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Veterin wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:34 am

jasonbroomer wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:26 pm T14 Axis AGS

I need to readjust my approach to counter such aggression by Vet, I was really hoping that stacking 3 healthy elite divisions would have been enough

Just in relation to this attack, yes there were 3 strong axis divisions but i still think it's reasonable that they were able to be defeated given the significant resources dedicated to do so (165k troops, 2k guns and 1k tanks). I was only able to concentrate so many units into the attack as the Axis units were surrounded from 5 hexes. Similarly, despite "winning", i still lost x6 the AFVs than Axis did.

Veterin said, "Axis units were surrounded from 5 hexes".

That is a key factor indeed

jasonbroomer wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:31 pm T15 Axis AGN

A much better turn in the air war thankfully.

Have you checked the AA levels and your flight paths? I noticed the flak losses are still high.

I brought my Stukas up to Leningrad in StB and got them slaughtered because I didn't check AA and their flight plan had them going back and forth over a level 8 AA hex.
I was losing 1/4 of them each mission to flak... Not a good week for the Luftwaffe.

T16 Axis AGN

We are now within striking distance of Osvonets, which means that the supply issues caused by the LfW interdiction campaign will be ended next turn

We are finding the going easier, while Vet has saved troops from the pending Leningrad pocket, it does make my advance swifter.

T16 Axis AGC

With Leningrad finally secure, absent an early and unforecasted hit of heavy mud, we can now begin to buoy up AGC with some reinforcements.
Sadly, it is too late for us to make much progress before the weather turns, so we are securing areas that will help with supply through the mud period and expected blizzards thereafter. Our truck situation is not great!

T16 Axis AGS

Around Kharkov, we get get pushed back before we get chance to pull out. It was never our intention to take city , as we just couldn't hold on to it during the winter.


I am still hopeful of taking Stalino, but Vet's powerful counterattacks are making me cautious.


Sadly, I don't seem to be able to get any reserve activation to work for me, here 4 units on reserve did diddly squat. The Lfw fighters in the area also could have tipped the balance, but they didn't fly. They didn't have good supply so this may have been the reason. It was an expensive battle for the Soviets at least and hopefully they offensive capabilities are spent for a couple of turns. I would love to counterattack the attackers but I can't get through the road blocks that Vet has skilfully positioned.


So I inch forward to the north of the city, ready to make a thrust in the south once 11th Army comes on the scene from the Crimea. Sadly we don't have the strength with 1st Pz to take the city and already we are beginning to struggle with supply, especially ammo in the area. Support is coming from the 6th (?) Army from Kharkov and the 11th Army will soon be finished in the Crimea.

T16 Axis AGS cont

Meanwhile to the south of Stalino, something to embarrass any Soviet


Walloped by Romanians I don't think I've managed this before with Roms. We only outnumbered them 4 to 1 and cutting of their retreat caused 99% causalities to a pesky Cv unit.

This gets our blood up, so we send in the Roms again. Hey, these boyz can do stuff!


We finish our preparations to take Kerch next turn. 11th Army is fresh and if we get lucky with the weather (for a change), there is a chance that we get no mud in one of the two attacking hexes. Around 25% of the hexes in the area are free of mud, so we a reasonable chance of this

There is not much point in taking a Kerch fortress unless you can get onto the Tasman peninsular, as this will allow shipping into the Black Sea which will be useful in winter. So the motorised corps transferred from 1st Pz is ready to force the ferry crossing once the fort falls.

Getting both these operations through is a big ask, but we must keep pushing where we are strong

Your AGS posts don't have the screenshots working.

Seminole wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:54 am

jasonbroomer wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:31 pm T15 Axis AGN

A much better turn in the air war thankfully.

Have you checked the AA levels and your flight paths? I noticed the flak losses are still high.

I brought my Stukas up to Leningrad in StB and got them slaughtered because I didn't check AA and their flight plan had them going back and forth over a level 8 AA hex.
I was losing 1/4 of them each mission to flak... Not a good week for the Luftwaffe.

Yes, this was something I was conscious of. In fact, I brought up a lot of AA assets to units next to Lake Lagoda in te hope of scoring a few of my own.

Turn 16 - Soviet Perspective


Leningrad pocket has been resealed as expected. No chance of reopening this one again with indirection favouring Axis 4-5 points above what I currently have. The fate of the 210k soldiers stuck in the pocket is sealed! I got another 2 divisions (20k manpower) out via the port this turn but this will likely be the last turn I can do so as now that my units are isolated, there will be a lot of attacks next turn and the Osinovets fortress only has ~50 def CV despite having a lot of units in there due to poor supply.

There is one small piece of good news on this front though is that the double rails from Moscow towards Leningrad have been repaired and I am finally getting enough freight to this sector as the soviets receive both passive and active rail repair units on T15. Also I suppose I’ll soon have more command points in the Leningrad front I can use….


Only 2 attacks in AGC and now Axis forces are at the doorsteps of Vyzama. Infantry continues to make a slow advance through this section however I’m expecting a slight pullback to fortify along stronger terrain.


Around Bryansk, last turn it looked like Axis forces were going to try and advance on the city but other than making 1 attack on a cavalry unit, they have pulled back to defensive formations.

