2 Questions from a Perspective Interested Person

[Munkie]

Long time BattleTech player (did he just say the "B" word?)

And I have been looking for a game that has pilot development as well as squad adminstration... does this offer those?

Also, are you able to create Mech/Titans that mirror their BT counterparts? And if so does anyone have a save file that they have made?

Thanks!

[tarendelcymir]

Originally posted by Munkie
Long time BattleTech player (did he just say the "B" word?)

And I have been looking for a game that has pilot development as well as squad adminstration... does this offer those?

Also, are you able to create Mech/Titans that mirror their BT counterparts? And if so does anyone have a save file that they have made?

Thanks!

Yes, there's quite a bit of pilot development in ToS. When you're playing with a home team, you get experience points in several areas that can be used to increase your pilot's skills. Your pilots also go up in ranks, which allow them to use heavier classes of titans.

You can make titans that fairly closely mirror BT mechs, but there are some differences, mostly because Titans go up to 200tons max, while mechs only go up to 100. The weapons are relatively similar, and the average titan tends have more armor than the average mech, but I've made BT style titans in the past before, and they worked pretty well. I don't have a save file for it anymore, though.

[Voidhawk]

Pilot development?

How about 7 attributes per pilot (intelligence, dexterity, instinct, reaction, neural sense, constitution, and charisma)?

How about 19 individual skills that range from basic piloting and combat to electronic warfare and damage control?

Oh, and 5 races with different strengths and weaknesses. Androids, cyborgs, and replicants, oh my!

2 genders where applicable (no shocker there).

So I'll go out on a limb and say "yes" . Plenty of pilot development going on in ToS. Course, many of them will die a horrible death on the battlefield, but the jocks who survive will become legendary (and they'll have the skills to back the reputation up).

Hm, I used to have a MadCat design a while back with LRM-12's instead of 15's and an AC20 substituted for the MC's AFC100. It was close, but IIRC I had a hard time cramming all that clan gear onto a titan assault chassis. There just wasn't room left over for enough armor to satisfy me.

Titans are similar to mechs only in that they are huge walking armored monsters of ordnance-hurling terror. And by god, that's good enough for me.

[Munkie]

What about the adminstration and management aspect of your lance?

Does the pilots actualy grow as far as experience, and do you have to keep them employed with payment? What aboult salvage for your mechs?

Is the game signle player as well as multi?

How does it compare to Titans One? I just D/L'd it and the seem was ugly as sin?

Tell me more!!!

[LarkinVB]

Originally posted by Munkie

How does it compare to Titans One? I just D/L'd it and the seem was ugly as sin?

Tell me more!!!

Ugly as sin ? Its called retro look and is much nicer than ASCII art.

Yes, there is rank dependant payment for jocks, maintanance for squad titans, salvage as money, repair costs and lots of modifiers from your manager and/or mechanic.

[tarendelcymir]

ToS is also multi-player capable - up to 4 players can compete with teams of up to 8 titans each, in addition to the solo duels against the computer and missions.

And really...while ToS 1.4 may not be as flashy as some commercial games, remember that it's completely free and written by people who did it because they wanted to, not because they were getting paid for it. For a freeware game, it looks pretty darn good, and plays a lot better than most.

[Coyote27]

Originally posted by LarkinVB
Ugly as sin ? Its called retro look and is much nicer than ASCII art.

REMEMBER PONG!!!

Personally, if I want good graphics I'll go buy a DVD player and watch movies. if I want good competitive gameplay, though, graphics are only important to me in the sense that I can tell what's what. Not that I object to eye candy, not at all, but if the game developers spend all their effort on that and not enough on playtesting, balancing, or giving the game depth and replayability, they're better off scrubbing floors for a living instead and saving everyone the disappointment of a broken game.

[Rebel Yell]

Ok, I have been lurking here a while and also have a couple of questions. I've been there and done that for everything BT, tabletop and computer, since it came out, and WS looks like it plays like a miniatures game. That's just what I'm looking for, since MechCommander was never very satisfying.

I have not d/led 1.4 as I didn't want to spend a short time getting used to it, then have to unlearn things, since I am sure WS will have evolutionary, if not revolutionary changes. This forum has given some good insight into the game, and I am excited about the level of customization to equipment and pilots. Now then, since the Matrix website's description is sorely lacking, and so much here seems to deal with duels, I want to know what kind of gaming is available against the AI. I understand that there are built in campaigns, etc, but I guess what I am looking for is the ability to generate what is commonly known as a quick battle. In other words, set the parameters for map, tonnage, numbers, game length, and so on, and either be able to choose your titans/pilots or load your current squad and have the computer choose its own forces. Along that same line, how easy is it to create a campaign?

