1.03 TOE Errata

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:49 am

Order for 43 Division nA was issued in August 1943, not October.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

The 3 gun batteries of the divisional Artillery persist, no nA KSTN reflects this.

I've covered this before but the mid war downgrading to 3 gun batteries was a reaction to the heavy gun losses in Winter 41 and then again Stalingrad. The production system already reflects if production can't keep up with losses.

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:49 pm

The Infantry KG's TOE 522 to 525 all have full artillery regiments, this seems unbalanced compared to the rest of the equipment.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/9

Full TOE of Festung Lötzen from September 1944, since I see you are adding Fortress units.

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:26 pm

The 44 Panzer Divisions in game have about 14800+ men, the authorized strength was 14013.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

Probably need to reduce the support squads a bit.

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:21 pm

Center Cavalry Regiment should upgrade to 3th Cavalry Brigade and then Division. Edit, my bad, I see the rename to Brigade in the new editor, but not the one to Division?

North and South should consolidate to 4th Cavalry Brigade and then Division.

The 3rd Cavalry Brigade at least had a 3 Company Stug + 1 Company 3.7cm Flak PanzerJäger Abt by December 1944. Edit, my bad, I see the rename to Brigade in the new editor, but not the one to Division?

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7
second to last entry.

The above list shows that only some Fallschirmjäger and Gebirgsjäger Divisions have only towed AT guns in their PanzerJäger Abt. I suggest giving all the Infantry and VG a standard 12 towed AT, 14 SPG, 12 AA PanzerJäger Abt (the Gebirgsjäger and Fallschirmjäger seem mixed) and let the production system do it's magic. The AA company seems to be the most varied, with many having towed instead of SP guns and a mix of 20mm or 37mm guns.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

As the above KSTN (page 115-120) and the first list I posted shows, the 10 and 14 organisation was concurrent and the production system can account for this already.

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:01 pm

The Bicycle Recon Squad 43 should have 8 instead of 9 men. EDIT: Wrong. As below, 9 is correct, it seems Luftwaffe used different organisation.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

Luftwaffe Feld Division from February 1944.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

Fusilier Bicycle Company

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:56 pm

163. Infantery Division per 16.06.1941

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

notable differences is it being fully equipt with 50mm Pak38 aside from the 2nd company of the Panzerjäger Abteilungs mix of 25mm AA and English 2 pdr.

Also it lacks it's heavy IG's and also is missing some of it's light IG.

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:20 pm

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

April 1943 order from 106 Infantry Division about introduction of Rifle Grenades and the phasing out of the 50mm Mortars. For interests sake.

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:20 pm

106 Infantry Division (12. Welle) 1.August 1943 KSTN

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

and even better, Division weapon totals

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

Game TOE in comparison:

missing a lot of Gewehr 41, MP and LMG, even compared to the 43 Rifle Squads. The LMG and MP are probably scattered among the various HQ and supply elements, but the GW41 should be with the Infantry. Same with Scopes.

a lot of heavy PaK are missing as are the 2cm Flak

the AT rifles are already phased out

as often read about, the 12cm mortars are already in service.

Edit: as posted below. The MG groups should include an MP.

on the scopes, per this report from a Regiment of the 106. Infantry Division from how it organised its squads, there were 2 scopes per squad.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:54 pm

As detailed as can be KSTN breakdown of an Infantry Regiment from April 43, though the listed KSTN's for the component units vary from November 1941 to April 1942.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

pages 315-322

detailed KSTN for Panzergrenadier Regiment (gp) from August 1942

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6
pages 208-218

Panzergrenadier Regiment 146 in October 1943

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:12 pm

355. Infantry Division on 14. June 1943 when sent to the East.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

The PaK should be all 7.5cm.

