New AARs are needed

[larryfulkerson]

We need some AAR's for this forum to boost traffic. Some of you guys out there not doing anything important........how about
starting an AAR for the rest of us to read. Use whatever version of the exe you have. Do it for us.......do it for yourselves.

[sPzAbt653]

Well, an AAR is more than I want to do right now, but since I'm not doing anything important, how about a Scenario Progress Report ? [Screen Shots are much easier than explaining Strategy and Tactics, eh ?]. To be included with the next release:

This is the 'Patton 11-44' Scenario [scrunched down to fit]. 2.5km, 1 Day at Company scale ... small map at 60x40, but hundreds of units. A real mess !! But if you desire some Tactical TOAW, this works.

Not pictured but also included will be a 'Patton 9-44' Scenario. Patton's 'Lorraine Campaign' had a 30 Day pause in between the two scenarios, so no sense in making one scenario with thirty turns of cease fire, right ?

[sPzAbt653]

And a zoom in on the above map. Holy Shit look at all the units !!

[sPzAbt653]

And if that doesn't grab you, how about this one - Normandy 1944 at 1/km !! Battalions and 1 Day Turns. Huge map AND lots of units !! Anybody remember 'Gold Juno Sword' and 'America Invades' ? Now TOAW gives us both at the same time ! [Plus a little more].

Again, scrunched way down to fit here :

[sPzAbt653]

The above Normandy Scenario starts on June 7th [so we can avoid the irritation of attempting to orchestrate a successful landing]. Here is a zoom in on bloody Omaha at the start :

[sPzAbt653]

And another zoom in, this one of Sword Beach :



So, the British were supposed to establish a beachhead, support the Orne crossing by the 6th Para Division, and take the city of Caen, with one infantry division ? Nice plan Monty !!

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Lobster]

How do you handle direct fire and los in TOAW at 1 kilometer?

[sPzAbt653]

Very nice - Is this a new scale provided with TAOW IV?

Thanks !! This was done with TOAW III, so its not a new scale. Avalon Hill proved that there is no reason to ignore scales less than 2.5km with such a game system. There are others for TOAW, I did one for Goodwood, and Telumar did one for Anzio, and Eric Nygaard has done a few. I was playing America Invades one day and decided to do this 1km Normandy for TOAW.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Grognerd

Wow 1 kilometer scale!!! Very nice - Is this a new scale provided with TAOW IV? What other scales will be shipped?

No. There was a reason Norm limited the game to 2.5km. You can't do a proper WW2 and later game below about 2km without including line of sight considerations which are completely gone in TOAW. The amount of work to properly cover both over and under 2.5km would have been huge. A pity actually.

[larryfulkerson]

You can't do a proper WW2 and later game below about 2km without including line of sight considerations

This reminds me of Advanced Squad Leader which was the release right after Squad Leader both releases just
before they went computer-borne. There was a huge binder that kept all the rules in and my copy worn out after a while.
Most of the game time I played ASL was time figuring out the Line-of-Sight from an attacker to the defender. I used a rubber
band and each hex along the rubber band was a potiential block and I had to check each one. For each shot. It was a hassle.

[r6kunz]

Given the limited LOS in bocage country, 1km/hex scale may not be that unrealistic. I might take a look at what adjustments Steve makes and rework a Hürtgen Forest scenario I worked on a while back...

[larryfulkerson]

I might take a look at what adjustments Steve makes and rework a Hürtgen Forest scenario I worked on a while back...

I'd just like to be the first one to give you a word of encouragement. I'd like to see a HF scenario on that scale. That would be
really great. There's so few scenario's at that scale it would be an instant classic. I think so, anyway.

[r6kunz]

We studies 28th Division's ordeal in the HR in C&GS. Lasting impression. Toured it.

Unfortunately, it is last on my list of 14 scenarios to do/redo/revisit for IV. Your words of encouragement will help. I will keep in contact with Steve. Stay tuned...

[76mm]

The graphics in these screenshots look to be the same as TOAW III--presumably the scenarios have not been upgraded to TOAW graphics for play-testing?

[76mm]

We need some AAR's for this forum to boost traffic. Some of you guys out there not doing anything important........how about starting an AAR for the rest of us to read. Use whatever version of the exe you have. Do it for us.......do it for yourselves.

