MM (Axis) vs Nirosi (Allied) Nirosi welcome

[MagicMissile]

July 3 1942.

Lost screenshots of the last turn of June here is the situation at the end of the July 3 turn. We played one more turn but then digital Stalin sued for peace.

There is no coming back from this. If I cut the railroad at Kirov the only supply the Soviet units will have is the ports of Murmansk and Archangelsk and it would be over. Even if that did not happen in 43 I would have sent my mech units south killed the armies south of Stalingrad and grabbed the oil and the situation would be untenable. So that was a bit sudden but I will post some analysis in the next post.

July 3 east.png (2.54 MiB) Viewed 769 times

[MagicMissile]

Game end and conclusions

Thank you Nirosi for the game, well played. I feel this was a bit underserved with the very good defense of Russia in 1941 and your anti sub campaign. I am still not quite sure how things fell apart so quickly. I was a bit lucky with the weather having a cold turn end of April and no rain in May. Still the Soviets fell apart in 6 turns so it was very quick and I really did not expect that.

So my view of the game is something like this. Up to 1941 I think it works really well. Summer 1942 is crunch time as maybe it should be and you can argue was in the real war too. Well you saw what I do I form this panzer ball with as many mech units as possible. This is a problem many boardgames and a game like WitE 1 had. One rail line supply unlimited amount of units meaning that you can take, was it Clausewitz?, words of concentration of force and go all in. If the Soviet army is not large enough they can easily rip a large hole in the front and pour through and once they get these open spaces it is so easy to encircle or threaten to encircle large parts of the Soviet army and if you retreat you give up a whole lot of space and if you dont you will probably lose lots of units. Also it is not even that oil costly because once you get that hole you dont need to attack very much and the airforce dont need to fly much. I was down to about 200 oil or 20% at the end of the game.

The solution is not easy. I have survived with the Soviets it can be done. Firstly the new patch which gives Soviet mech units 7 op again in March 42 will probably be helpful. It gives a chance to maybe cover a hole in the front and maybe even do a counterattack here and there. The second thing is you need a large army. I think you need like a triple line of units around the panzerball to try and soak up as much effiency as possible, one thing the Germans dont have, at least I dont, is a lot of infantry in support so if you have lots of units you can soak the panzer effiency pretty well. But to have that many surplus units means you need a large army. I have always said you need at least a 2500 army at the start of the summer. I am thinking even that might be a bit low with 2700+ better, well more is always better . But the Soviet manpower, especially if you lose Moscow which I think happens fairly often, I feel is a bit too low to always get an army of that size and that is a problem.

In my game with Nirosi where I am allied my manpower was down to 54% in May 42 it is a little bit higher now becuse I dont give any replacements to the infantry meaning lots of units are really down in strength. That gave me the ability to get a army up to about 2800 strength. The Germans meanwhile sit at 90%+ in manpower. I relly feel something is a bit off with these numbers.

And for comparison Nirosi as the Axis did not really form this panzer ball and he is doing fine inflicting lots of losses and I think he might well be on the path to win. But when I did not see any panzerball I decided to stand and fight and as you will see in the AAR except for taking Moscow I have not lost much territory , but my army size is down 500 points and manpower situation is problematic.

Anyway just some thoughts. Thanks again for the game Nirosi if you or anyone else want to play just let me know

/MM

[Nirosi]

Hi all,

I was indeed surprised by how fast it crumbled in 1942. I probably did not have the right size army to force a slower advance of the Panzers an was too confident after 1941. Even a 300 extra points (8 armies or so) would have made a difference. I will have to ponder that.

True, weather did not help by been very nice very fast, but in the end it matters little. The same thing would have happened with the same end result. It would simply have happened in August instead of July.

But there also another factor that has nothing to do with the game: Magic Missile is a very good player. I had fun playing with him (thanks of the game by the way) and now I will try to put some order in what I learned and try to survive until the end with the Axis in the other game.

[ncc1701e]

Did you use half Soviet armies to maximize ZOCs on your frontline?

[Nirosi]

In some places yes, but admittedly not enough and too little/too late for his Stalingrad offensive.