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:26 pm

Skijäger Battalion from October 1942, since one is in the TOE list.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

pages 239-240

Denniss · Post by **Denniss** » Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:13 pm

The 106th Infantry div was in Kursk so this may be a rather special/strengthened OB like an additional SP flak company attached.
Granatbüchse 39 is the former Panzerbüchse 39 AT-Rifle modified to fire Rifle Grenades

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:37 am

Denniss wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:13 pm The 106th Infantry div was in Kursk so this may be a rather special/strengthened OB like an additional SP flak company attached.
Granatbüchse 39 is the former Panzerbüchse 39 AT-Rifle modified to fire Rifle Grenades

The SP Flak is integral part of the PzJ Abt. If it was attached it would be marked as such.
f.e. annotation where it is noted towed PaK is due to StuG Bttr not yet assigned
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

A new SP HeeresFlak company KSTN Nr.192 was introduced in June 1943.
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

F.e. in the KSTN list of 73. Infantry Division, the Nr.198 (9 towed 3.7) is showen as being from November 1944, but at least until April 1944, it had the SP Flat Nr.192.
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

While in the list from March 1944, the SP Company is still showen.
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

45. Infantry Division from IMO beginning 1945. Stamp says January 1944 but orgnaisation is clearly late 44 from Sturmzüge, Panzershreck, Artillery etc. so should probably read January 1945.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

Seems TOE should be switched to 475, but the infantry numbers look much stronger than what's in the game TOE.

And this is news to me, even after all these years, the Infantry Regimental Pioneer Platoon always consisted of 6 squads, Regimental KSTN from February 1942, however there were only 3 LMG's until nA when all squads received one. Pioneer numbers probably need to be bumped in the pre nA TOE's.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/4
nA

1943 Pioneer Squad should have 11 Men.
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:47 am

The Sturm Squad, Sturm Squad (-) etc. don't depict the November 1944 KSTN.

A company had

6 Gewehr 41 with scopes
9 Rifle Grenade launchers
9 LMG (1 of which was in Reserve)
55 Stg44
10 MP

The Squads are de facto at least 9 men strong, if one includes the Rifle Grenade men from the platoon Command element into the Squad. If one ads the 6 company level snipers, arguably 10.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7
https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

My suggestion is counting this at company level which approximates 9

10 man Squads with

6 Stgw 44
1 LMG
1 Rifle Grenade
1 Gewehr41
1 MP (MG crew had them)
1 Panzerfaust
1 Handgrenade

The other possibility is to make 4 x 9 man Sturm Squads (including the Rifle Grenades)

8 Stg44
1 RG
1 Panzerfaust
1 Handgrenade

and 5x 10 man Support/MG/Sniper Squad (8 + RG + Gewehr 41)

1 or 2 MG (neither would give correct total)
3 or 4 Kar98k
2 MP
1 Gewehr 41
1 Rifle Grenade
1 Panzerfaust
1 Handgrenade

Wiedrock · Post by **Wiedrock** » Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:05 am

MechFO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:47 am The Squads are de facto at least 9 men strong, if one includes the Rifle Grenade men from the platoon Command element into the Squad. If one ads the 6 company level snipers, arguably 10.

The Devs decided to mostly give the basic squads, no staff, no HQ, no leadership. For some Squads they don't even have the Squad leader included (HMGs).
That's why there are no Snipers and Combat Element Manpower is around 25%-35% (if even that) or so, instead of about 50% (higly depends/varies on TOE/time period).
https://panzerworld.com/german-unit-str ... efinitions

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:30 pm

Wiedrock wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:05 am
MechFO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:47 am The Squads are de facto at least 9 men strong, if one includes the Rifle Grenade men from the platoon Command element into the Squad. If one ads the 6 company level snipers, arguably 10.
The Devs decided to mostly give the basic squads, no staff, no HQ, no leadership. For some Squads they don't even have the Squad leader included (HMGs).
That's why there are no Snipers and Combat Element Manpower is around 25%-35% (if even that) or so, instead of about 50% (higly depends/varies on TOE/time period).
https://panzerworld.com/german-unit-str ... efinitions

The cleanest solution would be to create a Rifle Grenade squad (-), analogues to the AT rifles and the 50mm mortars. I dismissed this due to slot limitations. This is not the same as the various staff, runners, signals etc.

Wiedrock · Post by **Wiedrock** » Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:21 am

MechFO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:47 am 9 LMG (1 of which was in Reserve)

2 were Reserve (1x 1st Platoon + 1x 2nd Platoon)

MechFO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:30 pm The cleanest solution would be to create a Rifle Grenade squad (-), analogues to the AT rifles and the 50mm mortars. I dismissed this due to slot limitations. This is not the same as the various staff, runners, signals etc.

