Who iz nocking on ze door?

[Belisarius]

OK, this might have been handled earlier, but I'll ask anyways:

When you have infantry squads inside buildings, what effect does a total collapse of said building have on the troops?

Background:
I recently played Soviets vs Germans, and had big trouble getting rid of GE Rifle squads inside houses that I had pounded to rubble with arty and tanks. As a fact, they were almost impossible to hit with a tank after the collapse at a distance of ONE hex. Now, there's plenty of stuff to take cover behind in a ruin, but they were INSIDE it when the roof came crushing down... not to mention that they've been hit by FA the moment before.

[Paul Vebber]

You never really know what troops are inside or outside, and since there are no floors, etc. There is a small chance you will take a few casualtyies, but all it generally does is turn the hex from a building hex to a rubble hex.

[troopie]

Originally posted by Belisarius:
OK, this might have been handled earlier, but I'll ask anyways:

When you have infantry squads inside buildings, what effect does a total collapse of said building have on the troops?

Background:
I recently played Soviets vs Germans, and had big trouble getting rid of GE Rifle squads inside houses that I had pounded to rubble with arty and tanks. As a fact, they were almost impossible to hit with a tank after the collapse at a distance of ONE hex. Now, there's plenty of stuff to take cover behind in a ruin, but they were INSIDE it when the roof came crushing down... not to mention that they've been hit by FA the moment before.

It also adds suppression. Usually about five to ten points.

troopie

[McGib]

I have seen (very rare) where a whole squad is taken out when a building collapses. Hmm IIRC I think it was my squad too

[Bing]

I think if a two or three story structure collapsed on me, the chances are I would be suppressed. Or at the very least feeling a little down.

Bing

[Alexandra]

I've seen units take casualities when a building rubbles, though not nearly often enough. I guess Paul's answer also covers why units can fire from a burning building and rarely even take suppression.

However, I disagree with it's logic. Here's why.

Troops are trained to take cover, correct? And to seek the best possible cover. So, wouldn't it make sense that a squad in a 'building hex' is, more often than not, in the building? After all, if I recall correctly, ASL uses the same hex size as SP:WAW and it assumes, unless the player says otherwise in the movement phase that the unit in a building hex is in the building. Also, I'd assume that SP:WAW gives cover bonuses for buildings, and, if it does, then we have the assumption, once more, that the virtual men are seeking the cover of the building.

I'm not saying that *all* building collpses or firey buildings should cause casualties. However, more should, especially in multi hex building hexes that are solely building with no other form of terrain in the hex.

Alex

[Flashfyre]

In most cases, a "building collapse" in a single-hex building causes supression, and possibly one or two casualties. But that same collapse in a hex of a multi-hex building many times will result in the unit being destroyed. I personally have seen this in a scenario with a GE 20mm AA gun emplaced in a multihex building. No casualties to the gun after spotting it; called a 155mm bombardment on the hex; building hex of the gun hit and rubbled; message in box says "20mm AA Gun DESTROYED". Have also seen this happen to entire squads when a multihex building collapses.

"Artillery. When you care enough to send the very best."

[Mikimoto]

Hello.
Last night battle I had a FJ platoon "in cover" in some building hexes (1 hex buildings). One enemy artillery barrage (yugoslav mortars) destroyed three buildings with troops inside. First squad lost 8 men , the second 1 man and the third, no casualties . Bad Luck of Good Luck?

[Panther]

We also assume that the building collapse is a total colapse like you see on TV. But in reality many shells are needed to colapse a building and maybe you olny see a partial colapse of a section of a building when no troops die and when alot die the building colapse was of greater magnitude.

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by McGib:
I have seen (very rare) where a whole squad is taken out when a building collapses. Hmm IIRC I think it was my squad too

Did you use an engineer squad with satchel charge?
Recalling a battle where I had an engineer squad and enemy in same hex (stone building) and hit "F" key too quick.
Building collapsed, enemy vanished....engineers vanished!

_________
Harry