My badly damaged S-32 is slowly losing its battle to stay afloat and is at risk of sinking about 250 NM SW of Dutch Harbor.
Can I send out a Tugboat or similar to help her out?
Can I send a PBY to pick up the crew?
RL will disrupt for a couple of days unfortunately. . .
1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
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Energisteron
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Deathifier
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Looks like good progress.
Regarding unloading the APA's and AKA's are very useful and important ships.
Section 6.3.3.3.2 of the manual explains why, however the basics are:
APA unloads 3000 points per day.
xAP unloads 250 points per day.
So the APA will typically unload itself in a day or two and will generally unload 10 times faster than the merchant ship.
Regarding your 2000 feet bombing run - not a great idea as you saw.
That low down any AA gun, even machineguns, will fire at the planes.
Generally speaking machineguns can reach up to around 3k feet, medium AA to around 9k feet, and heavy AA can (for some guns) reach up to over 30k feet.
Choosing a good bombing height can be tricky, presenting the following problem:
- You want to go lower for better accuracy, thus more damage in a shorter timeframe.
- Yet if you go lower you get in range of more and more AA guns, taking more damage in return and losing planes and pilots.
The problem is magnified in this scenario since you simply don't have much to work with - you just don't have enough aircraft to seriously damage a unit.
However air support can do wonders if coordinated with your ground units as air attacks cause disruption (reducing their adjusted AV) and help use up supplies, even if the air attack itself doesn't appear to do much direct damage.
Going forward the indications of their lack of supply, your interdiction of their supply route, and the possibility that your last attack seriously reduced their combat capability means you are doing well on Kiska.
Do keep an eye on your troops fatigue and disruption levels - disruption in particular has a very negative effect on the adjusted assault value.
No, and no - nothing you can do at sea beyond avoiding moving at full speed.
About all you could do is disband it at a nearer location (any friendly dot base will do) and hope the crew can fix non-major flotation damage.
If you have an AS and/or AR you can disband those in the same base to help.
Maybe try getting it to Adak instead - a port helps, a larger port helps more.
- Deathifier
Regarding unloading the APA's and AKA's are very useful and important ships.
Section 6.3.3.3.2 of the manual explains why, however the basics are:
APA unloads 3000 points per day.
xAP unloads 250 points per day.
So the APA will typically unload itself in a day or two and will generally unload 10 times faster than the merchant ship.
Regarding your 2000 feet bombing run - not a great idea as you saw.
That low down any AA gun, even machineguns, will fire at the planes.
Generally speaking machineguns can reach up to around 3k feet, medium AA to around 9k feet, and heavy AA can (for some guns) reach up to over 30k feet.
Choosing a good bombing height can be tricky, presenting the following problem:
- You want to go lower for better accuracy, thus more damage in a shorter timeframe.
- Yet if you go lower you get in range of more and more AA guns, taking more damage in return and losing planes and pilots.
The problem is magnified in this scenario since you simply don't have much to work with - you just don't have enough aircraft to seriously damage a unit.
However air support can do wonders if coordinated with your ground units as air attacks cause disruption (reducing their adjusted AV) and help use up supplies, even if the air attack itself doesn't appear to do much direct damage.
Going forward the indications of their lack of supply, your interdiction of their supply route, and the possibility that your last attack seriously reduced their combat capability means you are doing well on Kiska.
Do keep an eye on your troops fatigue and disruption levels - disruption in particular has a very negative effect on the adjusted assault value.
ORIGINAL: Energisteron
My badly damaged S-32 is slowly losing its battle to stay afloat and is at risk of sinking about 250 NM SW of Dutch Harbor.
Can I send out a Tugboat or similar to help her out?
Can I send a PBY to pick up the crew?
No, and no - nothing you can do at sea beyond avoiding moving at full speed.
About all you could do is disband it at a nearer location (any friendly dot base will do) and hope the crew can fix non-major flotation damage.
If you have an AS and/or AR you can disband those in the same base to help.
Maybe try getting it to Adak instead - a port helps, a larger port helps more.
- Deathifier
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Cap Mandrake
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Don't tell anyone but the sub crew is not really a sub crew. [;)] The worst that could happen is it sinks and you lose a couple of points. The S boats are due for the scrapyard anyway. Just reduce to cruise speed and get to the closest port, even if it is frozen rock with a gaggle of Inuit and a missionary or two, then disband the boat.
The crew can live on walrus blubber seal jerky until help arrives.
On the "Nutrition Screen" ("Ctrl N") select "Indigenous/Reptiles/Insects/Tree Bark"
The crew can live on walrus blubber seal jerky until help arrives.
On the "Nutrition Screen" ("Ctrl N") select "Indigenous/Reptiles/Insects/Tree Bark"
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Good point, Cap'n Mandrake.
The intricate details of this game never cease to amaze me! [;)] [:)]
The intricate details of this game never cease to amaze me! [;)] [:)]
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Thanks again, Deathifier, for your insight and tips. Back home later and I will dive back into this scenario as soon as I've a full stomach!