Larry, with all due respect, personally I'm not interested in reading AARs under the current engine.

I'd be happy to read an AAR from a game under the TOAW IV engine, or better yet, some kind of news from the dev about status, progress, design decisions, etc. etc. That's how to build excitement for the game; look to the CS Middle East forum or the Tiller Panzer Battles titles for best practice.

I guess what I'm saying is that if the devs want to boost traffic, the onus is on them or at least the beta testers to do so, and not on those of us who are neither.

[larryfulkerson]

...presumably the scenarios have not been upgraded to TOAW graphics for play-testing?

Um.....we're not allowed to show the TOAW IV graphics yet. Sorry about that.

ORIGINAL: 76mm
I'd be happy to read an AAR from a game under the TOAW IV engine, or better yet, some kind of news from the dev about status, progress, design decisions, etc. etc.

On the beta development forum there's about 6 active AAR's going and 4 completed ones that are due to be moved to the public
forum as soon as we get permission to do so. I'm guessing that will be closer to the actual release date whenever that is.

ORIGINAL: 76mm
That's how to build excitement for the game; look to the CS Middle East forum or the Tiller Panzer Battles titles for best practice.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll check 'em out.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
Um.....we're not allowed to show the TOAW IV graphics yet. Sorry about that.

Understood, just checking.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
On the beta development forum there's about 6 active AAR's going and 4 completed ones that are due to be moved to the public forum as soon as we get permission to do so. I'm guessing that will be closer to the actual release date whenever that is.

Great, look forward to seeing those.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
Thanks for the heads up. I'll check 'em out.

CSME in particular stands out. I can say that I only bought the game because of their pre-release communications and responsiveness.

Similar to TOAW IV, theCSME team was reviving/revamping an old favorite, and frankly it took me a little convincing that the new game would be worth it, rather than paying again for a tired old retread. The same goes even more for TOAW, which I think I've already bought three times over the years in its various guises.

I'll buy this game in a second if it is truly an upgrade; if the dev team doesn't convince me of that prior to release, I'll wait several weeks after release to convince myself via feedback from other players.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: Grognerd

Thanks !! This was done with TOAW III, so its not a new scale. Avalon Hill proved that there is no reason to ignore scales less than 2.5km with such a game system. There are others for TOAW, I did one for Goodwood, and Telumar did one for Anzio, and Eric Nygaard has done a few. I was playing America Invades one day and decided to do this 1km Normandy for TOAW.

Ahhh.. So you actually set the scale in the editor to 2.5 and just scale the map to 1 kilometer. I guess ranged artillery fire would be close enough. I thought about this before but never did anything. As far as units being able to fire out past 1 kilometer. Seems to me 98% of the battles were generally fought at closer ranges. So lack of ranged fire should not have too much negative consequences.

I can't speak for what the other guys did, but for anything under the 2.5 km scale I would say that once you know the subject matter and circumstances, from there you can work things out. We've got the Attrition Divider for casualty rates, Force and Formation Proficiency to tailor the action, Movement Bias for movement rates, and the MRPB setting. If you don't need Direct Fire or Opportunity Fire, then you don't need LOS Rules. For Goodwood there was a concern that the British tanks were taking hits from the German 88's out beyond the 1 km hex, so I figured that the scenario may not work, but I wanted to put it together anyway. Playtesting was successful enough that the scenario was included in the last release [3.4.1.9].

The Ranged Fire for Artillery Units can be fixed with the Bio-Ed. This was necessary in Goodwood, but so far not with this new scenario. Most of the artillery has a range of 5-7 hexes, which is enough to cover a division front [no need for artillery with ranges of 13-18 hexes because that would actually be wrong in this case]. Air Units don't need range adjustments in this case because that can be worked out with Base Location and the Distant Hex setting. Naval Units and Coast Batteries - so far only two limited cases have surfaced. Carentan couldn't be reached by Naval Units, but a small terrain adjustment in the Bay of Vey resolved that. And the Le Havre guns prevented Allied naval support east of Merville, but an Exclusion Zone solved that. So, depending on the subject, things can usually be worked out.