Ketza (Axis) vrs Bomazz

[Ketza]

Turn 10 I surrender. He is just too good at handling the Soviet army. Even leaving a buffer hex he trashes my Panzers and scoots away. Leaving any Axis unit adjacent to a Soviet stack of 2 divisions is suicide. Hell even a bridgehead with a Panzer corps is toast.

I really think its time to scratch the 1-1 2-1 rule. Soviet player experience has surpassed the need for it.

Thoughts?

I am going to play SmokingDave in my next game. I know he is a good Axis player but maybe he will make an occasional error as a Soviet. [:D]

One could hope!

[Flaviusx]

Given the option, I would always forego it playing as the Soviet. I don't feel I need it and it makes things way too easy.

[Ketza]

Agreed Flavius.

[smokindave34]

I believe Moravel said that in 1.08 we will have the option to toggle off the 1-1/2-1 rule. I agree the Soviets don't need it any longer. As far as our game goes, I'm rusty as Soviets (haven't played as Soviet in well over a year) so I'm sure I'll make some unforced errors which should make matters a bit more manageable for you Ketza. I'm not sure when 1.08 is coming out.

[M60A3TTS]

I understand that some people play to take advantage of that rule, but I never have. Very few of my victories are less than 2:1 when the 1:1 rule is in effect.

[charlie0311]

Hi guys,

I am so totally not getting it. I see max(approx) sov offensive (summer 41) CV of about 30 (9 units in three hexes), so having indicated defensive CV of over 16 or so should be a winner for the axis.

I have read some stuff about the value of mass and something called "ready elements" but can't figure how it computes.

[charlie0311]

and wait, there's more. sov arm seems to "deplete" or maybe it's becomes "unready" very easily.

and MP costs/limitation seem to really restrict sov mobility.

why not,as axis, just pound away frontally to get sov morale into low 40's, then not long before they start routing, no?

[Flaviusx]

Charlie, the best way to figure this out is to sit down, solo, and set up lots and lots of combats. Then repeat those combats, changing the amount of units involved until you find out what the bare minimum is for success. Fiddle with the leaders involved, they make a surprising difference.

It's not an exact science and the combat model is opaque, but after a while, you get a good feel for what you can get away with. It takes surprisingly little to push the Axis back. CVs are deceptive. But here's a rough and ready heuristic: if you can match the displayed defensive CV with your own attack factors and have at least middling leaders (5+ in the relevant categories) it is practically a sure thing. Better leaders let you get away with less than that.

It's not hard to do this. Especially with those early beefy rifle divisions in 1941, if you can fill those out before the TOE changes, you can have plenty of 3 and 4 CV rifle divisions. 2-3 of these will usually match most Axis single divisions out in the open. Some panzers might be a bit tougher and terrain also matters, but the game shows you the effects of terrain on the defensive CV.

[charlie0311]

you're talking about when 1-1 really means 2-1,eh?

[bomazz]

Hey Ketza,

Sorry to see the game end, It was a interesting match up, and you were doing well.
I never contrive to game a game, I have found that the deciding factors are weight of men, and fatigue.

If you have 1 division I'll attack with 2 to 4 if you have three divisions(hexes I rarely attack) I will attack with 9to12. I have found this works wonders regardless of printed values, also a nice trick our friend Hooper introduced to me, is the fatigue attack, you literally wear down the opposing forces. Using quick attacks or deliberate with a single unit,this saps the will to fight..then slam them with weight of men and any hex can fall no matter the type or value.(works as axis too, if you can get past some losses)

If you want to keep the axis rolling dont give the soviet the opportunity to attack you. Distance to the attack is their enemy, push your pockets out further. Oh and never leave Infantry single stacked in front of a line of Russians[:)]

Just my two cents...Hope to see you on the Field again

BO.

[charlie0311]

Say Bo,

Does your (above) attack protocol (sov) work without the 1-1 is really 2-1 for sov.

[Ketza]

Bomazz you are an amazing player and I wasn't trying to suggest you were gaming the system. You are just extremely good at playing the Soviets and I knew going into the game it was going to be frustrating at times but wanted to try a few things against a top tier player.

Thanks

[bomazz]

Hello Charlie,

I dont know? Like I stated above, I attack with superior weight in men and fresh troops. I really do not count numbers, as I know and love that this game is flexible in that regard. Printed values are .... squishy, they can be double that or half that. So if you get past looking at the numbers and use the formula..weight of men..and fatigue as your guide you will have a much better experience.(as soviet)

As Russian I rarely counter attack until turn 10. After turn 10 I only target over aggressive units left in poor position. And I always attack with far more then needed to push the hex.it is effective at increasing moral of my troops, while keeping losses at a reasonable level. If you take more attacks with fewer troops per hex gaming the system you will increase your losses as well. even with the gamy system the losses can be high even in victory with the soviets in 41.

If you want to be a good soviet player(or just player in general)..play the axis a few times. This will give you an Idea how to make their life miserable..and likewise for axis powers, as it will teach you the weaknesses of your opponents army is movement not attacking, regardless of the gamy 1to1 rules in 41.

that is just my two coppers worth. Dont claim on being much of a player but I do enjoy a good war[:)]

[bomazz]

No worries Ketza, Thanks for the kind words, but I am still learning as well. Though I have improved in lots of ways. Do you ever play the soviets? Just wondering.

[Ketza]

I do play the Soviets but have switched over to Axis for now.

[bomazz]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

I do play the Soviets but have switched over to Axis for now.

Well let me know when you want to take on the role of Soviet High Command again, and Ill run at you with the Axis powers. I enjoy both roles equally, like playing two different games really.

[HITMAN202]

It's discouraging when such a great game, WITE, twix two great players (Ketza is far too modest) ends in a Soviet victory in 10 turns !!! It's astounding !!! For a German player in a campaign scenario spend 1 1/2 to 3+ hours a turn only to get smashed before the '41 winter... I'd rather watch soccer !!! Sorry guys, no offense to the "futball" fanatics on this bulletin board (I bet Sillyflower feels the same).

Competitive tension between skilled players is crucial to a great game. WITE has become like "futball" to me. I wish many of the insights of Flaviusx were incorporated into the game; not just talked about.

[Michael T]

Hey Hitman my old mate. You should try DC2 Case Blue. I have been playing it for a couple of months now and its a very good game. Far less micromanagement and the next installment is a game on Barbarossa.

PS the Luftwaffe can actually kill Soviet Tanks!!

[bomazz]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

It's discouraging when such a great game, WITE, twix two great players (Ketza is far too modest) ends in a Soviet victory in 10 turns !!! It's astounding !!! For a German player in a campaign scenario spend 1 1/2 to 3+ hours a turn only to get smashed before the '41 winter... I'd rather watch soccer !!! Sorry guys, no offense to the "futball" fanatics on this bulletin board (I bet Sillyflower feels the same).

Competitive tension between skilled players is crucial to a great game. WITE has become like "futball" to me. I wish many of the insights of Flaviusx were incorporated into the game; not just talked about.

smashed is a bit of a overstatement. But he did find some counter attacks painful. I think we was trying a new strategy he had cooked up and found it was not working so called the game. That is all. I still enjoy the game, so I continue to play it. Sorry you are jaded upon this gem, if the polishing continues perhaps it will shine again for you?

best regards Bo

[Ketza]

I did make some headway but a few gambles that needed to work did not. Bomazz is right. I gambled and lost. Back to the drawing board!