Partisan's need to be gone

[Numdydar]

These units need to be removed. At this scale, there were NONE of these units in the real war that could capture, much less control cities, for even one turn. Much less multiple turns.

The two biggest groups, Quantrell's guerrillas and Mosby's raider only had about 300-500 men yet the game can have multiple of these units on the map. In regions where large (if you call 500 men a large unit) groups never operated, Quantrell in MO and KS, Mosby in VA, GA. And not one of these groups EVER took over towns/cities. There were all hit and run. So why are these units in the game?

I had a Partisan unit in Charleston WV for over 6 months (as it kept getting replacements. Again how?) It took me 2 Mountain units, 2-3 brigades and a HQ to finally get rid of it. Since if I did not kill it in one turn it, it went back to full strength. This is NOT the Russian Front in WWII.

Also where is the union militia?

State militia were called out by State governments to preserve order. For instance, during the early summer of 1862 a movement was set on foot by the enemies of the Government having for its object the systematic organization of guerrilla hands throughout the State of Missouri. This movement became so formidable that it was determined by the State authorities to take stringent measures for the suppression of existing disorders. Accordingly Brig. Gen. John M. Schofield, the commander of the Missouri State Militia and also the United States military commander of the District of Missouri, was authorized to organize the entire militia force of the State for the purpose of putting down marauders and defending the peaceable citizens of the State. On July 22, 1862, pursuant to the authority thus conferred upon him, General Schofield issued the following: "An immediate organization of all the militia of Missouri is hereby ordered, for the purpose of exterminating the guerrillas that infest our State. Every able-bodied man capable of bearing arms and subject to military duty is hereby ordered to repair, without delay, to the nearest military post and report for duty to the commanding officer. Every man will bring with him whatever arms he may have or can procure, and a good horse if he has one. All arms and ammunition of whatever kind and wherever found, not in the hands of the loyal militia, will be taken possession of by the latter and used for the public defense. Those who have no arms and can not procure them in the above manner will be supplied as quickly as possible by the ordnance department."

Every state had these. So maybe some kind of MMP cost for the Union to set these up for each border/CSA state once the state capital has been captured?

while the MMP losses from raiders also seems excessive (and again, Union Militia?) and annoying since it seems to happen every turn, at least it is not as obnoxious as the actual units on the board.

Someone on the dev team should have played GMT's American Civil War (it is on Tabletop Simulator) game before deciding on what should be done about partisans.

Yes I know I could place units to prevent them from spawning, etc., but again I should not even have to do that since that is what the Union Militia is supposed to do,

To me the easiest solution is to jut reduce the Union MMP by X and completely remove the whole partisan mechanic from the game. It is completely broken and adds nothing to the game as far as I can tell.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Ha! Knew this thread was gonna get started. Partisans, no.

We need Bushwhackers! Jayhawkers! Nearly impossible to catch, can live off land. Cut rails, supply, ding up cities, burn stuff.

Quantrill, sure. How about Bloody Bill Anderson. Jesse James. The Outlaw Josey Wales!

"We're going North, to set things right."
"Reckon I'll be going with you."

*** when certain leaders die, should be moral boast/decline, respectively.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

We need Bushwhackers! Jayhawkers! Nearly impossible to catch, can live off land. Cut rails, supply, ding up cities, burn stuff.

Check out the properties of the Ranger Units....they can roam with a minimum of 3 supply anywhere they go. Combine that with sacking towns in Yankee territory and moving on...well, the chase is on.

(In beta MP testing, while Union, I was tormented by these on more than one occasion cutting RR lines and general mayhem. Combined with a cavalry brigade, those southern boys were a bloody terror to put down.)

Btw...I like the partisans as they are in game also.

[Bobo2025]

Partisans are not something i like in the game, you can disable them:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8&t=385568

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Partisans are not something i like in the game, you can disable them:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8&t=385568

I forgot to link that as an option...thanks
Btw...in MP, Partisans are on and can't be turned off as an option.

A work around for MP without Partisans is to have one player make a custom campaign with them disabled...send this to his opponent to install, and host that custom campaign on the server. His opponent with the same custom campaign can then join the match and play.

It works as have other changes if both players desire to try something different than the default version of the game. I do this all the time with modders when we are testing something out for MP on the PBEM++ server.

[JWW]

A few thoughts.

First, just like the other SC games with partisans, if you hit the P key you can see where they are going to spawn and put a brigade or even a regiment if you have some remaining there to keep them from spawning. THey become an annoyance. As to the real impact partisans had in different areas and how many troops had to be used to keep them down, I think that may be debatable.

Having said that, I think a better, cleaner solution would be to handle it by event as is done for some other partisan situations rather than with actual partisan units, so I agree with those suggesting that course of action.

