Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

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RedLancer
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Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by RedLancer »

In preparation for the release of War in the East 2 in the Spring, Roger (loki100) and I are going to be making posts to showcase some of the game’s new features that improve on the mechanics of both the original War in the East and War in the West. Feel free to ask questions as we go. As Roger has also written the Manual he has a lot of detailed background knowledge and he’ll also be posting an AAR, starting in January, so you can see the features in play there too.

In this first post we are going to look at some of the more subtle changes that we have made to ground combat and movement. On their own they don’t seem to be big changes but collectively they have quite a significant impact on how the turns play out. There is now a complex interplay of administrative movement, command preparation points , Assault HQs and combat delay.

Roads & Movement

One of the first things you may have noticed with the new map is that each hex now has a road value. Including roads has allowed two changes to be made in the rules. The first is more obvious. Moving through hexes that have poor terrain (like heavy woods and swamps) or weather (mud and snow) but do have a road is cheaper than those that have no roads at all. The second change is a little more complex. It is called rear area administrative movement – any unit that moves along roads in hexes that were friendly at the start of the turn and have no interdiction will pay a reduced movement cost. This will save from 1MP per hex if the road is poor up to 3MP per hex if the road is good. This represents movement in a convoy rather than in a tactical formation. In essence moving a turn later means that units can move further. In reality the impact of adding roads is somewhat counter intuitive as it focuses movement into manoeuvre corridors as this screenshot shows. The soviet player is choosing not to defend in the bottom right corner as the terrain is so unsuitable. Showing roads as a more visible dark red can be toggled on/off.

Image

Command Preparation Points

We all know that before major offensives or when preparing a deliberate defensive operation the more time that you have to prepare pays dividends. This preparation time is now factored into the game and we call it Command Preparation Points (CPPs). CPPs are gained by units that have remaining strategic movement points at the end of the turn. However those units in a friendly hex that haven’t moved or fought at all will gain the biggest improvement. The more CPPs you have the better the effects. CPPs increase attacking CV, reduce fatigue due to movement and in defence improve the chances of calling in artillery support. However as units move and fight they lose the CPPs they have gained. Going hell for leather is no longer necessarily the best policy. A more considered advance, with units moving in echelon and taking advantage of the administrative movement rules, may be a more sustainable approach; even before logistics are factored in. CPPs are such a game changer in successful operations that we thought an extract from the manual would be of benefit to prove the point:

Image

Assault HQs

Another new feature replicates the focus of the Staff on the operations of specific Armies and Fronts. Players can now designate a number of the high-level HQs as Assault HQs. This increases the command point capacity of the HQ so more units can be attached with no penalties. Subordinate HQs and Units also gain a number of bonuses from Assault HQ status: these include gaining Combat Preparation Points faster, an increased chance to pass support checks and extra artillery ammunition for soviet artillery before 1944. There is however a catch. Units under an Assault HQ can only build to level 1 fortifications.

Combat Delay

Combat Delay was first introduced in WitW. It represents the time consumed in a turn by combat within a hex and which doesn’t immediately impact on those units who did not take place in the attack itself, and therefore saved MPs. Depending on the amount of combat in a hex an extra charge of up to 9 MPs can be charged on a unit that is leaving the hex. This prevents the tactic of using infantry units to clear a hole in the line and then charging through with motorized units who have a full allocation of MPs. The screenshot shows not only the black star that indicates a combat delay but also the new symbols that remind players that movement is generating fatigue (teardrop) and losing CPPs (crossed swords)

Image

Together these four new elements pose the player with a whole new range of challenges, options and trade-offs. How you focus your staff effort and push your units will impact their ability to fight.

In our next post we are going to have a look at the new realistic weather system and the variation that it offers.
John
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brdxman
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by brdxman »

Excellent post! Looking great. I like the idea of combat delay and assault headquarters and preparation points, they all sound great for eastern front warfare and the massive offenses that were used. Roads will be a great add on for the simulation as we all know the muddy roads stopped offensives cold.
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Hanny
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by Hanny »

ORIGINAL: RedLancer


In our next post we are going to have a look at the new realistic weather system and the variation that it offers.

Your just teasing me now with hints of wet dirt roads and dry dirt roads having different effects....
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by Shupov »

Love the new concepts and I'm already thinking of questions!

