Spying and intelligence

[DavidDailey]

The U S, U S S R and Japan do not begin the game with spying and intelligence being pursued. If they do not invest in this won't they have a tremendous disadvantage when pursuing upgrades,due to the limited chance of breakthroughs? Would an early investment in spying and intelligence give them a chance to even things up? Also, would this serve a counterintelligence function and keep their nosey adversaries from spotting units, including ones planning surprises?

[Umeu]

The U S, U S S R and Japan do not begin the game with spying and intelligence being pursued. If they do not invest in this won't they have a tremendous disadvantage when pursuing upgrades,due to the limited chance of breakthroughs? Would an early investment in spying and intelligence give them a chance to even things up? Also, would this serve a counterintelligence function and keep their nosey adversaries from spotting units, including ones planning surprises?

I've experimented with Japan doing S&I, but I've found that it doesn't make sense because Japan only needs certain key techs, most of which should be finalized by the time that Japan declares war on US in 41. After this DoW, Japan is usually very tight on cash, and almost everything is needed to keep the fight going. They can only afford and need a few more tech upgrades. I would maybe rather get mobility then, so all the SNLF are upgraded when they spawn. This can be really nice when attacking India or the US. As well as for advancing into Russia.

The same is true to a lesser extent for Russia, though somewhat reversed. Russia is tight on cash before German declares war, though after that they still need most MPP just to keep their armies alive. I'm usually on a very tight path with research for Russia, so squeezing in S&I means I can't research something else like C&C which imo is more important.

Both of them don't have other S&I competitors until they are at war, so it's not really necessary to get a bonus which you later can't really use much because you're not researching enough.

For the US it's a must imo because they usually invest the most of all powers in tech, and they can keep teching up even while fighting. And, they are neutral for quite a long time, so it benefits them more than any other country.

the UK kinda depends on your play style, but the main reason for the UK to do it is to frustrate and slow down Germany rather than to speed up their own. That said, if UK goes for a tech heavy route, they also often need and can afford a wide variety of techs. And because of their role as the biggest navy, spotting is quite useful as well.

[DavidDailey]

Thank you. Excellent points. For Russia, it is especially agonizing to be behind Germany, infantry weapons (for a little while), but especially tanks, anti tank and anti aircraft.

[petedalby]

Personally I think S&I is essential for Germany & the USA. For everyone else it's a luxury they can't afford as they have so many other competing priorities.

[Bavre]

Yes, pretty much that. It is a must for one country of each side to rush, but after that it has strongly diminishing returns, as the highest S&I of each side counters ALL S&I of the other afaik.