AI off-map artillery

[Stvitus2002]

It seems like the AI's off map artillery never runs out of ammo.
The Russkies start firing their 122MM FH on turn 2, and continues
to fire just about every other turn 'till the end of the scenario.
Human player's artillery has a HE limit, does the AI's?





Joe D.

[KNomad]

Human player's artillery has a HE limit, does the AI's?

Most definately. Click on the "information icon" in the offboard artillery screen to see a units information - including how much ammo it has.

Since you mentioned playing a scenario - it is very likely the author added extra ammo to that unit (for this scenario) so that it could fire throughout the game.

[robot]

Knomad Im somewhat confused here. How do you see how much ammo the ai has. The only information i can get on the ai force is when i click on the troop icon. Even there it doesnt tell me any thing about how much ammo thay have. Where is this off board icon for the ai located.

[KNomad]

Sorry for the confusion ... AFAIK - you can only check the information on your own forces.

[baevans99]

After the battle you can try starting the scenario from the other side - quick check the AI ammo levels. This will wreck any surprises the AI might spring upon you, but I assume since you completed the battle you either stumbled into the surprise or somehow avoided it. [:)]

[KG Erwin]

One thing I have found out--once you kill the AI units that have spotted you, the AI off-board arty loses accuracy, and may start killing its own forces with short "friendly fire". I've seen this happen.

[Stvitus2002]

It's not an individual scenario, but the long ww2 campaign.
Seems like the AI picks the same basic forces for the battles:
At least 2, maybe 3 122MM FH OBA. This is in addition to a half
dozen 82MM & 120MM on-map mortars. It adds up to a lot of craters . My troops need to constantly shift positions to avoid the artillery fire. Assaults are the worst: My engineers are out in the open trying to clear a lane thru the minefields. Still ,i manage to do alright. Campaign score of 58 thru March
1944.






Joe D.

[KNomad]

Ahh ... the good 'ol long WWII campaign ....

Two or three 120mm OBA's should be able to maintain
the amount of fire you decribe easily, even though you
haven't mentioned how long your battles typically actually are.

Again, unless editted, the AI works with the same ammo loadouts
as a human player would. The only advantage the AI has is access to
"AI only" formations when selecting it's forces.

[Stvitus2002]

Two or three 120mm OBA's should be able to maintain
the amount of fire you decribe easily, even though you
haven't mentioned how long your battles typically actually are.

On average, each battle is about 30 turns. Counter-battery fire does not seem to help. Oh well...i'll just have to deal with it. Thanks for the replies.












Joe D.

[robot]

I have been doin the long campaign for years. Counter battery fire is a joke as far as im concerned. Like you i believe the AI has acess to at least 2 ammo dumps with his off board. Even trying to conserve ammo my 150 oba runs out by the 18th turn or there abouts. Where the ai has 122 and 100 ammo all the way up to the turn of 30 with what seems no conservation what so ever. That is hitting me ewvery turn from the 3 or 4th turn. Right now i have been subjected to a heck of a bombardment by 100 mm artty from the first turn on. With no slacking at all. This will go on up to the near 30 turns and maybe past that as well.

[KNomad]

Thanks for sharing Robot, but do you really believe there
is a hardcoded advantage for offboard AI artillery?

You would see ammo dumps at the end of the battle if there were any.

Perhaps because I play on a much smaller scale (1-2k points),
I do not endure the poundings you describe.

Again - nice to have you back Robot! [8D]

[robot]

No Knomad I realy dont believe its hard coded. I dont really know what I believe. It just seems to me they have more ammo then i do. In the german assault that i am into right now. I know onr thing they have spent an awful lot for 100mm. The bombardment has went on from the second turn up to the 13 turn. And it goes on for at least 7 minutes with fast artty off each and every turn in between. It is chewing my companys up with at least 100 deaths so far to all 3 of them. Either they have more ammo or the game doesnt count all there explosions. This is the way it seems to me may not be true. Colud be its just too much dern noise for my ears and gets on my nerves.[:D]

[KNomad]

And it goes on for at least 7 minutes with fast artty off each and every turn in between.

OMG! 7+ Minutes?!

It took me quite awhile to break my addicition to watching the shells fall.
Now, I don't think I can go back to Fast Artillery Off. [:D]

[baevans99]

I took a look at the Encyclopedia and there are some differences between Russian arty and German arty that might explain why the Russians are able to fire longer than the Germans. (I am assuming you were comparing your German vs OpFore Russian arty)

Ammo loads are same for same classes so must be something else.

Rate of Fire:
Ger 7.5 = 10 Rus 76.2 = 10 no difference
Ger 10.5 = 6 Rus 122 = 4 Russian fires fewer shells every salvo
Ger 15.0 = 4 Rus 152 = 3 Russian fires fewer shells every salvo

Due to faster fire rate the German 105 and 150 will use more ammo every turn and run out of ammo before the Russian 120 and 152 respectively if you try to match them fire mission for fire mission. Fire mission for fire mission the German arty should have a greater effect since they can put more shells in the air than the Russians can.

Another difference is is the number of Batteries you get with each Battalion purchased. The Germans have 3 Battaries in every Battalion while the Russians have 4 Batteries in every Battalion. If you match them Battallion for Battalion the Russians will have an extra Battery with it's own supply of ammo. *Didn't check the price to see if the Russian Battalion costs aprox. 33% more since you get an extra Battery.

These two combined gives Russian arty the ability to have much longer sustained fire missions than the Germans can muster.

Turn Off one of the guns in each of your Batteries if you wish to conserve some ammo.

[robot]

The way I conserv is this. Say i have one battalion of German 150. Each turn I fire only one battery. Most of the time I will have at least one Battery lit up and ready to fire. That way I get a fire oppurtunity almost every turn. If i have 2 batalions then I have two batterys firing almost every turn. 3 Battalion 3 batterys and so forth. Still doin it this way and having batterys sitting idle i very very very seldom see any return fire against the enemys guns. As a matter of fact i think i saw it happen one time in all the years ive been playing this game. So I just never look for it any more and endure the heavy rate of fire of the ai. War is hell !!!!!!

[Riun T]

Hey ROBOT, I've noticed that the computer does'nt do any called counter battery fire unless all my onboard arrty isn't firing or when the onboard have walked their fire to the rearmost enemy's positions on the map?? I've had really good success with asking the onboard to fire onboard counterbattery but agree that the times in about 7years of my playing have only seen it 5 times??? RT where the screen tells u in the lower righthand battle activity box "counterbattery fire range 89 hexes and soforth!!