Refund

[HailRider]

I am sorry to say that I am fully frustrated with CMANO. I have asked for a refund, as suggested by one of the developers. I have received the refund. As such, I have deleted the game from my hard drive, and will no longer be participating on this forum. I thought I would give you a few parting remarks that may help for future development.

1) The hotkeys are really important. I have now used Autohotkey, a free and easy to use program, to make my own hotkeys using the menu items in CMANO. I have found this greatly improved playability. The only problem is that when the menus change, I would have had to change the Autohotkey file as well. A full complement of hotkeys, and maybe even a way to change them, would greatly improve playability.

2) The game is way more complicated than any of you non-noobs remember it being. WAY MORE!! That is why some sort of hints/suggestions file would be great. I have received such information in the forum at times, to great success. Ballogan has put in a great deal of time into making his videos, but you cannot search through them to find exactly what you are looking for in a timely fashion. Thanks Ballogan, you obviously love this game, and are a great resource. But I think that having a set of hints would be even better.

3) I understand that this is a complex game, and there is a lot to learn. When people on the forum chastise you for asking questions, and say things like "I know the answer but I won't tell you", it makes a noob feel like giving up. The forum needs to be a free and open place. What is the matter with answering dumb questions on the forum. That way, when another noob searches for the same question (which may not in fact be that dumb for the uninitiated), they can actually find an answer easily. People should welcome any question they can answer. Answer the question constructively and feel good about yourself.

4) There are a lot of bugs in this game. I have had the game crash almost every time I have played it. It is very hard to search, and search, and search for the answer, not asking on the forum for fear of some nasty person belittling you for asking something, only to find out that the problem is not with your knowledge base, but with a bug in the program. There are very serious problems in CMANO with documentation, expectations, and bugs under the hood. These three do not mix well at all.

In the end, I love the idea. I love the look (except the windows look, that is. I am a mac person after all) of the main map and log. I love the detail. I love the possibilities. I really want to love playing this game, but I cannot.

I will try again in 2-3 years and see if it has improved to the point where I can repurchase it. I really want to.

Thank you for reading. I do not mean any disrespect or harm. I am truly trying to be constructive.


Best wishes and godspeed,

Hailrider

[PaulWRoberts]

I understand being frustrated about a complex game, especially if it's giving you what seems to be unusual technical trouble.

Since you sound like you'd prefer to enjoy the game rather than trash it, I suggest watching all the videos you can. Baloogan's series are great not only for seeing what CMANO can do but also for a general education in modern naval operations.

[mikmykWS]

Bummer. Well we hope you'll be back in a few years. Thanks for your input and sorry your experience wasn't good. This is not definitely not the norm.

Mike

[RoryAndersonCDT]

Cheers Hailrider,

I wish there was more I could do to help new players in learning the art of Command.

It is very hard to search, and search, and search for the answer, not asking on the forum for fear of some nasty person belittling you for asking something, only to find out that the problem is not with your knowledge base, but with a bug in the program.

My apologies for that; its one of the main reasons why I recommended the chat room over and over [:D]
Its easier to learn in a positive environment. If you yell at a student who raises his hand as he has a question the student will not raise his hand in the future.

I think you 100% have the right attitude; and the willingness to use a game like command as a learning experience.

Godspeed good sir!

Baloogan

[thewood1]

No one got chastised for asking questions. They got pushed back on when they didn't take advice and didn't actually use the documentation that was suggested. It was pointed out several times where they could find the answers to their questions. Saying that people get chastised for asking questions is a little rewriting history.

[thewood1]

The thing I don't understand is that I am no naval warfare savant. I went 4-5 years without playing Harpoon. I read a little about WW1 naval warfare and most of the early Clancy and Bond books. Yet I don't seem to have the learning issues that several other people have. I start up Command; I pick a mid to small scenario; I play it; I'm done. I'll come across something I don't understand and I go to wikiedia, the manual, or baloogan's site and research it.

I really don't get how hard that is. If something happens that doesn't match my reality, I generally write it off as the devs know more than I do. I really don't understand the people on bug hunts or being obsessed with every single item of the 100,000 items not working the way I would expect them to.

I mean what game at=re you going to play even close to this one...and don't say Harpoon. Harpoon has a hell of a lot more issues than Command and its been worked on for a decade at least.

[kimaera026]

there are mainstream games out right now that have same amount (if not more) of bugs that i've seen so far in Command.
Yet, just like most of those, we enjoy the contents of this one so much that we accept its bugs. Personally, I think CMANO has got much more potential than its flaws.

[Feltan]

The OP posted and left with a good deal of class, so I am not inclined to comment further on him.

However, please note, he has been on the forums exactly one month. You can call that a fair amount of time to try something out; it obviously wasn't for him, at least not now. That will be the nature of things, and again, good on him.

We live in a time where a whole generation of gamers has been raised on computer orcs, elves and goblins casting magic spells -- it really isn't a wonder that a simulation that doesn't provide immediate superficial gratification would not appeal to some people. Gamers coming from WoW or something similar are bound to hit a wall of disbelief and culture shock if they try CMANO. Some of these folks will get won over, converted, and never want to go back. But we need to have a sober understanding that many are just going to "get bored" and leave -- I think that's just the way things are.

