesti.
Losses for both sides escalated. The Germans lost 32,000 men (4,000 killed) but very few tanks or planes as they had effectively abandoned their infantry to try and hold the Soviet offensive. Soviet losses were 44,000 men (14,000 killed), 150 tanks and 60 planes.
The second week of the Soviet offensive saw an escalation of the fighting as more Soviet formations came into contact with the German defensive line. The Volkhov sector saw a repeat of the previous weeks costly and failed attacks as the Soviets tried to breach the Finnish defensive lines but elsewhere Soviet units started to make gains.
Stavka was quick to reward assault formations that distinguished themselves with Guards status being given to two more rifle divisions.
Velikie Luki – Smolensk
Kalinin Front renewed its offensive on this sector.
At the junction with NW Front, 31 Army hit the spread out 6 Infantry Corps but were halted by the intervention of the German 5 Corps just north of the small town of Surazh.
However, the main blow was landed by 20 and 32 Armies. These combined to shattered the defensive lines of 23 Infantry Corps and were able to threaten the rear of German units facing the Volkhov Front.
The liberation of Bryansk was one of Stavka's key goals. Western Front had disrupted the German defences to the north in the opening attacks but the German defence remained well dug in using the broken ground north of the Desna. A major attack by 1 Shock Army on this line was held but elements of Western Front were able to move through the breaches opened in the previous week maintaining the pressure on the Germans.
For the moment the German defence on this sector was too strong and Stavka brought up the main assault armies for Western and Bryansk Front in an attempt to overwhelm the Germans and turn the southern flank of their defensive line.
Sumy-Poltava
On this sector SW and S Fronts continued to inflict heavy losses on the Germans and their allies.
At Sumy, the opening attack by 12 Army was held but 6 Army made substantial gains to the north where the axis front was held by Hungarian formations. With its flank exposed, their 56 Infantry was then forced to fall back
The renewal of the offensive at Poltava was assisted by a massive partisan attack on the rail lines supplying the Germans.
(partisan sabotage near Poltava)
The opening attack was held but Soviet cavalry were able to force the Vorskla breaching the German centre. With the German line disrupted, 9 Army added to the pressure by crossing the river in force and created a solid bulge in the German lines stretched out on this sector.
(Soviet cavalry in action)
To the south, the front was mostly quiet apart from on the lower Dneipr where elements of Coastal Army inflicted heavy losses on the defending Romanians.
Stavka's pressure on Romania was maintained by continuing to bomb Ploesti.
Losses for both sides escalated. The Germans lost 32,000 men (4,000 killed) but very few tanks or planes as they had effectively abandoned their infantry to try and hold the Soviet offensive. Soviet losses were 44,000 men (14,000 killed), 150 tanks and 60 planes.
Turn 27: 18-24 December 1941
Turn 27: 18-24 December 1941
By the third week of December, the Soviet offensive hit the German lines all along the front. On the Volkhov, pressure was applied to the Finnish defenders but again all the attacks failed with heavy losses. Elsewhere not only did the attacking armies score localised successes but Stavka started to switch the focus of individual armies. The prospect of forcing the Germans to either abandon their defensive positions or risk encirclement opened up.
Velikie Luki-Smolensk
At Velikie Luki, for the first time, the Germans struck back and launched a limited counterattack using 7 Panzer and some supporting infantry formations.
However, any relief for their battered formations was short lived. 11 Army to the north and 22 Army to the south of the town drove in their front lines gradually threatening a major encirclement.
(Soviet artillery in action near Smolensk)
In turn, Kalinin Front made substantial gains around Smolensk and threatened the rear of the German units grimly holding on around Bryansk. Unfortunately an attempt to use the armoured formations of 52 Army to exploit the victories by the infantry failed, leading to heavy tank losses.
Of little operational importance, but of great political significance, was 31 Army re-establishing a Soviet presence in Bielorussia for the first time since late August.
Bryansk
Western and Bryansk Fronts had finally brought up their mobile reserves and launched a series of attacks aimed at encircling Bryansk.
In a rare all cavalry action, 4 Army swept away the 6 SS Cavalry to the north of the city and pushed across the Desna.