Also, how long is each turn, and since people often refer to spreading out their shots to keep heat under control, when playing 8 titans (or more? I would love to finally have a game that lets me have a true BT company of 12) how do you manage this? Isn't this a wego format of inputting orders, then the turn plays out? It says turn-based, so surely its not a real-time clickfest. Anyway, thats a start, so thanks in advance for any feedback.

[tarendelcymir]

Originally posted by Rebel Yell

I want to know what kind of gaming is available against the AI. I understand that there are built in campaigns, etc, but I guess what I am looking for is the ability to generate what is commonly known as a quick battle. In other words, set the parameters for map, tonnage, numbers, game length, and so on, and either be able to choose your titans/pilots or load your current squad and have the computer choose its own forces. Along that same line, how easy is it to create a campaign?

Also, how long is each turn, and since people often refer to spreading out their shots to keep heat under control, when playing 8 titans (or more? I would love to finally have a game that lets me have a true BT company of 12) how do you manage this? Isn't this a wego format of inputting orders, then the turn plays out? It says turn-based, so surely its not a real-time clickfest. Anyway, thats a start, so thanks in advance for any feedback.

Everything you mentioned as wanting in a quick battle is available in ToS with the exception of game length. The game always goes on until one side is disabled. You can have random battles in which you set map style, size, percent of different terrains, total tonnage of each team, number of titans for each time, experience level of the AI, and of the human controlled team if you're not playing a current squad (You can do both--play your real squad, or have a random one generated).

As for turn length, it's not really the turn, it's the seconds. Each action (Other than firing a weapon, generally) takes a certain number of seconds to accomplish. For example, to cross one hex, it might take your titan 16 seconds. During that time, if the opponent has also chosen to perform an action that takes longer than 16 seconds, the game timer simply advances until the next person is due to act. You asked about spacing shots to keep heat under control, so what you would do there is fire one shot, then set your attack action to wait on time - maybe 2 or 3 seconds, maybe more. Each second that passes, your heat regulator dissipates heat, so after that specified time, your heat has lowered some. You can also set your attack or move to wait on your heat level, rather than time.

The game is turn based in that you choose an action, then your opponent chooses an action, and the timer advances until the first action is complete, then you choose another. Does that make sense? It sounds vaguely confusing to me now that I've written it.

[rosary]

TOSWS is a battletech fans dream come true. Even if you just like the idea of battletech. TOSWS lets you play with or without a human opponent and its a breeze to clean up afterwards. It really looks beautiful on the computer. There is no comparison to TOSWS's look to TOSv1.4. Tosws looks great.

You can play quick battles. I play them every day. You can play multiplayer or random maps this way. You can also do this with your squad. I would even recommend doing this a few times before tackling the campaigns or missions. TOSWS is very much a squad vs. squad tactical combat game with rpg aspects.

There is a map editor that you can use to make missions or campaigns. It is about as user friendly as most other map editors. If you are used to making maps for other games then you should have little or no problems getting started with it.

The game is time based rather than turn based. When a command is completed you can issue another command. The interface is geared especially for making time based commands and/or breaking them. This is sometimes a source of confusion for new players. If you're constantly changing commands then nothing gets done. If you make a command and stick with it you'll find that your orders are carried out much quicker.

I could talk for hours about TOSWS but this should answer your questions. Did I miss any?

A little gif for you as well.

[Munkie]

Didn't mean to cause a firestorm, or to Troll with the ugly comment. I had no idea of its origin.

I just had issue trying to see the font with the bright colors, and couldn't figure out how to do much.

Guess I should of RTFM...

Anyhow, the TOSws looks great and I will be buying as soon as it is out.

Will the big suppliers... (ie EB, Babbages, GameStop) be carrying this?

[Rebel Yell]

Originally posted by tarendelcymir
Everything you mentioned as wanting in a quick battle is available in ToS with the exception of game length. The game always goes on until one side is disabled. You can have random battles in which you set map style, size, percent of different terrains, total tonnage of each team, number of titans for each time, experience level of the AI, and of the human controlled team if you're not playing a current squad (You can do both--play your real squad, or have a random one generated).

