Clarification for Player's Manual

[Max 86]

Hi all,

I wanted to start a thread to clarify some issues that have been discussed on the forum for inclusion in the Player's Manual. I have done some heavy editing on section 3, game interface and section 4 units. The unit data in section 4 will appear as it does in the left hand panel. Lots of imporvement there.

The first thing I wanted to cover is Supply.

1. Supply is checked once per day (and the first turn of a scenario). Does this happen at 0600 hrs each morning? Define Game Turn mentioned in manual.

2. Supply lines can be traced across rivers regardless of bridges or roads?

3. Under Supply Status Effects it mentions losing a point of quality and a Level of quality. What is a level of quality? (5.1.3, 3rd bullet)

4. Even though supply sources can not be captured or destroyed, if it is occupied by an enemy unit, no supply will be provided to friendly units since supply can not pass thru enemy ZOCs.

There will be more questions / clarifications as I go through section 5, Sequence of Play so thanks for any help.

[sabre1]

Wouldn't game turn be defined as going through all the phases = 1 turn?

[PirateJock]

1. Supply is checked once per day (and the first turn of a scenario). Does this happen at 0600 hrs each morning? Define Game Turn mentioned in manual.

Yes that's what I've seen; the first turn of a game and once a day thereafter at 0600.

2. Supply lines can be traced across rivers regardless of bridges or roads?

Yes - have a look at this thread where I checked it out.

3. Under Supply Status Effects it mentions losing a point of quality and a Level of quality. What is a level of quality? (5.1.3, 3rd bullet)

A point or level of Quality is the same thing. A unit's Quality rating is set within the range 1 - 10. When a unit's supply status goes to None there's a 50% chance that its Quality goes down by 1. I assume every day it's in None this 50% chance of a decrease in unit quality is possible.

4. Even though supply sources can not be captured or destroyed, if it is occupied by an enemy unit, no supply will be provided to friendly units since supply can not pass thru enemy ZOCs.

I've run a couple of tests placing an enemy unit on the friendly supply source. The only unit that appears to be affected is the Division HQ which goes to Limited and then None. The subordinate units remain in Full supply throughout.

Cheers

[Wolfe1759]

ORIGINAL: PirateJock

2. Supply lines can be traced across rivers regardless of bridges or roads?

Yes - have a look at this thread where I checked it out.

I assume this is because if in Travel posture any unit, and thus I assume the supply "unit" presumably wheeled can cross a river at increased movement cost

4. Even though supply sources can not be captured or destroyed, if it is occupied by an enemy unit, no supply will be provided to friendly units since supply can not pass thru enemy ZOCs.

I've run a couple of tests placing an enemy unit on the friendly supply source. The only unit that appears to be affected is the Division HQ which goes to Limited and then None. The subordinate units remain in Full supply throughout.

Assuming that your occupying units were not in Travel posture (which would have meant that they had no ZOC and thus had no ZOC to cut a supply line) this would appear to be a bug as from my reading of the rules (Matrix version) if any unit is reliant on a supply source to which the supply line is cut they will be affected by supply shortage.


[/quote]

[sabre1]

So this begs the question, does supply even matter?

[Max 86]

Thanks for the feedback. This will be captured in the manual. I would say #4 is a bug as well. A nice little note to players.

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: sabre1

So this begs the question, does supply even matter?

Yes it matters. I have learnt that a unit out of supply cannot attack. Seems to have little effect on defense or anything else. (where are the developers?).

A strength of this game is there is no such thing as hex ownership. Supply cannot be traced through enemy ZOC but can be traced through a hex that in other games would be considered "owned" by the other side. It means supply cannot become "gamey" as it can in other games.

-

[PirateJock]

The fact subordinate units remained in Full supply struck me as odd. I was planning at looking at this later today ... more news as events warrant.

Cheers

[Max 86]

ORIGINAL: PirateJock

[

3. Under Supply Status Effects it mentions losing a point of quality and a Level of quality. What is a level of quality? (5.1.3, 3rd bullet)

A point or level of Quality is the same thing. A unit's Quality rating is set within the range 1 - 10. When a unit's supply status goes to None there's a 50% chance that its Quality goes down by 1. I assume every day it's in None this 50% chance of a decrease in unit quality is possible.

I think I am confused here. I thought a unit's quality is much higher than 1-10 scale? I have seen units with quality rating of 40-70+. What am I missing?

On anther note:
1. Does anyone want to try and explain the Initiative determination calc? In the manual it says:

Highest single DHQ leadership factor on the board:
+2: Disruption x .75
+1: Disruption x .9
This side has initiative last turn
Disruption x .5
If there is friendly air support
Disruption x .75

I have no idea what most of this means. Very confusing and incomplete.

2. What role does Anti-Aircraft value play other than dispersing para drops / glider landings? Maybe I have not seen it yet but there appears to be no air superiority or air to air simulated combat that would modify the AA value.

[PirateJock]

With Quality - a unit always has a quality value in the range 1 to 10. In some of the checks, for example a Quality Check, a 1 to 100 roll is used and so the Quality is converted to a Quality % by multiplying the unit's quality rating by 10.

With Initiative - the first step in the calc is to total the disruption values of all units for each side. Then each value is modified using the modifiers you've listed. And the side with the lowest value gets initiative for that turn.

I haven't had a look at AA yet.

Cheers

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: Max 86
Does anyone want to try and explain the Initiative determination calc?

The problem with the paragraph is a logic problem. We tend to think “add some numbers and the one with the highest total wins”

This one reads ( as do others in this game) “get a total and the lowest wins”

To have the initiative you need to have less disruption than your opponent. You can improve your chances if:

-you went first last turn

-you have air support.

-

[Fred98]

[font=calibri]Add the disruption level of every unit on the map, Say we come up with a total 200[/font]
[font=calibri]The highest DHQ on the map has a disruption of 2[/font]
[font=calibri]We had the initiative last turn[/font]
[font=calibri]We have friendly air support[/font]
[font=calibri]200 x 0.75 x 0.50  x 0.75 = Modified Disruption level of 56.25[/font]
[font=calibri]-[/font]
 
[font=calibri] [/font]
[font=calibri] [/font]

[Max 86]

Thanks Joe. That clears it up. The bottom four lines should really be two lines like:

This side has initiative last turn - Disruption x .5
If there is friendly air support - Disruption x .75

Sometimes I over-anal-lyze things and can't see the forest for the trees.

[PirateJock]

Bumped for Michael

Cheers

[MichaelCooney]

1) Supply occurs at the start of the game and then every 0600 turn.
2) Despite what the manual doesn't say, the code explicitly checks for bridges in order to draw Supply lines across rivers.   I'll add this to the issues list.
3) Covered...
4) Plopping an enemy unit on a supply source should definitely nullify it.  I'll add this to the issues list.

[Obsolete]

I've run a couple of tests placing an enemy unit on the friendly supply source. The only unit that appears to be affected is the Division HQ which goes to Limited and then None. The subordinate units remain in Full supply throughout.

I've noticed this as well. While there may be some sort of design ruling as to why this happens, common sense tells me it probably should not occur like this. At least, there should be some sort of decay on a unit's supply since the HQ will eventually run out of distributions.

I don't really have a problem in considering this as a bug either, unless some interesting explanation comes forth.

[MichaelCooney]

Good find.