Most dangerous titans?

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Mon Oct 15, 2001 4:24 pm

In deciding, who to tackle first, one fairly good choice is to go with the most dangerous one.

Now, the big question : What do you think constitutes to the title "the most dangerous titan", something so dangerous that it needs to be brought down immediately, even if you're just a few rounds from blasting down another one?

My ordering :

-Anything with (heavy) mesons. I've found out that I rarely use DCS, and even if I do, I usually have more pressing matters at the time. An early gyro hit means death..
-Anything with AC20's. A single head-hit with a little prior sandblasting has caused me more deaths than I'd like to.
-Supports. As far as your poor titan is concerned, they'll never run out of ammo.

Naturally, everything else being equal, thinner armor gets the axe first, CC titans go down before all-arounds (preferably before closing in on range), and from there, damage/armour ratio rates the rest. And when in doubt, the one with energy weapons is propably the less dangerous one.

Sometimes it's fun to design titans that have overly exaggerated fire power at the expense of armour plating. They can sacrifice most of the electronics as well, but surprisingly, meeting one usually means casualties. Any explanations?

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Mon Oct 15, 2001 6:16 pm

I usually go after anything with missiles (other than SRMs) first if I can hit it, followed by titans with heavy weapons like AC20s and TBs.
When I'm designing titans, I try hard not to sacrifice armor, even at the expense of firepower. In all my online battles, I've never won one without getting hit, so I don't want my titan to crap out the first time it takes a hit. Of course, that's all personal preference. I prefer the heavier titans, while many people like the lighter ones.

PrinceCorrin · Post by **PrinceCorrin** » Mon Oct 15, 2001 6:31 pm

I like to hit the designs I know to be trouble first. Sometimes the least likely are the most dangerous. Pest1, Fist, Gutter, Hole Puncher, Dragula, Mugger, and then support titans. I don't worry much about HMGs, because I put DCS in almost all my designs.

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Mon Oct 15, 2001 8:05 pm

HUm, I always start by taking out my own design: " I know how to make them then I know how to break them" <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

HtH titans can be scarry, but IMHO the worst ennemy is that 5 NM7 sitting on the other side of map and blasting you while linked to his buddy. For my short experience Heat is your worst ennemy.

I also have problem with armor, but I got a rule: always leave 1 slot open for armor ( preferably 2 in sensible parts ).

For now my worstr opponent was my own FireRainer and my own Knight.
- FireRainer: Light 2 NM14, 3 NM7 and nice computer ( can you say critical heat ? ).
- Knight: Light, 2 chainsaw, ECM, Shield, DCS, more than 35 points of armor everywhere ( except the head of course ).

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Mon Oct 15, 2001 8:24 pm

I'd have to agree with PC here. It's some of the most unsuspecting designs which turn out to be the nastiest. Pest 1 for sure is a pain. Wolfpack most others which decent firepower built around "swarm" tactics are very dangerous as well. NMs will strip your armor faster than you realize as while you're waiting to cool down, they're nibbling away at your feet like gnomes. From the standard designs (v1.4b extended database), I'd say the most dangerous, are:

Recon: Porcupine (the new Pest doesn't handle heat as well, and lost its original purpose, actually PC, could you post the specs on your Pest 1? I'd like to add it to my databse)
Light: Imp (really don't want this thing close, it'll ruin your day)
Medium: Longbow (missiles, and more missiles, oh and did I mention NMs?)
Heavy: Bonecrusher (not much in electronics, but thickly armored and really hurts if it gets in range)
Assault: Avatar (4 NM14s, need I say more?)

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Mon Oct 15, 2001 11:41 pm

Called Shots and Missiles make a great combo against your enemies. Some improvements to the AI make certain weapons more deadly than they appear. The ac4 has long range and if called to hit the head can ruin your day. Missiles tend to hit the head more often in general than other weapons so any titan using a combo of long range direct damage like the ac4, guass cannon, plasma gun, combined with a few LRM's or GM's should be taken out before those with Tesla or ac20. If you notice that the enemy with either the tesla or ac20 is rapidly approaching (jump 6) then target them because once they get in range the game will be over quickly.

The Happy Moron · Post by **The Happy Moron** » Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:24 am

I think the old saying 'it's not how big it is, it's how you use it' would apply.

The Wolfpack, and my own design based upon it, are small and weak when used singly, but three Wolfpacks can really ruin your day.

A bunch of support Titans aren't going to do much if they try and fight HtH, but strategically placed around the map they can pick the enemy to pieces.

The best bet is to have a ballanced team of Support, Attack, and CC. All of my best teams (vs AI) have a ballance of long-medium-short range weapons.

That's my two cents, anyway.