Will unused CPP's accumulate to the next turn?
Will the Axis start the campaign with maximum CPP's? This seems realistic considering their careful planning.

Can't wait to see how the positive CPP effects balance out against the negative Combat Delay effects. Everyone will be wondering if the first turn Lvov and Extended Lvov pockets are still possible. I for one hope the effects are variable enough so these openings aren't such a sure thing for the Axis. They are so common and standard now that they make the game too predictable and less suspenseful.
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by joelmar »

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Love the new concepts and I'm already thinking of questions!

Will unused CPP's accumulate to the next turn?
Will the Axis start the campaign with maximum CPP's? This seems realistic considering their careful planning.

Can't wait to see how the positive CPP effects balance out against the negative Combat Delay effects. Everyone will be wondering if the first turn Lvov and Extended Lvov pockets are still possible. I for one hope the effects are variable enough so these openings aren't such a sure thing for the Axis. They are so common and standard now that they make the game too predictable and less suspenseful.

I am a beta tester and will answer as I can.

Answers: yes and yes.

I will leave open the bigger question for you to decide when you experience it.

But I can say that IMO even if most of WitE 1 basic principles still hold and the transition is not that hard, WitE 2 is a very different beast and a whole new challenge at many levels. This includes a lot more possibilities for good or bad decisions on both sides. So what you know from WitE 1 or WitW, even if relevant, may be somewhat misleading :-)
"The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you'll know that you're dreamin'" -Dio
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by GloriousRuse »

Regarding CPP, one of the parts I find interesting (and admittedly this might be esoteric) is how while they fundamentally work the same mechanically for both sides (X SMP remaining in Y circumstance always equals Z CPP gain), they actually reflect a lot of the historical operational doctrines and dilemmas.

For the Germans, if you’ve ever read about how their blitzes started off with resounding success, but were creaking along on their last legs six weeks later - well you’ll feel that here. When you start a properly prepared offense, you can go fangs out hair on fire and it seems like nothing can stop you as the panzers flow like lightning. But all too soon your beautiful mobile divisions that just a few weeks ago were invincible and terrifyingly fast are now vulnerable to counterattack, unable to shift well prepared positions, and moving altogether slower. So you start to arrive at the historical German answer/dilemma of whether or not to take a pause to launch a well planned offensive and enjoy those few weeks of glory, knowing that the Russians will use the pause to solidify and prepare, or do you keep pushing on even as your divisions are falling below what you used to think of as a regiment of real combat power...reaching for objectives, or just trying to keep the Russians off balance.

In contrast, the Russians need a certain amount of CPP just to remain viable agains the generally better German divisions, and don’t have the sheer mobility. But their deep battle doctrine really comes in to play. Assuming they can survive the initial shock and ever regain their feet, they can assemble multiple echelons - initial tactical penetrations might be difficult and the first echelons might not make it far, but the second echelon can crack open the battered and retreating Germans and maybe even buy space for the operational maneuver groups to turn a tactical success into a real crisis for the Germans...you really start to grok the how and why this worked.
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by robinsa »

Looks great ! Really looking forward to trying this game !
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Hanny

ORIGINAL: RedLancer


In our next post we are going to have a look at the new realistic weather system and the variation that it offers.

Your just teasing me now with hints of wet dirt roads and dry dirt roads having different effects....

its no accident that a lot of the testers have the road mode on all the time, but especially in the poor weather turns
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by Shupov »

Just curious why a "mode" is needed for roads. Are they not effective all the time? I do understand why a "mode" needed for railroads. Units are traveling by rail or they are not.

Also, is there a consideration for roads becoming congested? It seems like poor quality roads could become overloaded.
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by DrewBlack »

Hi

Good to see we are now able to speak about this excellent project that's its been a pleasure and and honour to be part of.

"No questions a stupid question" so they say.

We will try to assist were we can.

Drew
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by Shupov »

We owe a debt of gratitude to the unheralded developers, product managers and testers who made this project happen.

Thank you!!
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Hanny
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by Hanny »

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Just curious why a "mode" is needed for roads. Are they not effective all the time? I do understand why a "mode" needed for railroads. Units are traveling by rail or they are not.

Also, is there a consideration for roads becoming congested? It seems like poor quality roads could become overloaded.