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Day 35 - May 20 (D+13)
Naval Situation (see attached)
Naval Situation (see attached)
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Day 35 - May 20 (D+13)
Outcome : Quite a good day really.
At sea the 3xDD TF intercepts the enemy supply convoy as it leaves Attu Island causing significant damage to the freighters. SS S-32 remains afloat.
All air operations are cancelled due to severe weather.
On land, another deliberate attack hurts them far more than us, but our troops are getting weary.
Outcome : Quite a good day really.
At sea the 3xDD TF intercepts the enemy supply convoy as it leaves Attu Island causing significant damage to the freighters. SS S-32 remains afloat.
All air operations are cancelled due to severe weather.
On land, another deliberate attack hurts them far more than us, but our troops are getting weary.
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Day 36 - May 21 (D+14)
The 3xDD near Attu leave their patrol zone behind and go west and then loop back in search of the damaged enemy convoy. However, there's no sign of it.
All TF returning to Dutch Harbor for replenishment and repair arrive safely, including both damaged subs.
Bad weather prevents any significant air activity.
Our beachhead bombards the enemy defensive perimeter which remains on the defensive.
The 3xDD near Attu leave their patrol zone behind and go west and then loop back in search of the damaged enemy convoy. However, there's no sign of it.
All TF returning to Dutch Harbor for replenishment and repair arrive safely, including both damaged subs.
Bad weather prevents any significant air activity.
Our beachhead bombards the enemy defensive perimeter which remains on the defensive.
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Day 37 - May 22 (D+15)
A fairly routine day. No surprises.
The weather improves, permitting 2 Gps of Liberators to bomb Kiska. Yet another SSX midget sub is destroyed (that must be the last one!) in the attack on the port. Ground forces are hit too although effectiveness is unknown. We have no losses flying at 12k ft.
The 1xCA 2xCL surface combat patrol completes its sweep without incident and returns to Dutch Harbor. Meanwhile another Bombardment TF, 2xBB 1xCL 2xDD, leaves Dutch Harbor bound for Kiska. CVE Nassau returns for replenishment.
The final remnants of the units already on Kiska are loaded up and set out for the Kiska beachhead. Again we bombard only. The enemy defenders do nothing of note.
A fairly routine day. No surprises.
The weather improves, permitting 2 Gps of Liberators to bomb Kiska. Yet another SSX midget sub is destroyed (that must be the last one!) in the attack on the port. Ground forces are hit too although effectiveness is unknown. We have no losses flying at 12k ft.
The 1xCA 2xCL surface combat patrol completes its sweep without incident and returns to Dutch Harbor. Meanwhile another Bombardment TF, 2xBB 1xCL 2xDD, leaves Dutch Harbor bound for Kiska. CVE Nassau returns for replenishment.
The final remnants of the units already on Kiska are loaded up and set out for the Kiska beachhead. Again we bombard only. The enemy defenders do nothing of note.
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Day 38 - May 23 (D+16)
Not so routine! It seems a Japanese CV is on the loose, probably just outside our PBY search range.
The 3xDD TF near Attu experiences several air attacks seemingly emanating from westward and DD Hull is torpedoed and sunk. We will need to withdraw our surface ships from the vicinity but all subs will be moved to Attu.
Liberators continue to plaster Kiska. Two are damaged by flak.
The ground forces will make another attack tomorrow but limit themselves to a mere bombardment today.
Not so routine! It seems a Japanese CV is on the loose, probably just outside our PBY search range.
The 3xDD TF near Attu experiences several air attacks seemingly emanating from westward and DD Hull is torpedoed and sunk. We will need to withdraw our surface ships from the vicinity but all subs will be moved to Attu.
Liberators continue to plaster Kiska. Two are damaged by flak.
The ground forces will make another attack tomorrow but limit themselves to a mere bombardment today.
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GetAssista
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
One DD is an acceptable price for the information that CV is in the area. It could've caught your heavy ships instead, or worse your amphib force. How many planes were there in one phase of attack and what kind of planes? Quantities/types can tell you a lot about the composition of enemy CV force.
For your subs, you have a choice of either using them as an observation force, spreading them out and paying attention to their detection levels and planes they spot to deduce the location of enemy CVs. Then move in while CVs are away replenishing. Or try to actively hunt with subs + maintain Kiska blocade. Can't do both at the same time.
Stepping up naval search, preferrably from Adak, goes without saying
For your subs, you have a choice of either using them as an observation force, spreading them out and paying attention to their detection levels and planes they spot to deduce the location of enemy CVs. Then move in while CVs are away replenishing. Or try to actively hunt with subs + maintain Kiska blocade. Can't do both at the same time.
Stepping up naval search, preferrably from Adak, goes without saying
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Hi Get Assista
Agreed. Those seem to be my options.
I intended posting further data in my last post so that will be amended shortly.
Graphic added to earlier post for May 23 AAR.
Agreed. Those seem to be my options.