(Soviet cavalry in action on the Desna)
13 Army then took advantage of the chaos and drove German infantry back from their positions screening Dubrovka. The only flaw in the development of the northern wing of the Bryansk offensive was that 1 Shock Army again failed to breach the German lines south of Spas-Demyansk.
To the south of Bryansk, the German lines were quickly broken. By 18 December Soviet formations from the Bryansk Front had come into contact with the Slovakian forces defending the gap between AGC and AGS to the south of Bryansk.
Even before the opening salvos of Soviet artillery, they were effectively isolated by a massive partisan offensive behind their lines.
Demoralised, the Slovakians were swept from their trenches by 21 Army and a 20 mile gap was torn in the sector held by their 55 Infantry Corps. Mobile units of 40 Army exploited the opportunity cutting deep into the German lines of supply and communications.
Sumy-Poltava
The German lines north of Sumy came under heavy pressure. With their northern flank threatened by Bryansk Front, the Germans faced both the threat of SW Front to their front and of encirclement by 40 Army. SW Front exploited the confusion. 6 and 26 Armies drove in Hungarian units around Sumy.
To the south, 12 Army over-ran elements of the German 29 Infantry Corps and S Front's 9 Army expanded the gap driven between the German units holding Sumy and those at Poltava.
Lower Dneipr
In the far south, Caucasus Front slowly moved its mobile units into contact with the Romanians holding the lower Dneipr. In turn, elements of Trans-Caucasus Front screened the strong German defences between Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporzhye.
Coastal Army continued its offensive against the Romanian units trying to hold the south back of the Dneipr, making some progress but in need of reinforcements if it was to succeed in its goal of relieving the siege of Odessa.
Further pressure was applied to the battered Romanians as Soviet bombers continued to bomb Ploesti with impunity.
OOB
Although the Soviets notionally had substantial numbers of tanks, most were obsolete. The flaw of relying on T-26s and BT-7s had been shown in the disastrous attack by 52 Army. Out of almost 9,000 tanks, only 1,900 were modern T-34s or KV-1s.
Losses on both sides steadily increased as the fighting became more general across the front. The Germans lost almost 37,000 men (5,000 killed) and 14 tanks, Soviet losses were 50,000 men (12,000 killed in action) and 230 tanks.
By the third week of December, the Soviet offensive hit the German lines all along the front. On the Volkhov, pressure was applied to the Finnish defenders but again all the attacks failed with heavy losses. Elsewhere not only did the attacking armies score localised successes but Stavka started to switch the focus of individual armies. The prospect of forcing the Germans to either abandon their defensive positions or risk encirclement opened up.
Velikie Luki-Smolensk
At Velikie Luki, for the first time, the Germans struck back and launched a limited counterattack using 7 Panzer and some supporting infantry formations.
However, any relief for their battered formations was short lived. 11 Army to the north and 22 Army to the south of the town drove in their front lines gradually threatening a major encirclement.
(Soviet artillery in action near Smolensk)
In turn, Kalinin Front made substantial gains around Smolensk and threatened the rear of the German units grimly holding on around Bryansk. Unfortunately an attempt to use the armoured formations of 52 Army to exploit the victories by the infantry failed, leading to heavy tank losses.
Of little operational importance, but of great political significance, was 31 Army re-establishing a Soviet presence in Bielorussia for the first time since late August.
Bryansk
Western and Bryansk Fronts had finally brought up their mobile reserves and launched a series of attacks aimed at encircling Bryansk.
In a rare all cavalry action, 4 Army swept away the 6 SS Cavalry to the north of the city and pushed across the Desna.
(Soviet cavalry in action on the Desna)
13 Army then took advantage of the chaos and drove German infantry back from their positions screening Dubrovka. The only flaw in the development of the northern wing of the Bryansk offensive was that 1 Shock Army again failed to breach the German lines south of Spas-Demyansk.
To the south of Bryansk, the German lines were quickly broken. By 18 December Soviet formations from the Bryansk Front had come into contact with the Slovakian forces defending the gap between AGC and AGS to the south of Bryansk.
Even before the opening salvos of Soviet artillery, they were effectively isolated by a massive partisan offensive behind their lines.