PrinceCorrin · Post by **PrinceCorrin** » Tue Oct 16, 2001 6:12 am

Titan Name <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> est 1 (Recon Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Cyber C-R1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 26.3t (40t maximum) Height : 6 [meter]
Bmt : 16 (75 kph) Reduce Heat: -1.8C/sec.
No Jump-Ports Cost : 64298 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Morola M1 [Engine 1] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Mechlarren [Heat 2]
LifeSup.:Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys S [Scan 1] [RT ]
Computer:Triton TC [Comp. 4] [CT ]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] MEDIUM LASER
[LA ] MEDIUM LASER

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (09) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[RT ] (11) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[CT ] (15) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[CBT ] (09) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[LT ] (11) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[RA ] (13) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[LA ] (13) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[LowT] (11) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[RL ] (13) Vicenium 010 [018mm]
[LL ] (13) Vicenium 010 [018mm]

Armorindex: 8.29 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 118 [APts]
External: 100 [APts] Max:[050mm]
Total Armor: 218 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Recon Titan
Weapons : Energy
Warfare : Scanner
Skills : Medical

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:28 am

10 armor??? I realize this is a recon but with this armor I'd switch the medium lasers with something very long distance. Very extremely long distance. Gm 3 perhaps?

Here is one of the new Light designs:

Titan Name: <Sturmgeshutz VI> (Light Allround Titan)
Chassis: Morola L4
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 10 [meter]
Bmt : 19 (63 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.1C/sec.
Jmt : 15 (80 kph) for 75 secs Cost : 153341 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :CyberSys [Engine 3] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Teflin [Heat 3]
Flare :FL Small [Flare1] [RT ]
LifeSup.:Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys [Scanner3] [RT ]
Computer:Triton TC [Comp. 4] [LT ]
JumpPort:Coltos [Jump 3]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] L.R.M. 5 RACK (020) [1]
[RT ] MEDIUM LASER
[LT ] MEDIUM LASER
[LA ] S.R.M. 8 RACK (032) [2]

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Vicenium 016 [027mm]
[RT ] (19) Vicenium 042 [070mm]
[CT ] (19) Vicenium 033 [056mm]
[RA ] (19) Vicenium 027 [045mm]
[LA ] (19) Vicenium 027 [045mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium 042 [070mm]
[LL ] (17) Vicenium 028 [047mm]

Armorindex: 7.01 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 166 [APts]
External: 325 [APts] Max:[071mm]
Total Armor: 491 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Light Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : N.G.M Energy
Warfare : Defensives Scanner
Skills : Medical Recon Ind.Fire

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:36 am

PC's Pest 1 was designed to fill a weight gap between titans. =)

There are a few other things as well. You'll need to delete the brackets from around the titan name as this forum tries to read HTML. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> Also how can that be a new titan? It's an old printout with missing LT armor and LRM5s. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Lyhrrus ]</p>

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Wed Oct 17, 2001 5:24 pm

Well, if recon Wolfpacks in a swarm formation are a killer, how about these two alternatives, then?

Alternative One - "Heat is thy worst enemy"

Fire Brigade : Assault Close Combat
Weapons : 4 NM14's w/lots of ammo plus 2 LL's
Electronics : All but Flares.

With about five of these working as a team, ANY titan blows up within two or three recycles of the NM's. If you manage to blow up one amidst a larger group, the others will explode in a chain reaction shortly after. I created a tournament team to test these out, and my group of 8 of these single-handedly destroyed the combined forces of AI team2 & 4, while my 'other' 8-assault team sat idle watching the fireworks. Can you say overpowered? <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Alternative Two - "Divide and Conquer"

Agony : Assault Close Combat
Weapons : 2 BRG's, 2 AC12's, 2 HMG's, misc lasers.
Electronics : Everything but ECM or Flares.

These really excel in forested areas, where vision is severely limited and your best friend, forest fires, come into play. Enemy titans are kept at bay using BRG's and nibbled to death one by one. They can't really mount an offense at you since they're busy TRYING to stand up..

I've also tried Chainsaw + Flamer Titans earlier on, but I've had waaaaaaaaaaaay too many titans explode at my face that I now consider it a suicide to get within two hexes of my enemy..

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Wed Oct 17, 2001 6:23 pm

Yep exploding titans is a great problem for the HtH titans, that is why I conceived the Knight, light titan 2 chainsaw, DCS, HR and LS level 3 to 4 , 45 ac ( no mm ) in every body part except head. This guy did survive to the ennemy exploding and the encurring heat, in fact I always plan to rush in the middle of the ennemy pack and make the lightest one go kaboom, even in better in forest. That's way yesterday I managed to blow up 4 ennemy titans ( with the unwilling sacrifice of 1 of my brother titan that help me get to them still <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> ).

BTW Why did I saw so many Assault , Heavy design ?? they are so easy to get, so many place so many thing you can put in it. The true challenge is to go for Light/reco, there there is hard to put things into to efficient way <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Wed Oct 17, 2001 9:30 pm

Originally posted by Lyhrrus:
PC's Pest 1 was designed to fill a weight gap between titans. =)

There are a few other things as well. You'll need to delete the brackets from around the titan name as this forum tries to read HTML. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> Also how can that be a new titan? It's an old printout with missing LT armor and LRM5s. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Lyhrrus ]

Because I'm probably not using the same factory module as you. I'm currently using some modules that are in the process of being completed so you will have to live with the differences at the moment. For a while the Tos structure was going to be reconfigured which would probably make all the old designs obsolete but that is no longer the case I believe. Your designs are safe for the moment.

