Halftracks

[Iron Knight]

I’d like to know if anyone uses halftracks in random games. I have always toyed with them but I haven’t really found them to be worth their cost, especially the research price tag. My typical track units usually look like this:

Unit 1, with 50-55 Stack:
Tank x 2
Track x 1
Infantry Gun x 1
Infantry x 20
Armored Car or Tank x 1

Unit 2, with 50-55 Stack:
Tank x 1
Track x 2
Infantry Gun x 2
Infantry x 25
Armored Car or Tank x 1

I am also working on a mod that changes SFTs, so if you have any suggestions on what could make halftracks more playable please post your thoughs.

[Twotribes]

I use them. My units are bigger. My Mech units are usually 35 rifle 5 Mg, 5 Mortar, 5 bazooka, 2 assault guns, 1 Tank destroyer,1 flak, 3 half tracks.

I toyed with 50 stack point units, simply don't like them.

My armor Headquarters has 10 Half tracks in it.

[Josh]

Halftracks are a must if you want some Inf with your Panzers. Besides they offer much better protection against Arty and Bombers. So yes I use them, although late in the game I must say, can't afford them early on.
 
@ Twotribes; with units that big you always have a stacking penalty when attacking from multiple hexes, so that's why I stick with the 50-55 rule. The multiple hexes attackbonus has decreased, but still... attacking from say 4-6 hexes still gives you a significant bonus.

[Ande]

I don't care too much about the extra cost of halftracks simply because they can be built in tank factories. After a while your forces will become really saturated with tanks. It is then nice to use that production to mobilize your most experienced forces and artillery. Having mechanized artillery is a huge advantage in offencives.

[Iron Knight]

ORIGINAL: Josh

Halftracks are a must if you want some Inf with your Panzers. Besides they offer much better protection against Arty and Bombers. So yes I use them, although late in the game I must say, can't afford them early on.

I think this is my problem with them. They are only usable after I've really won against the AI, but I've never seen them used in multi-player except in some rare games at the very end (I guess this is true of heavy tanks as well). I'd like to see them be viable in the earlier stages of the game, before the final push. Or am I just too reliant on infantry based units?

[82ndtrooper]

I use halftracks a lot. They save your infantry from taking a lot of casualties so that allows me to produce more PP.  The less infantry I have to produce the more PP and supply I can produce.

[Iron Knight]

Edit/removed post: Cool, didn't see the new prevent stats. Sad that I never noticed the effect though...

[82ndtrooper]

no in ATG vic designed the half-tracks to help take damage for your infantry to make them more cost effective and worth while to build. If you use infantry a lot and you try using half-tracks you will see the difference in how many casualties your infantry takes. I consider them a vital piece of equipment and I get them asap.

[Iron Knight]

Cool, I will have to pay more attention in my AI games. Do you upgrade them? Those III's & IV's are pricey.

[Josh]

ORIGINAL: 82ndtrooper

no in ATG vic designed the half-tracks to help take damage for your infantry to make them more cost effective and worth while to build. If you use infantry a lot and you try using half-tracks you will see the difference in how many casualties your infantry takes. I consider them a vital piece of equipment and I get them asap.

That's a +1
There is indeed a huge difference in the number of casualties your Inf takes. So yes they are more worth than they were in AT, maybe I should consider building a Tankfactory early on... so I can churn out those halftracks.

[phatkarp]

I've only used them so far in one PBEM game, and then only because I had a surplus of PP and some elite rifles I wanted to protect.  

[Adam Rinkleff]

I assume the people who use them are playing much larger maps, I doubt people are making many of them on a small map where light tanks and armored cars are typically the decisive units. My plan is to revise the tech tree so it actually fits on a small map.

[mllange]

That's a +1
There is indeed a huge difference in the number of casualties your Inf takes. So yes they are more worth than they were in AT, maybe I should consider building a Tankfactory early on... so I can churn out those halftracks.

There is indeed a huge difference in the number of casualties your Inf takes. So yes they are more worth than they were in AT, maybe I should consider building a Tankfactory early on... so I can churn out those halftracks.

Only if you have the resources (raw) to churn out the halftracks, otherwise your factory gains you little if anything.

[Josh]

"...Only if you have the resources (raw) to churn out the halftracks, otherwise your factory gains you little if anything..."
 