Demoralised, the Slovakians were swept from their trenches by 21 Army and a 20 mile gap was torn in the sector held by their 55 Infantry Corps. Mobile units of 40 Army exploited the opportunity cutting deep into the German lines of supply and communications.
Sumy-Poltava
The German lines north of Sumy came under heavy pressure. With their northern flank threatened by Bryansk Front, the Germans faced both the threat of SW Front to their front and of encirclement by 40 Army. SW Front exploited the confusion. 6 and 26 Armies drove in Hungarian units around Sumy.
To the south, 12 Army over-ran elements of the German 29 Infantry Corps and S Front's 9 Army expanded the gap driven between the German units holding Sumy and those at Poltava.
Lower Dneipr
In the far south, Caucasus Front slowly moved its mobile units into contact with the Romanians holding the lower Dneipr. In turn, elements of Trans-Caucasus Front screened the strong German defences between Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporzhye.
Coastal Army continued its offensive against the Romanian units trying to hold the south back of the Dneipr, making some progress but in need of reinforcements if it was to succeed in its goal of relieving the siege of Odessa.
Further pressure was applied to the battered Romanians as Soviet bombers continued to bomb Ploesti with impunity.
OOB
Although the Soviets notionally had substantial numbers of tanks, most were obsolete. The flaw of relying on T-26s and BT-7s had been shown in the disastrous attack by 52 Army. Out of almost 9,000 tanks, only 1,900 were modern T-34s or KV-1s.
Losses on both sides steadily increased as the fighting became more general across the front. The Germans lost almost 37,000 men (5,000 killed) and 14 tanks, Soviet losses were 50,000 men (12,000 killed in action) and 230 tanks.
RE: Turn 27: 18-24 December 1941
Very interesting gambit from the german player he let his Infs fight without the Pzd's
He will get a good Pz Army (3500 Pz available!) but it will surely be at the price of high Inf losses.
Do you have a spreadsheet of the losses?
And as always, your AAR can be read like a book. Superb work!
He will get a good Pz Army (3500 Pz available!) but it will surely be at the price of high Inf losses.
Do you have a spreadsheet of the losses?
And as always, your AAR can be read like a book. Superb work!
GHC 9-0-3
SHC 10-0-4
SHC 10-0-4
RE: Turn 27: 18-24 December 1941
ORIGINAL: STEF78
Very interesting gambit from the german player he let his Infs fight without the Pzd's
He will get a good Pz Army (3500 Pz available!) but it will surely be at the price of high Inf losses.
Do you have a spreadsheet of the losses?
And as always, your AAR can be read like a book. Superb work!
aye it'll be interesting, he's clearly trading off damaged morale and heavy losses in the bulk of his army for a small elite force in 1942. Equally by defending this way I'm getting a lot of Gds so that is part of the gamble, if I end up producing a lot of Gds rifle corps in mid-42 that could offset his very fresh panzers.
we've just played out T30 and for the whole game he has 93,000 dead (25,000 since 4 December), 6,200 prisoners (3,600), 390,000 disabled (130,000). Depending on what he does in the next two turns I'm likely to trap 2-4 divisions or he needs to risk some of his reserves. But over this period he's only lost 70 tanks. He's also pulled the Luftwaffe away from combat.
so I'm expecting a huge battering in June with loads of fresh and well supported armoured and motorised formations. But it will have to against a small sector of the front (at least at first) and runs the risk of being blocked. I've never seen someone do this before so its all rather scary to be honest. I think I'd rather be facing his armour now and make next to no gains.
edit - also Odessa is an unknown factor. If I hold to June, flip to a rifle corps and bring in another corps and a HQ he has a real headache, its already tieing down about 12 Romanian divisions.
RE: Turn 27: 18-24 December 1941
One suggestion before summer. Get your fortifications around Moscow up to where you want them, then just before summer go to the production screen and turn down fort production level by units to 25 or 50%. It will cost 100-150 admin points but will save a lot of supplies that will go into forts you won't have as much use for. During the summer if forts by units are left at 100%, in some weeks it can consume more supplies than your entire armaments industry.