As for turn length, it's not really the turn, it's the seconds. Each action (Other than firing a weapon, generally) takes a certain number of seconds to accomplish. For example, to cross one hex, it might take your titan 16 seconds. During that time, if the opponent has also chosen to perform an action that takes longer than 16 seconds, the game timer simply advances until the next person is due to act. You asked about spacing shots to keep heat under control, so what you would do there is fire one shot, then set your attack action to wait on time - maybe 2 or 3 seconds, maybe more. Each second that passes, your heat regulator dissipates heat, so after that specified time, your heat has lowered some. You can also set your attack or move to wait on your heat level, rather than time.

The game is turn based in that you choose an action, then your opponent chooses an action, and the timer advances until the first action is complete, then you choose another. Does that make sense? It sounds vaguely confusing to me now that I've written it.

Perfect sense, and a great system, I'll be buying WS without a doubt.

[Rebel Yell]

Originally posted by rosary
I could talk for hours about TOSWS but this should answer your questions. Did I miss any?

Got 'em all but whether or not 8 is the maximum number of Titans.

Thanks a bunch to both of you for the excellent explanations.

[tarendelcymir]

Yes, 8 is the maximum number of titans per team. You can, however, set as many teams to human player as you want, so you could control two teams against the AI's two teams, or even 3 on 1. Heck, you could even play all 4 teams as human, like facing yourself at chess or something.

[Voidhawk]

The turn system in ToS is just brilliant, but it can be a little confusing to new players who are used to the standard TBS formula of you move/I move/you move. Turns in ToS are broken down into "slices of time" in which players issue orders for their titans to carry out. Basically, your jocks can perform attack maneuvers (like targeting and firing) and movements (such as running and dodging) and there are seperate sets of commands for each mode. Many commands can be issued and carried out simultaneously (like rotating the torso while scanning an enemy or firing while running).

In addition, there is a "Wait On..." function for each command menu that tells the jock to finish a movement or action before initiating a new one. For example, running while you're firing is generally a bad practice as it greatly diminishes your odds of scoring a successful hit. In this case, you might want to tell your jock to "Wait On Move" before he fires so that he'll finish his run before he opens up with his guns. Or if his titan is overheating, you might want to tell him to wait until his heat level has dropped to an acceptable level before he fires another high heat-output energy weapon. In an intense fight, most of the waiting your jocks do will be waiting for their weapons to recycle (reload) so they can fire again.

You can manually interrupt orders that you've given, but you have to be careful of the consequences in some cases. Let's say for example, your recon titan is running at full speed across a plain looking for enemies. He suddenly spots a well-armed assault coming over a nearby hill and decides (wisely so) that he doesn't want to be running in that direction anymore. You have two options at this point: Wait until the run is finished so you can turn around and run the other way, or interrupt the run order right then and there to hopefully deny the assault those few extra seconds he might need to obtain a lock on you. Ah, but the tricky part is that interrupting a run will cause a skill check on the jock piloting it. If his skill in piloting recon titans isn't so hot (he fails the skill check), he'll trip over his own legs and perform a maneuver I like to call the "rookie faceplant" instead. So is the risk worth it? Your decision. This is just an example, there are all sorts of other nifty interactions to be discovered and tactical decisions to be made.

But all of these things become mostly transparent to the player once you get the hang of it, and it doesn't take long with a little effort. Look at it as developing your own "neural sense".

One of my favorite PC games of all time is Missionforce: Cyberstorm, and it's hard for me to go back to playing it after my experience with ToS. M:C's turn system just seems so dry and unrealistic in comparison. They're both still awesome games, but ToS ranks higher on my list, mainly because of it's interface.

(erm, the posters above me did a great job of explaining all this already, but I'm just in the mood to talk about ToS. so shoot me. )

[TitanFodder]

Originally posted by LarkinVB
Ugly as sin ? Its called retro look and is much nicer than ASCII art.

BAM! In your face!

It's true that any young whipper snapper is going to complain about the ugly graphics of ToS. But a game that has so much playability and replayability(are those real words??) and is so finely tuned and so balanced and obviously made with a lot of love and effort, can afford to look shabby. I'd tolerate far worse graphics just to get a gem like ToS.

And again it's free, so placing emphasys(now this IS a word,right?) on mechanics instead of graphics was the right thing to do.


PS - I once had a ZX Spectrum and i played it to pieces. The greaphics were far worse. But some games are probably better than some titles of today. No, i'm not saying that cos i'm nostalgic. When i read a review of ToS at GameHippo it reminded me of a game on the Speccy and i thought it would be similar. ToS turned out to be better! (For those who must know this, the game in question was Nether Earth and i'll give a big hug to anyone that remembers it.)

georg

[Thorgrim]

Originally posted by tarendelcymir
Yes, 8 is the maximum number of titans per team. You can, however, set as many teams to human player as you want, so you could control two teams against the AI's two teams, or even 3 on 1. Heck, you could even play all 4 teams as human, like facing yourself at chess or something.

