A snapshot AAR

[Tarhunnas]

I am currently playing a game against timmyab. We are using the latest patch, the 260 VP campaign and mild winter rules. I thought it would be worthwile to present some maps and statistics at certain points of the campaign. Not a full AAR, as I have no time, but kind of a snapshot AAR.

I am playing the Soviets and timmyab the Germans. Timmyab and I have played before and I would say we are well matched opponents.

The first snapshot is from turn 10, as I didn't think of saving maps and statistics until then. I have performed a fairly forward but not stupidly forward defense. We had the usual encirclements on turn one including the Lvovo pocket. After that, there have been a couple of small to mediun pockets of ten divisions each or so but no major pockets.

[Tarhunnas]

The next one is from turn 13. Nothing really dramatic has happened since the last one really. The Germans are pressing hard towards Moscow, rather stubbornly, and I will have a hard time stopping them. Leningrad has fallen and Kharkov is cleaned out.

Map before Soviet moves.

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 14. A pretty bad turn for me. Moscow is almost surrounded, I lost Tula with 12 Arm or so to a raid, and an army got surrounded in front of Stalino.

The only thing positive is that I have managed to evacuate almost all the important stuff from Moscow.

[Tarhunnas]

The next one shows the Moscow area turn 16 before Soviet moves. Moscow was surrounded and I lost 10 divisions or so there. There is also a pocket north of Tula.

[Tarhunnas]

The next one is turn 17, last turn before mud. I was a bit optimistic with an army east of Kharkov and got surrounded. I should have known better.

[gingerbread]

3.2M (with Hiwis) by end of Barb campaign assuming non-random; is this due to the fairly forward defense? I'm mostly interested if this is an early benchmark of how it would be with a mid Barb SD check. Though with 340+ factories, ARM is not going to be the bottleneck.

Did you feed your partisans? Any effect?

The Axis does not seem to be lacking fuel.

[timmyab]

I'll just add some thoughts and a map now and again.

The game has been dominated by T's insistence on defending forward. This makes the game really good fun but also handicaps him a lot. I'm thinking of returning the compliment in the blizzard but the thought of losing thirty or forty divisions puts me off a bit. I still think that a two hex minimum move for German divisions could be the answer to that.

This is the end of turn 15.
As soon as Moscow is surrounded my attention turns immediately to the flanks. Those bulges must be pushed back or there's no prizes for guessing what will happen come the winter. 4th pz army plus Model's elite 1st corps are given the task of taking Torzhok and Kalinin to the North and part of 2nd pz army comes up from Kharkov to drive North of Tula.

The campaign yielded very few arms factories but a raid on Tula last turn and about 12 locked down in the Donets this turn has been an unexpected bonus.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

The game has been dominated by T's insistence on defending forward. This makes the game really good fun but also handicaps him a lot. I'm thinking of returning the compliment in the blizzard but the thought of losing thirty or forty divisions puts me off a bit. I still think that a two hex minimum move for German divisions could be the answer to that.

Did you mean a two hex maximum? At any rate I applaud both of you for playing in a competitive but fun style. Good luck and may the most forward defender win! [8D]

[timmyab]

No I mean so that German divisions can always move at least two hexes regardless of ZOCs. This would negate most of the ZOC locking that forces them to run across the whole front in Dec and Jan or risk losing dozens of divisions. With a two hex minimum move they could take a chance and try to hold their ground without fear of getting locked. This would give a more historical result and better represent German superior tactical abilities.

[Tarhunnas]

The game mechanisms have up to now not been really good a representing German hedgehog defense in winter, or indeed any kind of salients and temporarily isolated positions. If you're surrounded you're dead is the truth in WITE, and there will be no Demyansks or Kholms or smaller hedgehogs.

I am not sure a two hex minimum move for the Germans is the way to go though. I have admittedly no experience of the mild winter yet (though lack of experience is usually not an impediment to strong opinions on this forum) but I would hope that the mild winter will make local German counterattacks possible to restore communications to units isolated by Soviet winter thrusts.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

No I mean so that German divisions can always move at least two hexes regardless of ZOCs.

Thanks for the explanation; I see what you mean now. But this is not possible in the current game engine, is it?

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
I would hope that the mild winter will make local German counterattacks possible to restore communications to units isolated by Soviet winter thrusts.

O.k I'll try to play it that way and we'll see what happens. From my limited 'mild' winter experience I would expect to lose a lot of divisions across the entire front which will basically end this game, but it'll be a useful experiment.

[Tarhunnas]

Don't feel constrained by my thoughts Tim! Play it whatever way you are comfortable with! The only thing that would make me miffed is a wholesale withdrawal across the whole front, but withdrawing from salients here and there would be completely OK IMHO.

[gingerbread]

I think some players use temporary motorization to get ZOC-locked Germans free. AP should not be a problem at that stage of the game, but it will cost some vehicles.

[timmyab]

^I thought you had to be not in ZOC to motorize a unit or has the rule changed?

[gingerbread]

Never tried it, but I read up on it seeing your comment. While the rules does not specifically prohibit motorizing while in ZOC, they do prohibit moving adjacent to an enemy unit. So I admit I spoke in ignorance...[&o]

[timmyab]

Actually something of that sort wouldn't be a bad idea. It does need something to get the Germans out of these ZOC locks in the 41 blizzard.

[gingerbread]

You might want to checkout Saper222 vs Harrybanana. Saper broke down the German Divs so while he did lose some units, the total was not that high.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Temporary motorization doesn't work with ZOC. Already tried it so its basically useless as a blizzard runaway tool.

The Germans do not need to fall back in December anymore. I have just completed a full Blizzard and didn't lose a single division while conducting no runaway

[loki100]

interesting to see the results of a German focus on Moscow in 1941.

aye, tend to the view that with the mild blizzard it plays out completely different to the conventional response in early versions