I intended posting further data in my last post so that will be amended shortly.
Graphic added to earlier post for May 23 AAR.
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Day 39 - May 24 (D+17)
Poor weather perhaps prevents the possible enemy CV TF from intervening during the day. We see nothing of it at all. The 2x larger subs are dispatched to intercept if possible. All subs on patrol are vectored west of Attu leaving only surface ships to lay siege to Kiska.
The 3rd Wave amphibious TF arrives at Kiska and begins discharging over the beach. The enemy respond with significant artillery fire causing casualties but no ships are hit. The beachhead forces postpone their offensive due to the poor weather. Both sides bombard with little effect.
The latest bombardment TF approaches Kiska and is expected to attack overnight.
Liberators from Dutch Harbor continue strikes on Kiska, hitting yet another SSX midget sub and destroying it outright.
Poor weather perhaps prevents the possible enemy CV TF from intervening during the day. We see nothing of it at all. The 2x larger subs are dispatched to intercept if possible. All subs on patrol are vectored west of Attu leaving only surface ships to lay siege to Kiska.
The 3rd Wave amphibious TF arrives at Kiska and begins discharging over the beach. The enemy respond with significant artillery fire causing casualties but no ships are hit. The beachhead forces postpone their offensive due to the poor weather. Both sides bombard with little effect.
The latest bombardment TF approaches Kiska and is expected to attack overnight.
Liberators from Dutch Harbor continue strikes on Kiska, hitting yet another SSX midget sub and destroying it outright.
RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
From what you posted the DD Hull was sunk by a torpedo carrying Betty escorted by Zeros. What makes you think there are enemy carriers about?
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Cap Mandrake
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Agreed, that is a Betty attack. There is an actual photograph. That is just the price of doing business. Bettys will only rarely hit DD's operating on their own unless they are elite flying-circus magicians.
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Hi Bif1961 and Cap Mandrake
The graphic displaying the air attack indicated a route from about 280 degrees relative to the 3xDD TF which was at Attu Island (in that hex). the red line faded out after about 3 hexes in that direction.
Does that mean anything at all?
The graphic displaying the air attack indicated a route from about 280 degrees relative to the 3xDD TF which was at Attu Island (in that hex). the red line faded out after about 3 hexes in that direction.
Does that mean anything at all?
RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
The back-bearing from 280 degrees at Attu takes you to the lower Kuriles. Bettys can carry torpedoes a considerable distance - I don't have the hex range at hand right now.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Hi BBfanboy
A type-1 Betty has a normal radius of 17 hexes but can extend to 21 hexes at a pinch! Zeros have a radius of 5 hexes extended with drop-tanks to 8 hexes.
So, the Bettys could have come all the way from Paramushiro-jima. The escorting Zeros could have joined them from Attu Island. That makes sense. So, I'll reduce my estimated probability of there being a Japanese CV on the loose.
Perhaps the raid was in response to the quick passage of the CA CL TF and they hoped to have a crack at one of them?
A type-1 Betty has a normal radius of 17 hexes but can extend to 21 hexes at a pinch! Zeros have a radius of 5 hexes extended with drop-tanks to 8 hexes.
So, the Bettys could have come all the way from Paramushiro-jima. The escorting Zeros could have joined them from Attu Island. That makes sense. So, I'll reduce my estimated probability of there being a Japanese CV on the loose.
Perhaps the raid was in response to the quick passage of the CA CL TF and they hoped to have a crack at one of them?
RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
I checked your first page and it does not say if you are playing a human opponent or the AI. I am assuming AI.
The AI scripts commonly include reactions to detection of valuable ships, so if a carrier was spotted by a sub, the AI would try to send its own carriers, aircraft, subs and perhaps SCTFs to attack it. In this scenario, the bombardment BBs may have caused the AI to set a naval attack to try and catch them, but your DDs were the first thing spotted by search so that is what the Bettys attacked.
The AI will probably send other forces as it gets them, rather than waiting until it gets a big hammer to hit you with. You should be able to handle them with minimal losses.
The AI scripts commonly include reactions to detection of valuable ships, so if a carrier was spotted by a sub, the AI would try to send its own carriers, aircraft, subs and perhaps SCTFs to attack it. In this scenario, the bombardment BBs may have caused the AI to set a naval attack to try and catch them, but your DDs were the first thing spotted by search so that is what the Bettys attacked.
The AI will probably send other forces as it gets them, rather than waiting until it gets a big hammer to hit you with. You should be able to handle them with minimal losses.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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Energisteron
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RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians
Yes, it's an AI opponent.
This started as a 'I need help understanding what's going on' thread in general discussion, then I was politely advised to put it in AARs. As a novice at this game I am finding the AI a reasonable opponent. Certainly it seems not to have done anything idiotic!
This started as a 'I need help understanding what's going on' thread in general discussion, then I was politely advised to put it in AARs. As a novice at this game I am finding the AI a reasonable opponent. Certainly it seems not to have done anything idiotic!