Just a guess, but it may be taking advantage of how the map is now structured. So roads are a fixed asset in the hex, lets say 3 grades of good/average/poor quality, but it may be using dirt tracks or all weather roads etc, so a city has all weather roads and they extend a short way out of the city before possible turning into a dirt road leading to a small pop center.

But the weather in the hex changes, and in so doing makes the same road asset perform differently, so you get more granulation ( larger matrix of cost per hex depending in weather and terrain and road infrastructure) in movement costs, this would then give you the effects of congestion on the road net as the cost of supply delivery changes due to weather over the same fixed road asset. So rain on a city with all weather roads has x effect, while rain on a dirt road, has y effect.
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Shupov

Just curious why a "mode" is needed for roads. Are they not effective all the time? I do understand why a "mode" needed for railroads. Units are traveling by rail or they are not.

Also, is there a consideration for roads becoming congested? It seems like poor quality roads could become overloaded.

its a map mode,so you can view it as in the screen shot above (where the roads are clear to see) or turn that map mode off and they fade into the background (you can still see them but the map art is much more subdued).

If you are focussed on the northern half the map (ie where most of the poor terrain is) then they become very important to your planning, esp in poor weather. In the Ukraine in summer, their relative value is minimal. Move into Germany and good roads are common.

So its like a lot of the map views, you get your own routine of when you use it and when its not that important (or clutters stuff that you would rather have clear).
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by 821Bobo »

While fighting deep in Soviet union, roads are important and sparse and ability to easy spot them is huge benefit. In Germany basically every hex have good or at least average roads and is not that important to see them but on the other hand the huge road network may act disruptive. Basically map should show what is important, therefore is good you can turn roads on/off.
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by No idea »

It seems the new combat delay will make swarm tactics a very good option (by swarm I mean scattering units all over the place to make the german pay extra MPs for every hex), especially during the first turns, when there is really nothing you can do to stop the germans
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Shupov
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by Shupov »

Thanks, I get it now! Road movement is not a "mode" in the same sense as railroads, but their visibility on the map is controlled by a switch.

Speaking of visibility, I'm hopeful the blizzard and mud overlays are less intrusive. I honestly can't see the terrain during blizzard weather in WitE1. The recently posted WitE2 screenshots appear to take care of that issue.
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by RedLancer »

ORIGINAL: Shupov
Speaking of visibility, I'm hopeful the blizzard and mud overlays are less intrusive. I honestly can't see the terrain during blizzard weather in WitE1. The recently posted WitE2 screenshots appear to take care of that issue.

I promise we'll post more screenshots in the next release when we focus on weather (as Roger and I are both from the UK we have an in built weather fixation).
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by No idea »

By the way, havent you made a face washing to the counters? Old ones are ok, but some mods have made them prettier. I think the new, better looking map, calls for new, better looking counters.
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by governato »

One of the things I loved (and well hated a bit :)) of WITE1 was the omniscient role of the player. We were 5 five stars generals given complete freedom of action from Uncles Joseph and Adolf and we also knew everything about our side down to the last bayonet assigned to the most remote battalion...at the same time when we would make decisions at the small unit level we'd also know everything about the situation on the whole front. This is FUN but also a bit unrealistic. As an example STAVKA did not not know the position of entire ARMIES in July 1941, forget about giving orders to individual divisions or knowing the exact number and morale of their sapper squads...

To my question: are there any changes to the Fog of War and the way the Chain of Command is handled in WITE2 vs WITE to make it more representative of real situations?
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RedLancer
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RE: Showcasing WitE2 #1 - New Ground Combat & Movement Features

Post by RedLancer »

ORIGINAL: No idea

By the way, haven't you made a face washing to the counters? Old ones are ok, but some mods have made them prettier. I think the new, better looking map, calls for new, better looking counters.

I've always thought that counters are like chess pieces - everyone has a favourite set (and between you and I, sometimes I play with my own special set I've created).

Unfortunately WitE and WitW mods won't immediately work with WitE2 as we have added some extra pieces like City Forts. What do you imagine a new, better looking counter set would look like? Of all the art to be modded the counters are one of the easiest. In general WitE2 is the by far the most modable of the series as so much less is hard coded and even the GUI background colour can be adjusted if you choose.
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