Alternatively, to keep up the interest of some, the developers could program in "Health Packs" so our ships could "heal," or maybe include some large breasted animated bimbo with fluffy hair in the help file to assist the hormone challenged teen facing his first wave of inbound anti-ship missiles. I think we should call her Monica. We need some audio files -- "Really? Dude, there isn't a magic spell available for that, you're totally hosed!" [:D]

Regards,
Feltan

[thewood1]

I still don't understand the public statements about refunds. If a game is not for you, just email the developer and publisher and get your refund. Tell them your reasons, they will absorb the info and you can move on. The big public statements seem a little immature.

I bought WITP (basically twice). Never really played it to its full potential. I probably could have gotten a refund, but I just moved on. No public statements about how complicated it was. It was pretty clear it was complicated. Live and Learn. btw, WITP cost about the same as Command and still don't think I wasted my money.

[Moltke71]

I'll weigh in here. I played CMANO over a month before reviewing it; the OP just played a month. Gamers must get over their need for instant gratification just as some reviewers should take more time before writing.

CMANO is a fine game and has tremendous support.

[DannyJim_slith]

Guys - he's gone. You're arguing in an empty room.

[AlmightyTallest]

nevermind.

[Michael7619]

I think CMANO is worth every euro i spent on it. It take's time and effort to understand the game. I have
played for months but there is still much to learn. It might be quite a challence to players who don't have experience
from games like harpoon or so. But it's worth it. Devs are making new builds and improvments so fast that i have not
seen that in any game i have played before.

What comes to Hailrider; I do not see any reason why anyone should kick a man who is already down. People are different
with different experiences from games. I think it would benefit the forum and the game that people would try to be as poliet
as they can. You do not want tho alienate new players. More players, more money, better game.
Thats my opinion, but there's a saying that opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

[SSN754planker]

Can we stop beatin this dead horse?

With CMANO, most you win, a few we lose. He did leave an open door to come back...So might be a win later down the line.

[chemkid]

@hailrider - i read your posts and all. hope to see you on this forum again someday! [:)]

cheers!
chem!

[thewood1]

I am not kicking anyone when they are down. But you want to start a whole thread on getting a refund, I assume you want to get people's feedback/opinion/attention on that choice. Why else would you do it that way. A classy act and one I respect with no qualifications is going to the developers and asking for a refund...no fuss, no muss. But when you feel the need to bare it publicly, you will get feedback and questions.

I got a refund on an HPS game a few years ago and just quietly walked away. I felt no need to publicly espouse on it. The game didn't function for anyone using it, it was not what I expected, HPS offered a refund and I was done with it.

[dox44]

i agree it can be a very frustrating experience. i've been playing a little over a
month with minor successes here and there. i wish i had contacted you before you
refunded.

when i get frustrated, i walk away from CMANO and don't play again for several days
--seems to help.

i agree baloogan's site is great. i haven't seen a lot of CTDs. I play mainly the small scenarios--maybe thats why...i'm not sure.

thanks for the post...casebier

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: casebier

i agree it can be a very frustrating experience. i've been playing a little over a
month with minor successes here and there. i wish i had contacted you before you
refunded.

when i get frustrated, i walk away from CMANO and don't play again for several days
--seems to help.

Hello,

Can you describe your pain points? We are constantly trying to remove obstacles to enjoying the game but first we must be made aware of them. The more details the better.

Thanks!

[Silverhawk85]

Hi I'm new here. I played the game only for a few hours and my pain points already start with the first tutorial scenario.

At some points the tutorial textes seem to belong to a totally different scenario. For example when you are advised to select the airfield and click the 72/72 button. First of all there are two airfields which belong to the blue team. One has no such button and the second has a "42/72" button. Was not sure if this was ment.

Then there were no boogies there as described in the text. I think they went out for lunch.

Then there are some unprecise advices. For example I was adviced to change some EMCON settings and then uncheck the 1/3 rule box. The text didn't say where to find the 1/3 rule box. While the EMCON window was still open and the text did't say that I can close it, I searched for it in the EMCON window but couldn't find it. It took some time until I found it. I was like searching for easter eggs.

In my opinion the game simply needs proper tutorials with precise descriptions which explain step by step what to do and where to find it. It's a bit annoying to get stuck in the first tutorial which is ment to teach you the essentials of the game because of such things described above and beeing forced to consult the manual or google for it.

But I'm still motivated to learn how to play this game. I see it's potential.

[thewood1]

The 1/3 rule is explained on page 70/71 around mission planning. I looked at the tutorial explanation it specifically walks you through the mission building. It states uncheck 1/3 rule. Its right there in the box they told you to open.

All of your fourth paragraph is part of phase 1 - step 2. If you follow those in order, the 1/3 button is right in front of you.

As to the 42/72 vs 72/72, I think there is randomness there. It said 40/72 when I opened it. You should be able to figure out that one. There is only one Aircraft button in the unit display.

The two Fallon bases are listed as a single unit airfield and a marker. One of them is only a marker for reference. It could probably be explained better, but again, if you read the information available to you in the game you will see that.

The tutorials aren't perfect, but they are better than a lot of games I have played. I think its a little htperbole to claim the tutorial doesn't come close to matching the scenario.