Clouds kaput?

[larryfulkerson]

How come there are no clouds over the muddy hexes? I don't mind having muddy hexes, we all know there are muddy hexes in every war ( watch any war movie for ref. ). And I don't mind clouds. Almost all of us can walk outside and see that there are clouds in every war ( ref.=self ). But I might reasonably expect that a muddy hex have a cloud over it. If the clouds here are just eye candy, that's cool. I'll buy that. No problemo. BUT if weather really does effect combat, and I'm assured it does, then why not make the clouds corespond to some reasonably effected hex(es). Just a thought off the top of my head just now.

[larryfulkerson]

And another thing..........

I'm a pilot. I depend on ILS and GPS to get me safely to and fro in whatever weather there is, even at night, even in bad weather at night. If I lost all my navigation aids I might just as well do a split-S into the ground my odds are so low at finding an airport in bad weather ( rain / snow / whathaveyou ) at night. And here we have ( in the picture below ) a bomber unit at an airport in a bad weather condition for at least 1/2 week ( 1/2 week turns ). I seriously doubt that a WWII pilot of, whatever nationality, could really really find his way around in bad weather, given that he has no DMI, ILS, LVOR, GPS, or any other kind of nav aid. He may perhaps have on board an ADI to steer by but I doubt it very much since those aircraft were built by the lowest bidder. I'm wondering if it's accurate to really allow an airport to allow operations to be conducted from it in inclement weather. Just a thought.

[ColinWright]

Yes on one, no on two.

It's for that very reason that clouds severely impact air operations in TOAW. The game is oriented around World War Two, and if an airport was socked in, you weren't flying. See the beginning of A Bridge Too Far for an illustration.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
Yes on one, no on two.

What does yes on one and no on two mean? I'm asking that muddy hexes have clouds over them and that airports that have "bad" weather suspend operations? And why not suspend operations on airports that have snow or cats & dogs rain or sleet or T-storms etc. ? I think it's reasonable. And I'm not asking for major change(s) to TOAW I don't believe.

[Curtis Lemay]

Larry, the clouds move, and mud is more complicated than you think. The rain sort of "primes" the hex. Then it takes traffic to turn it into mud, usually. But there can still be enough rain in some cases to turn the hex muddy without traffic, and you have an example of it in your first shot - see the left edge.

Foul weather does affect air operations. While the air unit may still be assigned to the mission in those cases, it will usually have no effect.

[larryfulkerson]

Oh. okie dokie.

[ColinWright]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
Yes on one, no on two.

What does yes on one and no on two mean?

I agree with you about the clouds and the mud -- your first point.

I disagree with you about the clouds at airports -- your second point.

In both cases, reflection leads me to reconsider. As Curtis points out, the clouds do move -- so the mud is perhaps merely being left behind. Is there never mud under clouds? That would be a shortcoming.

As to airports with clouds over 'em being unusable -- well, that might be an interesting idea. However, it could be argued that this is descending to a level of detail TOAW shouldn't bother with. It would also have the net effect of sharply increasing the effect of inclement weather. After all, now not only will the effect of some of the strikes be halved, but some of the aircraft originally making them won't be able to participate at all.

I tend to see the 'clouds' and such as merely reflecting less than perfect weather. And with World War Two aircraft, this would attentuate the effects of airstrikes. The airstrike comes in late because the aircraft had to wait for the ground mist to clear. Some of the aircraft couldn't find the target on account of clouds. Etc. It doesn't reflect really awful weather -- which is, by the way, something that could be addressed.

[ColinWright]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay



Foul weather does affect air operations. While the air unit may still be assigned to the mission in those cases, it will usually have no effect.

I think this statement is inaccurate. Weather is either clouds over the target hex or no clouds over the target hex. If no clouds, no effect at all. If clouds, it'll halve the strength of the attacking aircraft. That's significant, but it's still half the effect -- not no effect.

Similarly, if the map is clouded over, interdiction hits will sharply decline -- but there will still be hits. Where and how do you see 'usually no effect'? In fact, players who have wanted to really shut down air operations have had to resort to putting the formations into garrison deployment. If mounted at all, air strikes will keep having an effect no matter how awful the weather.

Go ahead. Fire up something with aircraft and lousy weather. Find a unit under a nice big rainy storm cloud and bomb it. I'm putting my money on you inflicting damage. Should average out to 50% of what you'll get if you bomb one under sunny skies. Not 'no effect.'