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Wed Oct 17, 2001 9:56 pm

Tournement teams (which was what Larkin had with his Wolfpack team) have limited money and skills. There's no way you're going to be able to afford 8 assault titans with or without NMs.

There are a lot of assaults because they seem to be the "easiest" to design, in getting in all the weapons and electronics in you want. This doesn't mean that we don't design other titans. It's just that recons and lights tend not to work as well in the duel manner (which is what is usually played online due to bandwidth capabilities) but better in team play (sometimes tiny-small teams are played online, but there's no guarentee that you'll get the "right" mix supporting recons and lights that you'd want).

Bardinae · Post by **Bardinae** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 1:50 am

Ah the good old days!

When we were doing tournament team battles (which did takes 6 hours to finish sometimes) It always felt cool to try to design the nastiest team within the constraints of 1 million credits, 1000 pt. characters, 70 skill max, all pilots fight.

Kinda got like playing Magic:The Gathering, with us building our teams, playing them against each other, then tweaking/rebuilding after each game. I'd still love to do that now, but I haven't got the time for long games like that.

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:05 am

Just for the heck of it, I did try a bunch of five Wolfpacks against regular AI team. I brought one Assault sized titan from my other team to get some extra tonnage for the AI.

My pilots were quite high-skilled, having 90 in all skills - BUT the piloting of recon sized titans. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> I realized this when I broke move with most of the team running, having to pass skill rolls as low as 20%.

Anyway, only one of the opposing four titans ever got a chance to fire back at me. It was a Barracuda, a light with 2CS and 4MG. All the others, including one heavy, were destroyed before they realized what hit them.

Gotta admit, when five recons working as a team take down twice their tonnage with nary but a scratch to show for it, I guess I may say I'm impressed. This also means the end for my 'Assaults are be-all and end-all of TOS' statement. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:07 pm

Actually I wont consider thsi a fair trest for the simple fact that the AI can really be DUMB!!, last night he stack all his 8 titan in the same forest hex while trying to climb a 80m mountain and stay ther until I cross the entire map to get at him <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . ALso his tactic of Walking backward, Running ahead, crounch , stand up, running backward... repetedly gimme nuts , and easy pick up shoot.
The AI is much mor vulnerable in closequarter but put together a long range sniping team, mlake an armored bait running/dodging in fornt and you can pretty kill any AI.

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 6:15 pm

Okay, seems like I found it! This has got to be the most dangerous titan I've ever designed. At least it kills much faster than any other design I've seen so far. Salvaging untouched Titans can be considered a fairly good bonus on top of it all. On my testgame, even a shielded android was cut down into pieces fairly fast..

So here, meet the Ghost Dragon!

Titan Name: (Ghost Dragon) (Assault Close Combat Titan)
Chassis: Mark MK-A1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 199.9t (200t maximum) Height : 18 [meter]
Bmt : 37 (32 kph) Reduce Heat: -4.5C/sec.
Jmt : 12 (100 kph) for 37 secs Cost : 463967 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> urania [Engine 7] [CT ]
Heatreg.:Mark MH-II [Heat A]
Flare :FL Frontier [Flare4] [RT ]
Shield :Simson-Light [Shld1] [CBT ]
D.C.S. :Solidon [D.C.S.5] [LT ]
LifeSup.:Bisvo Inc. [Life 6] [RT ]
Scanner :Mark X-S [Scan 6] [Head]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [LT ]
E.C.M :TraCop [E.C.M. 5] [RT ]
JumpPort:Mark MJ-I [Jump 6]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] NEUTRON BLASTER
[RA ] NEUTRON BLASTER
[LA ] NEUTRON BLASTER
[LA ] NEUTRON BLASTER
[RA ] CHAIN SAW
[LA ] CHAIN SAW
[CT ] MEDIUM LASER
[RL ] MEDIUM LASER
[LL ] MEDIUM LASER

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (13) Dullaroy 025 [036mm]
[RT ] (29) Vicenium 052 [087mm]
[CT ] (29) Dullaroy 062 [089mm]
[CBT ] (17) Vicenium 049 [083mm]
[LT ] (29) Vicenium 052 [087mm]
[RA ] (27) Dullaroy 049 [071mm]
[LA ] (27) Dullaroy 049 [071mm]
[LowT] (17) Vicenium 058 [098mm]
[RL ] (23) Vicenium 057 [095mm]
[LL ] (23) Vicenium 057 [095mm]

Armorindex: 3.72 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 234 [APts]
External: 510 [APts] Max:[098mm]
Total Armor: 744 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Assault Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Defensives Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : D.C.S

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:17 pm

Originally posted by Jukka Mikkonen:
Okay, seems like I found it! This has got to be the most dangerous titan I've ever designed. At least it kills much faster than any other design I've seen so far. Salvaging untouched Titans can be considered a fairly good bonus on top of it all. On my testgame, even a shielded android was cut down into pieces fairly fast..

So here, meet the Ghost Dragon!

To be *really* sure maybe you should have tested it against a shielded Cyborg with Constitution 20 and a LS 6 <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 10:14 pm

Chain Saws on assaults = dead weight.