Now a related story, if you are bored and having nothing else to do. My great-great-grandfather JMW, was a captain in the Confederate cavalry from Alabama who fought through the entire war in the West, mainly with Wheeler's cavalry and definitely fought in the campaigns in KY and TN.

But back to partisans, in doing some records searches, I found copies of actual documents signed by him for horse forage and other supplies when he spent about three months in 1864 commanding a detachment containing 25-30 horses (don't have a number for the men) "scouting in search of deserters" in north central Alabama, which was where he was from, and which had a very large number of supporters of the Union and which had an organized Union partisan presence. All the forage was received in Jasper, AL, in north central AL, about 25 miles from his home.

One wonders what that duty must have been like, especially since most of his service was with the Confederate armies and not fighting partisans and irregulars and deserters in his home area. Apparently he gained more support than animosity, because in the years after the war he was elected form his home district to serve in the Alabama legislature several times. He also joined the AL branch of the Farmer's Alliance that had progressive ideas for the period. (Note - No political statment implied in that.) And he was known as "the peacemaker" in his county in the years after the war. Though I will note also before the war he was the 'owner' of 2-3 slaves while operating a store and owning a small farm in the AL hill country.

On the other hand, I had relatives who fought for the North during the war, and I am apparently distantly related to Gen. George Meade, who was apparently, ironically, a distant cousin of my great-great-grandfather's wife. His wife, btw, lived to be 104 years old and died in 1924. And I actually knew relatives now dead who remember meeting her as children.

[Bobo2025]

Having said that, I think a better, cleaner solution would be to handle it by event as is done for some other partisan situations rather than with actual partisan units, so I agree with those suggesting that course of action.

the nice thing about turning scripts off is that there are two different types of Partisan events: Units and MPP. The former can be turned off to stop the deployment of units while the latter can be left on to simulate guerrilla attacks on production and infrastructure.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Having said that, I think a better, cleaner solution would be to handle it by event as is done for some other partisan situations rather than with actual partisan units, so I agree with those suggesting that course of action.

the nice thing about turning scripts off is that there are two different types of Partisan events: Units and MPP. The former can be turned off to stop the deployment of units while the latter can be left on to simulate guerrilla attacks on production and infrastructure.

Yes this is something also that could be done for a custom made game for MP if both parties wanted this combo. The requirement is the game file has to be exact...which means one party has to send the custom game (with a unique name and version ID for example) to the other person so the PBEM server recognizes it. It won't work if both parties independently turn on/off the same scripts and then try to host a challenge. The other party won't be able to join....the server won't allow it.

Btw, awesome story about your great great grandfather in Alabama, JWW.

[metabagel]

I don't know how historical this is, but I wonder if it might be fun to do the following:

• Eliminate the fixed spawning locations

• Occasionally spawn regiment level partisan units at somewhat random locations

• Make partisan units always in supply at some fixed level (living off the land)

• Partisan units can take territory and cut supply lines, like regular units

Alternatively, perhaps reduce MPP and supply coming from a city or town which is indicated as having partisan activity and/or unrest. Change of color or other indicator could show this situation. Pacification would require placing any land unit or HQ on the city or town for a set number of turns. And this would happen occasionally and randomly in regions where partisan activity might be likely to occur.

[pascalc]

I think that partisans make much more sense west of the Mississippi, where regular units were relatively small, as well as being few and far between.

[metabagel]

I think that partisans make much more sense west of the Mississippi, where regular units were relatively small, as well as being few and far between.

This makes sense to me. Also, having finally finished a full game of 1861 Blue and Gray, playing as the Union, I do find the partisan mechanic to be annoying. All you need to do is for one turn forget that a unit is performing as a garrison and move it away, and you end up with a partisan in your backfield.

[Numdydar]

Thanks for all the comments.

But no one has explained why there are NO Union Milita in the game. If you are going to allow these random MMP losses and Partisans units to appear, there should be some counter to these. Rather than putting real units in places they should not need to be or turning them off.

I actually had Partisan Units appear within several hexes of the Army of the Potomac in VA. Really? All because I did not have a separate unit on a certain hex? How stupid.

As I pointed out in my OP, these were SMALL scale units. There is no way they could do the things that they can do in the game. Totally ruins the historical flavor of an otherwise really good game.

[Mithrilotter]

I mark all of my partisan garrisoning units as asleep. The white dot lets me know not to move them. In beta, I have requested a different color dot to mark my garrisoning units to distinguish them from actually sleeping units, but I never got a response.

[LoneRunner]

Excellent idea Mithrilotter. I consistently move garrison units by mistake and then I got a partisan unit to deal with. Grrrr.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Another use for sleep mode

[IslandInland]

With a little trial and error I think I have disabled on map partisan units in the 1861 Blue and Gray campaign.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0&t=385991