Not really true, you cannot have 3:1 games. Teams 1&3 are ALWAYS allied against 2&4. A titan from team 1 cannot lock onto a titan from team 3, so no 3:1 games.
One thing you can do, however, is if you want greater challenges, split one of your custom teams into teams 1&3 and play against *16* AI titans (teams 2&4)! If this sounds insane, it's not.
You can customize just about everything in WS, team weight and number of titans, weight ratio between sides A (teams 1&3) and B (teams 2&4), jocks' average rank, type and characteristics of the battlefield,...

Cyberstorm, that was a cool game. Still have it somewhere.

[LarkinVB]

Originally posted by TitanFodder
But a game that has so much playability and replayability(are those real words??) and is so finely tuned and so balanced and obviously made with a lot of love and effort, can afford to look shabby. I'd tolerate far worse graphics just to get a gem like ToS.

Only players which really tried to delve into TOS can appreciate that it is tuned and balanced over a long period of time which much player input. That is even more true for WS. We took the more than solid base we had already and carefully added stuff, improved the interface and handling, tweaked rules and enhanced playabiltity. I can proudly say that TOS: WS is rock solid in game play on initial release. No need to wait for a patch for balanced gameplay, no feeling that you are an inofficial beta tester.

Some cornerstones :

1. Much better AI. It will have asuperior pathfinding, can lay smoke screens and will have a better overall performance. TOS veterans will still beat it on equal ranks but you can adjust rank/tonnage to your liking.
2. The interface will have lots of small to medium improvements like auto move, intelligent cursors, hex info while hovering over a hex and more.
3. Random battles are still there, now you also get 3 campaigns, some single player missions and even more multiplayer maps. Campaigns/missions will have pre definded AI behavior which will force you to attack sometimes instead of just getting the best position and waiting for the AI to attack. There are also events which might surprise you .....
4. Sweet hard music from Crownd !
5. Beautifull pseudo 3D landscapes, old unflexible TOS grognards can still select 2D.
6. Marc Schwanebeck and his grafix crew redid all grafics, from interface to titans and animations. It looks nice, it plays nice.
7. The factory will allow to im/export single titan designs to share with your friends.
8. Network code was improved to speed up gameplay and decrease lag.
9. Improved squad handling. you can allocate any HQ squad to a battle team, you can splitt you squad to two battle teams.
10. You can enable/disable fog of war with the battle interface.
11. Improved squad management. Your leaders rank will determine what titans you can buy. Your mechanics skill will determine how much titans your squad can own.
12. Skill/development improvements. High skills/attributes are much harder to pay for. There are 10 ranks now. No interest in leadership/charisma/business for all of your jocks ? WS might show you some benifits. Leadership will influence your bravery in battles, giving you small skill benefits on ALL skills or at least no penalties. High charisma will reduce the limits for advancing in rank. Business will reduce your jocks salary.
13. Hmm ...13... bad omen, I will stop here. Be sure thats not all.

I will tell you this : We would NEVER had choosen to release TOS: WS as a commercial game if it wouldn't be far superior in every aspect to TOS. And every TOS veteran with some insight in Vicios Byte/Matrixgames commitment will know that you won't have to wait very long in case there is anything to improve.

[LarkinVB]

14. You can toggle fullscreen/windowed display without selecting a different executable. Very helpfull when you are playing netgames and you are using any messanger application.
15. Improved ingame chat support.

[tarendelcymir]

Originally posted by Thorgrim
Not really true, you cannot have 3:1 games. Teams 1&3 are ALWAYS allied against 2&4. A titan from team 1 cannot lock onto a titan from team 3, so no 3:1 games.
One thing you can do, however, is if you want greater challenges, split one of your custom teams into teams 1&3 and play against *16* AI titans (teams 2&4)! If this sounds insane, it's not.
You can customize just about everything in WS, team weight and number of titans, weight ratio between sides A (teams 1&3) and B (teams 2&4), jocks' average rank, type and characteristics of the battlefield,...

Cyberstorm, that was a cool game. Still have it somewhere.

Duh, you're right. I wasn't thinking. You could also set your human team to team 2, and let 1&3 be AI, then you could face two enemy teams without splitting yours up.

You know, though, that would be something cool to think about adding. When your jocks get really good, even playing two computer teams isn't enough. Imagine 8 titans facing 24. Now that would be one hell of a fight. It would take some serious tactics to pull that one off.