Yep, that's the new balancing act Vic introduced with the oil/ore/supplies thing. Recently against the AI I took some tankfactories, only to find out that I was very low on ore. Then when I finally had ore I was much too low on oil, tanks stopped moving that kind of thing. So then, although being able to produce tanks/halftracks, I had to create new units that moved by horses... LOL. Quite historical I'd say. 

[phatkarp]

It is the resource issue, oil in particular, that makes me hesitant to go for halftracks.  I also hate wasting PP on technologies that are only going to be marginally useful.  If I'm only going to have a handful of divisions with halftracks, the cost is usually not worth it. 

OTH, I've played some games with reduced research costs.  In those games I would definitely consider halftracks, but only after I find myself with a substantial fuel surplus.

[EmTom]

Halftracks are very cheap to research. I think they are worth investing in as trucks also eat oil and cost production but they die much easier. Therefore art regiment with halftracks will remain mobile after some pounding but the same regiment with trucks will not.

The difference between trucks and halftrucks can not be calculated in raw, oil and production only but reliability and survivability has to be calculated too.

I only recently started to use halftracks and I am so happy to have them that I wonder how was I able to manage the war with trucks only.

[Twotribes]

The oil issue bothers me. There is to high a cost in oil to use the mechanized forces. Germany had over 20 Panzer Divisions and numerous halftrack mounted Panzer Grenaiders. They did not have serious fuel problems until very late in the war. The US was totally vehicular mounted. So was the British and French Armies after 1940.

Further horses can NOT be used for strategic movement. And trains may be fuel free but they are limited to tracks and the raw cost in making them is HUGE.

However as to the " I need halftracks for my artillery to replace trucks" argument, my non mech forces are totally horse drawn, including all guns of all types. Trucks are to valuable to use for transport in a Division unless I am desperate. I research Halftrack as soon as I can and start pumping out however many my raw levels will allow. I research halftrack before medium tank.

[Zaratoughda]

Hmmmm... for me, playing one hex start against 4-5 AI, I *only* build rifle units when I have a port and need to defend it from possible naval invasion. The fact that rifle can get up to 200 entrenchment is the major factor there.

Otherwise, other than staff and trucks in HQs, I build all armored cars, and go to medium tanks as the game wears on (medium tanks are blind, you still need armored cars so you can see), along with artillery and trucks, fighters and dive bombers.

This is a major offensive force approach and the problem is, running out of oil. Happens to me all the time and when it does happen, my fighters won't intercept.

So, for this approach you need to get all your oil up to L2 just for a minor campaign, and typically get all of it up to L3 for major operations. Yeah, sure helps to capture enemy oil that is already up to L3.

So, yeah, early on I got a LOT of engineers running around and spending all my production on PP so I can get those resources up.

Initially, I need to upgrade some ore first just to get things off the ground but I almost never have to get ore up to L3.

Another small problem is enemy units on mountain tops, or deep in woods that are difficult or impossible for armor to eliminate. I typically take out the ones on mountain tops with artillery or dive bombers, and sometimes build SMG (sometimes with mortors) when it is necessary to go deep into woods.

The AI, typically builds a combination of units and, their infantry cannot stand up to my army of armored cars, and they don't have enough armor otherwise. If they do, the dive bombers are great at taking out enemy armor. Then of course, the AI will build flak but usually that does not affect things too much.

Oh, the one thing the AI will do that is dangerous to this approach... build a lot of AT guns. These are DEADLY against armored cars, and you gotta take them out with dive bombers or... knock their readiness down to almost nothing with artillery and then attack.

Zaratoughda

[Adam Rinkleff]

I made the following mod in the games I played: only trucks, halftracks,and armored cars can carry infantry. This gives them more of a purpose since you can't use the tanks for transport anymore.

[british exil]

Amoured cars can carry inf but tanks not? Should be the other way round. The british Humber,the Daimler, the Staghound,the german Spähwagen 222, the Soviet BA64 these were small Vehicles. They can carry Inf. But a tank can't?
The light tanks maybe not they were just the size of the amoured cars, but a Sherman, a Matilda, a Tiger?

Maybe the PP's needed for research should be reduced or the "cost" to produce needs to be smaller then a Halftrack becomes more interesting.

The halftrack is a great transporter but the cost is just too high compared to a lorry/truck or the battle vehicles.

Mat