Empires in Harm

Galahad · Post by **Galahad** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 3:35 am

Most everyone here has probably heard of Empires in Arms, which IMHO, is one of the top three wargames ever designed. (World in Flames and Longest Day being my other two choices).

I'm hoping that the design team is familier with EiA. If not ... hint hint.

With the demise of Avalon Hill, updates for its games ceased. Empires in Harm is an unofficial update to EiA. The official site is down for now, but there is an active group on Yahoo.

I'll be posting my suggestings for the new game.

Galahad

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 6:23 am

Hi Yes

I talked with Mike when he was in Japan. I know Empires in Harm very well. You can expect a lot more from us since there is a lot more we can do with the computer. I have not been able to track down Mike since then and the site is gone now. Do you know if its coming back or is it gone forever.

Also please extend a hand from Matrix to any of the EIA players we love to get their input into the game.

[ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: David Heath ]

[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: David Heath ]</p>

Galahad · Post by **Galahad** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 8:04 pm

Michael T. is still around and his website is coming back. Thats all I can say about that for now. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Im going ot let him know whats going on here, hopefully you should hear from him.

Galahad

John Hutton · Post by **John Hutton** » Sat Oct 13, 2001 4:55 am

Mike T's version of EIA is floating about in various electronic forms. The last one I viewed had some important innovations, and should certainly be of value to the Matrix design team.

Congratulations, as everyone else is saying, for taking on this project. A part of my mind has been thinking about just this kind of a game - an Empires in Arms for the computer, but much much more - for about five years now.

Briefly some thoughts:
1) a good economic system is a must (EIA was board-game simple in that case) for that vital strategic interface between diplomacy, war, and economy;

2) why Europe only? There was an entire world out there that was driving, historically at least, the conflict in Europe. England was Napoleon's enemy not just because he was short and spoke with a terrible accent! A good text on the subject is "Dreams of Empire", although I forget the author's name.

3) no board game or existing Napoleonic game has ever done strategic level naval combat any justice whaaaaatsoever! Could this one do it? Naval combat was always about supply.

4) semi-realtime does work, as Europa Universalis has proven. However, it is not as friendly for turn-based email play, which is what any long campaign with multiple human players needs.

5)how about a technology tree? There were key strategic, administrative, economic, technological and social changes through the period 1796 (when the Grand Campaign should start) to 1815, which could be brought into play. Nations could commit different resorces to different areas - the military reforms of Austria for instance in 1806-8 were vital in defeating Napoleon on the battlefield.

Each of these issues could generate an uncomfortably large body of text on my part, so I won't bother.

However, I would encourage the designers to engage with the wider gaming community on these issues. We have waited too long for a good Napoleonic game to have it being second best. There is really potential here to create a classic.

Finally, the period itself is so replete with exciting history as to require innovation; thinking outside the gaming box. There is also sufficient historical data (and a virtual mountain of literature) to ensure that it is honest to its time: an education tool as much as a game.

Cheers,

John from Down Under.

ABPDenmark · Post by **ABPDenmark** » Tue Oct 23, 2001 10:12 pm

I say the first attempt by Matrix to realise a game like this. I am very glad to see that you are back in development. I think EiA and EiH are very good bases from which to make the basic consept of a computerized strategic game. I think though that a computer version could offer much more. I will post my thoughts on gameplay in another topic. I strongly believe that many games that have claimed to be strategic games in the past have really been micro-economical-tactical-games. I hope this "virus" will not infect Napoleonic Wars.

msvknight · Post by **msvknight** » Fri Oct 26, 2001 4:00 pm

Dreams of Empire by Paul Fregosi

I loved it. It opened up a whole world of warfare that I didn't know about. I thought it made a fantastic counterpoint volume to what David Chandler covered in his definitive Campaigns of Napoleon.

Caranorn · Post by **Caranorn** » Tue Nov 20, 2001 1:49 am

I just thought I should mention that EiA was designed by Harry Rowland (of ADG and WiF) and that the rights probably reverted to him after AH's demise (Harry's deal with AH from the beginning was that rights would revert immediatelly if AH ceases to support and produce the game). At least that was the situation last I heard from ADG (any future edition of EiA will probably be ADG, including a computer version (WiF being betaed right now)).

Also remember that one should not copy other wargames, there are so many interesting concepts out there and many new ideas to integrate. And Matrix has no reason to copy anyhow as I am sure that this new game will be more then porting a board game to the computer.