Maybe this helps. Those should be all OBs using those 2 types of Assault Squads. Each Squad 8 Men each. Not sure where you see slot limitations (all those TOEs have plenty of their 32 slots still available).

: Sturm-Squads.png (958.88 KiB) Viewed 1110 times

In some TOEs they use Rifle Squad 43, which are good to represent the "3.Zug" (3rd Platoon of the Company) not sure if is done intentional this way, I don't feel like counting TOE/Division numbers.
This one actually also somewhat represents the 2xPlatoon runners+1xLeader ("Führung von vorne."), and also includes a semiautomatic Rifle (sniper of Company), so only 3 Snipers of the Company are missing.
Also missing are the Rifle Grenades of the 1st and 2nd Platoon and the Leader+Runners of those two Platoons (not sure if the latter two are represented by an additional Squad in the TOEs, but I doubt so).
Maybe this helps you or the Devs. To possibly one day leave the modern spheres of 10-20% Combat personell and go back to WW2 numbers.

: Sturm_KSTN.png (2.4 MiB) Viewed 1110 times

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:17 pm

Wiedrock wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:21 am
MechFO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:47 am 9 LMG (1 of which was in Reserve)
2 were Reserve (1x 1st Platoon + 1x 2nd Platoon)

MechFO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:30 pm The cleanest solution would be to create a Rifle Grenade squad (-), analogues to the AT rifles and the 50mm mortars. I dismissed this due to slot limitations. This is not the same as the various staff, runners, signals etc.
Maybe this helps. Those should be all OBs using those 2 types of Assault Squads. Each Squad 8 Men each. Not sure where you see slot limitations (all those TOEs have plenty of their 32 slots still available).
Sturm-Squads.png

The second would indeed be the 3rd squad of the two Sturmzugs, but doesn't show up in any of the Infantry/VG TOE's.

Yes, slot restrictions only apply to Panzer/Panzergrenadier units.

Each company having 4 Sturmsq (-) - 2 Sturmsq - 3 Riflesq split gives for a 21 company division (6 Grenadier Btl + Fusilier Btl)

84 Sturm (-)
42 Sturm
63 Rifle

In some TOEs they use Rifle Squad 43, which are good to represent the "3.Zug" (3rd Platoon of the Company) not sure if is done intentional this way, I don't feel like counting TOE/Division numbers.
This one actually also somewhat represents the 2xPlatoon runners+1xLeader ("Führung von vorne."), and also includes a semiautomatic Rifle (sniper of Company), so only 3 Snipers of the Company are missing.
Also missing are the Rifle Grenades of the 1st and 2nd Platoon and the Leader+Runners of those two Platoons (not sure if the latter two are represented by an additional Squad in the TOEs, but I doubt so).
Maybe this helps you or the Devs. To possibly one day leave the modern spheres of 10-20% Combat personell and go back to WW2 numbers.
Sturm_KSTN.png

I think keeping stuff like runners and platoon leader out is the right thing to do. Too many edge cases otherwise.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

January 45 is too late for Sturm Squads in the non VG Infantry units, and the very late PanzerGren and MotInf units have no MP44 at all.

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:38 pm

MechFO · Post by **MechFO** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:14 am

1.11.1941 KSTN for Panzer Hvy MG Section

should be 10 men (as normaly driver is not counted),
2 MP,
4 Pistols
4 Rifles
2 MMG
1 AAMG

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

1.11.1941 KSTN for MG group of Mot Inf

six men
1 MP
2 Pistols
3 Rifles

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

The 50mm PAK 38 as well as the 75mm PAK40/ 97/38 and 7.62 PAK36 had 7(EDIT:8 including ammo carrier, which from the graphical representations seems to be the case, the Name "Munitionsschützen" also supports this) man crews and integral light MG. The 37mm platoons had a light MG at Platoon level, this extended to every gun receiving one from 50mm upwards.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

KSTN for 75mm or 76mm PAK from 1.12.1941

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

Freie Gliederung KSTN from mid 1944

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/4

PzB41 should have 5 men.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

Both 75mm and 150mm IG should have 7 men. Still the same in 1944.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7

1.03 TOE Errata

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