Kerch

[tyronec]

It has become common practice for the Soviets to build a city fort in Kerch. If they then fill it with enough units it becomes impregnable until Axis can advance down from Rostov to the Taman peninsula and cut it off.
The likes of Odessa, Sevastapol, Rostov, Kiev, Moscow, Lenningrad, Stalingrad,... can more easily be isolated either by Naval Patrol or by being surrounded on the land, which makes Kerch maybe the hardest hex on the map to take ahead of historical.
I can see some reason for having it that way, just wonder is that what is intended ?

[Joel Billings]

I think it just sort of worked out that way and it's too hard to make changes. I know we discussed it heavily, I think around 2 years ago, and can't remember what changes were made at the time (it came up when dealing with some of the Steel Inferno scenarios). Whatever we did or didn't do, that's the way it's very likely going to remain. If the idea of eliminating the ability to build a city fort in the Kerch strait (or maybe just for the Soviet player) is something in demand, we could look to see if it would be easy/safe to totally restrict that. But any change made would have to be something very simple to find in the code and change. It would also have to be easy to test to make sure it's working correctly and didn't break something else.

[ncc1701e]

Are you performing Ground Attack against the Ferry hex between Kerch and the Taman peninsula?

According to the manual:

Ferry attacks will increase the cost of using ferry hexes and inflict losses on ground units and freight using those hexes.

If supplies can't pass, the city fort may be in jeopardy.

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Kerch.JPG (65.72 KiB) Viewed 272 times

[Wiedrock]

Imo all the Kerch situation shows is that Isolation in this game is way too strong.

[ncc1701e]

Well precisely, this is the point. Are the units in Kerch considered isolated with the ferry hex behind?

The manual is not clear on this subject. It says that "players may ... trace supply paths over ferry hexes if they control the hex by holding the ground hexes on either side".

But it does not precise the quantity that can pass. What is the detailed rule here?

What would be interesting to see is the logistics of the Soviet units in Kerch if the Axis is performing ground attacks on the ferry hex and naval interdictions at the same time.

[ncc1701e]

Also, is the weather a factor here due to 8.5.4. Supply when Lake Ladoga and the Sea of Azov are frozen?

[tyronec]

Thanks Joel, fair enough.

Well precisely, this is the point. Are the units in Kerch considered isolated with the ferry hex behind?

As I understand it you cannot cause isolation by interdicting a ferry hex. Reducing supplies is not going to do the job.
The critical factor to taking a well defended hex (a city fort or an urban hex) is isolation, without that prospects are poor against a well prepared opponent.

[ncc1701e]

I have found an old thread related:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8#p4849688

Remember there is a specialist GA-ferry mission for this, conventional interdiction or naval patrol doesn't really help.

Ground Attack against the ferry hex seems to be the way to go. Will it isolate the units in Kerch? I don't know. May be Joel can give an answer?

[Von Manstein777]

This is very interesting. In a Crimea-related observation, is the Soviet player's supply to the Crimea unaffected when the overland rail lines from the North are cut? From a 1941 CG I'm currently playing, they don't seem to be. IMO supply should be heavily reduced due to having to having no continuous rail line and relying solely on the bottleneck of the ferry crossing at Kerch.

[tyronec]

I haven't tested this, which would require playing it from both sides and looking at where the supplies come from that are going to Kerch.

My understanding is they would be able to get supply from two sources, naval supply to the port (which could be interdicted by naval Patrol) and 'land' supply across the ferry hex from Tamanskaya which could only be cut by taking the Taman peninsula.

[ncc1701e]

The only question that needs to be answered is the formula giving the amount of supplies that can go through a ferry hex.

[tyronec]

The only question that needs to be answered is the formula giving the amount of supplies that can go through a ferry hex.

There are no restrictions in the game on supplies going through a hex, though the MPs to cross it will have an impact.

[Jango32]

The manual is wrong. You cannot do anything to isolate ferry hexes with naval interdiction points. Kerch is the single hardest hex to take in the entire game until the Axis player drives all the way from Rostov to the south.

Kerch is within 3 hexes of a depot connected to the rail via the Taman peninsula. The rail to the west of Kerch is insignificant for supplying it.

isolation.png (498.27 KiB) Viewed 119 times

[Von Manstein777]

It seems like the whole point of Naval Interdiction WOULD BE to interdict a place like the Kerch Straits...

[Von Manstein777]

Also, the MP differential for Supply across appears to be too low (It seems like there is no loss of Soviet Supply to large number of units in the Crimea even when sole-sourced via the Ferry). This would be compounded if there is no effective way to perform Naval Interdiction. Continuous Rail vs. Rail Yard/Offload -Transport to Ferry-Load and Ship Ferry-Offload Ferry-Reload Rail. The effect of Supply in the Crimea when the overland rail gets cut off should be huge!