CD fee?!?!

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ravinhood
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by ravinhood »

Gee what VCR PLAYERS you talking of? When VCR came out they were both recorders and players, the supreme court 5-4 ruled it was legal to sell vcrs due to the legal use of it.

There were no Players only for Vcrs's.

Cdroms? When cdroms came out there were Burners too, just that the burners were extremly expensive, tell me how a cdrom could be created without a burner LOL!

The wording I should have used were VHS players (and these came out before recorders were introduced into the market), I had one, it was built into a TV w/15" screen, and all it did was play vhs tapes it had no record features on it at all. Made by Phillips/Magnavox.

Also of course there were burners, but, you seem to forget cd-rom burners did not come in PC's for quite awhile after cd-roms started coming in them and the initial price for a cd-rom burner was around $3600, not likely "many" home owned pc's had one of those at the initial release of cd-roms.

This is where I start to partially blame the industry itself for the high level of piracy there is today (and most likely why this new bill is being presented). By decreasing the price of cd-rom burners to practically nothing and then reducing the cost to connect to the internet, there's more than just piracy, major crimes are going on within the internet now. It seems they over-shot their abilities to police the net before they opened it up to the masses of the world. I remember when an online connection cost you $3 an hour or more. You didn't have many "kiddies" running around the net when it was that expensive. Not to mention 1200 baud connections that it would take a lifetime to download any major programs of today.

I also think you are over interpreting the law and over-reacting (basically because of this statement: "While all panelists expressed interest in working with the committee to halt piracy, four of the five panelists rejected the bill in its current form.") , you appear to be a liberal and that would explain why you don't like the law. I highly doubt these professional lawmakers would impose any such law that would make it so simple to sue anyone over anything as simple as you seem to believe it to be. I'm sure it will be tossed around and reworked so as not to make it as simple as you think it will be and even so, it still doesn't mean it will pass.

As I said before though, I rather hope it passes when it is written in fair form, it won't bother me at all. Laws have been changing for years and years now, nothing new here except attempting to make laws that would thwart and punish violators of copyright laws etc. etc. and also to hold technology responsible for these violations as well. Perhaps it might just slow technology down somewhat and we won't have to upgrade our systems every 2 years just to keep up. I'm all for that also. ;)

And to show the increase in piracy, there was a thread at the wargamer.com that someone posted that the download count for DOOM III was already at 200,000. That's getting pretty serious when you have 200,000 individuals downloading a copyrighted game for free, no pay, just play. So there definitely needs to be some new laws imposed and I'm all for that if it eventually helps reduce the cost of software and eventually allows for the return and refund of faulty software or just don't like it at all.
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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Mr.Frag
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by Mr.Frag »

And to show the increase in piracy, there was a thread at the wargamer.com that someone posted that the download count for DOOM III was already at 200,000. That's getting pretty serious when you have 200,000 individuals downloading a copyrighted game for free, no pay, just play. So there definitely needs to be some new laws imposed and I'm all for that if it eventually helps reduce the cost of software and eventually allows for the return and refund of faulty software or just don't like it at all.

Two sides to this coin.

As long as people can do something, they will do it. As long as you attempt to prevent people from doing something, others will devote their talents to ways around it.

The basic problem is that (a) software costs too much in general, (b) most software is nowhere near worth what is charged for it due to it being rushed to market in an unready state and (c) people resent being ripped off.

The industry has lost all trust of the public over the years. I doubt there is a single person here who has not had the experience of getting home with their new purchase, loading it up, and finding it doesn't work. They have no ability to do anything at that point in time. They have just been screwed out of their hard earned money.

Until the industry starts to police themselves and lay makers actually put in some protection for the consumer, they industry is not in a position to cry foul. They through greed have caused the situation to exist in the first place.

I hate piracy big time. I also hate being ripped off. I have hundreds of CD's sitting here of which perhaps 40 were worth the money spent. The rest were me getting ripped off. If you look at an average of $50, and do the math ... lets say 200 CD's x $50 = $10,000 of which 40 were worth it, thats $8,000 extra I paid over the years or $200 a game.