[ncc1701e]

So my view of the game is something like this. Up to 1941 I think it works really well. Summer 1942 is crunch time as maybe it should be and you can argue was in the real war too. Well you saw what I do I form this panzer ball with as many mech units as possible. This is a problem many boardgames and a game like WitE 1 had. One rail line supply unlimited amount of units meaning that you can take, was it Clausewitz?, words of concentration of force and go all in.

The solution is not easy. I have survived with the Soviets it can be done. Firstly the new patch which gives Soviet mech units 7 op again in March 42 will probably be helpful. It gives a chance to maybe cover a hole in the front and maybe even do a counterattack here and there. The second thing is you need a large army. I think you need like a triple line of units around the panzerball to try and soak up as much effiency as possible, one thing the Germans dont have, at least I dont, is a lot of infantry in support so if you have lots of units you can soak the panzer effiency pretty well. But to have that many surplus units means you need a large army. I have always said you need at least a 2500 army at the start of the summer. I am thinking even that might be a bit low with 2700+ better, well more is always better . But the Soviet manpower, especially if you lose Moscow which I think happens fairly often, I feel is a bit too low to always get an army of that size and that is a problem.

I like your conclusions. Moscow is lost too easily because of its position on the map, much too close than in reality. And that is a problem that alas will not be solved I fear. The Red Army needs either more units if their stats are untouched. But, maybe changing their stats so that the Soviet infantry armies have the same defense level than any other armies on the map is another alternative.

On a side note, WITE2 is doing a good job simulating the amount of supplies a rail line can handle. By the way, I will buy Steel Inferno DLC shortly.

[MagicMissile]

So my view of the game is something like this. Up to 1941 I think it works really well. Summer 1942 is crunch time as maybe it should be and you can argue was in the real war too. Well you saw what I do I form this panzer ball with as many mech units as possible. This is a problem many boardgames and a game like WitE 1 had. One rail line supply unlimited amount of units meaning that you can take, was it Clausewitz?, words of concentration of force and go all in.

The solution is not easy. I have survived with the Soviets it can be done. Firstly the new patch which gives Soviet mech units 7 op again in March 42 will probably be helpful. It gives a chance to maybe cover a hole in the front and maybe even do a counterattack here and there. The second thing is you need a large army. I think you need like a triple line of units around the panzerball to try and soak up as much effiency as possible, one thing the Germans dont have, at least I dont, is a lot of infantry in support so if you have lots of units you can soak the panzer effiency pretty well. But to have that many surplus units means you need a large army. I have always said you need at least a 2500 army at the start of the summer. I am thinking even that might be a bit low with 2700+ better, well more is always better . But the Soviet manpower, especially if you lose Moscow which I think happens fairly often, I feel is a bit too low to always get an army of that size and that is a problem.

I like your conclusions. Moscow is lost too easily because of its position on the map, much too close than in reality. And that is a problem that alas will not be solved I fear. The Red Army needs either more units if their stats are untouched. But, maybe changing their stats so that the Soviet infantry armies have the same defense level than any other armies on the map is another alternative.

On a side note, WITE2 is doing a good job simulating the amount of supplies a rail line can handle. By the way, I will buy Steel Inferno DLC shortly.

I havent played with the new patch yet so maybe that will make some difference. If not yes improved units or more could be a solution. I also feel German MP is part of the problem.

I wonder if one could make rail lines work like ports that each line can only support x number of units or something but probably difficult to program. Or maybe increase the penalty the further away from closest rail you are. Also maybe increase cost of movement at the breakthrough point. Some ideas

So you havent given up on WitE2 yet? I was thinking that maybe the scenarios could be fun to play instead of going at the full campaign. Less time and less micro. If you want to give it a try let me know .

/MM

[ncc1701e]

So you havent given up on WitE2 yet? I was thinking that maybe the scenarios could be fun to play instead of going at the full campaign. Less time and less micro. If you want to give it a try let me know .

No I didn't. An accurate map with right places and river lines, realistic Soviets, maybe a little strong. I am looking at it more than ever. I will practice AI first but I may ping you later.

[MagicMissile]

So you havent given up on WitE2 yet? I was thinking that maybe the scenarios could be fun to play instead of going at the full campaign. Less time and less micro. If you want to give it a try let me know .

No I didn't. An accurate map with right places and river lines, realistic Soviets, maybe a little strong. I am looking at it more than ever. I will practice AI first but I may ping you later.

Ok sounds good maybe later .