As long as I have no legal avenue to go after the rip off artists who flood the market with crap, it becomes really tough to justify going after those who rip off the rip off artists. Obviously real people get hurt as a result of the fallout, but I honestly think the only way to fix this is to fix both sides.

The computer business is probably the only industry left in the world where the consumer has no rights at all. They need to fix that then they will get some public support behind them to put an end to piracy.

That's one of the reasons Matrix is such a great company, they actually *support* their customers!
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Hexed Gamer
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by Hexed Gamer »

Ok we need to be smart, (which is not a requirement if you are makng laws if you ask me).

When I download something, it's not because I am being cheap, it's because it is easy and convenient. Maybe I am unique in that respect.

If I like a song, I like the song. I might not like the whole cd though. Make the internet work FOR us not against us. Make it EASIER to get the song. Fractionally, not in large assortments.

CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN!

Well I suppose that won't sit well with the middlemen. Tough.

Put the media back in the hands of the people that made it.

Make devices to make media the norm. Make it so it is simple to make the media, then distribute it as we see fit.

Yes I know, I am talking a major shift in how things are done. I am advocating total removal of the entire reording industry in favour of every artist being able to produce.

Sound outrageous? Well frankly, everything in my life today, would have been an outrageous notion 60 years ago. So why let an outrageous notion slow me down.

Matrix Games is going the right route with digital download. It is a bumpy start, and they are not doing it the best way at every corner, but it's a learning process. I can allow for that.

Matrix Games makes a game, and the sells the game, and they transport the game, and no one intercepts any of the money.
Any downside to that?

True Matrix Games also is the middleman in some cases. So the guys making the games that Matrix Games sometimes only publishes, could easily be doing the same thing.
That's the point of course, everyone could be a Matrix Games if they wanted to be if the situation allowed for it.

I don't live in fear of anyone making it a crime to own cd/dvd burnning hardware, or software to employ the same.
I also don't live in fear of a lot of other crackpot notions.

I think though, the industry might live in fear of some of these politicians bankrupting them when society refuses to buy anything made under those conditions.
My current dvd burner drive is how I run cd/dvds. Telling me I can't use it, is identical to telling me to stop buying dvds.

Guess what happens when enough people just stop buying dvds? Any dvds. Yep, crashing halt to the industry.
Who loses? The industry.

Me, I can always go to a theatre to watch the movie. I can always go to a concert to here the music. I can always play a board game. I can always buy a book at the store.

If digital media was ripped out of my life tomorrow, my life WILL go on. But it is sure going to cost a lot of jobs.
Those jobs cost votes. Those votes can put people in power or take them out.
I am not worried about the insane decisions having much power.
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David Heath
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by David Heath »

Hi Guys

This will have to be a short email today. Please understand that we hear your post the good and the bad and I want to say thank you. I also want you to know that MAJOR changes to provide better service and better wording on our site and store are in the works. Expect to see some of the changes this month.



David
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ravinhood
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by ravinhood »

YAY, see it does change things by "speacking out" "moaning and groaning"! hehe

Thanks David. ;)
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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Cmdrcain
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by Cmdrcain »

Grumppp after writting out a post I get an error...

wish we didn't lose what we attempted to post if an error in posting cropped up.. too tired to type the post out all over grumpp
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ravinhood
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by ravinhood »

LOL CmdrCain, that happened to me a couple of times and after that I started "copying" my post before I clicked on the "ok" button, that way when I got the error I had my post still saved to retry.
WE/I WANT 1:1 or something even 1:2 death animations in the KOIOS PANZER COMMAND SERIES don't forget Erik! ;) and Floating Paratroopers We grew up with Minor, Marginal and Decisive victories why rock the boat with Marginal, Decisive and Legendary?


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Hexed Gamer
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by Hexed Gamer »

Misery loves company Cmdrcain, I lost a post the same way :)

I got moody and went and watched tv in my case.
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Fred98
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by Fred98 »

I write and spell check in a word processing document - and then post :)
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Hexed Gamer
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RE: CD fee?!?!

Post by Hexed Gamer »

Which makes good sense joe, but I prefer thinking it is just fate protecting my opinionated ass when a post goes astray heheh.
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