T16 - Soviet Perspective Cont...


Axis forces have also pulled back from Kharkov. Two turns of offensive counterattacks may have done the job in saving Kharkov in 1941. The rails to Kharkov have been cut so I’ll look to repair that shortly as that level 9 railway is awesome! At the time i thought Kharkov was an objective JB wanted to take before winter but turns out he just wanted to break the rails and evac the factories (which he succeeded in doing).


Near Kursk, there was a deeper pullback of Axis forces, likely to be closer to the NW/SE single rail. I cautiously move forward out of my entrenchment so I’m hoping that I don’t get counterattacked along this axis next turn although I do have a lot of tank/mechanised assets if there is any axis panzer push.


Whilst the Axis advance seems to be on an operational pause other than Leningrad, it would appear like Stalino is still a key objective as the slow-moving push continues. I didn’t see any opportunities for a counter attack so I shuffled a few units around under cleaner command structures. This screenshot is before my moves but essentially I’ve reinforced the eastern banks of the small river east of Stalino and have moved in a few other units for attacks next turn if JB tries pushing through on a narrow front.

jasonbroomer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:45 am T16 Axis AGS cont

Meanwhile to the south of Stalino, something to embarrass any Soviet


t16 AGS Roms are cool, how embarassing.png


Walloped by Romanians I don't think I've managed this before with Roms. We only outnumbered them 4 to 1 and cutting of their retreat caused 99% causalities to a pesky Cv unit.

This gets our blood up, so we send in the Roms again. Hey, these boyz can do stuff!

You couldn't just route that unit with strong German divisions. You had to embarrass me by using Romanians!

Veterin wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:01 pm

jasonbroomer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:45 am T16 Axis AGS cont

Meanwhile to the south of Stalino, something to embarrass any Soviet


t16 AGS Roms are cool, how embarassing.png


Walloped by Romanians I don't think I've managed this before with Roms. We only outnumbered them 4 to 1 and cutting of their retreat caused 99% causalities to a pesky Cv unit.

This gets our blood up, so we send in the Roms again. Hey, these boyz can do stuff!

You couldn't just route that unit with strong German divisions. You had to embarrass me by using Romanians!

Now that is funny!

Jasonbroomer used rule 23.8.5 last paragraph against you it looks like

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:32 pm

Veterin wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:01 pm

jasonbroomer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:45 am T16 Axis AGS cont

Meanwhile to the south of Stalino, something to embarrass any Soviet


t16 AGS Roms are cool, how embarassing.png


Walloped by Romanians I don't think I've managed this before with Roms. We only outnumbered them 4 to 1 and cutting of their retreat caused 99% causalities to a pesky Cv unit.

This gets our blood up, so we send in the Roms again. Hey, these boyz can do stuff!

You couldn't just route that unit with strong German divisions. You had to embarrass me by using Romanians!

Now that is funny!

Jasonbroomer used rule 23.8.5 last paragraph against you it looks like

23.8.5.png

Hrmm well played Jasonbroomer. I was not aware of that rule! Now it finally makes sense why i've been getting nearly 100% losses on my cavalry divisions rather than the usual low losses/retreat 1 hex routine.

HLYA - does this same rule apply if an applicable division can't retreat to an adjacent nearby hex. For example, if an applicable unit has 1 hex that it can retreat to but there are already 3 divisions stacked in it, does this rule trigger or not?

Veterin wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:49 pm

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:32 pm

Veterin wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:01 pm

You couldn't just route that unit with strong German divisions. You had to embarrass me by using Romanians!

Now that is funny!

Jasonbroomer used rule 23.8.5 last paragraph against you it looks like

23.8.5.png

Hrmm well played Jasonbroomer. I was not aware of that rule! Now it finally makes sense why i've been getting nearly 100% losses on my cavalry divisions rather than the usual low losses/retreat 1 hex routine.

HLYA - does this same rule apply if an applicable division can't retreat to an adjacent nearby hex. For example, if an applicable unit has 1 hex that it can retreat to but there are already 3 divisions stacked in it, does this rule trigger or not?

I didn’t know it either! But I knew if a unit can’t retreat, it routs. Retreating to a hex with 3 friendlies doesn’t block the retreat but causes a further displacement

jasonbroomer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:45 am T16 Axis AGS cont

Meanwhile to the south of Stalino, something to embarrass any Soviet


t16 AGS Roms are cool, how embarassing.png

Why doesn’t this level of loss result in shattered units anymore?

I feel like something has changed with units persisting with double or single digit number of men.
Feels relatively recent.

It's been like this (lack of shatters) since release with the sole exception of the two artillery patches.

Seminole wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:43 pm

jasonbroomer wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:45 am T16 Axis AGS cont

Meanwhile to the south of Stalino, something to embarrass any Soviet


t16 AGS Roms are cool, how embarassing.png

Why doesn’t this level of loss result in shattered units anymore?

I feel like something has changed with units persisting with double or single digit number of men.
Feels relatively recent.

You do occasionally see shatters. I recently did in a Sov Cv with a motorised regiment. The Cv has already been routed, it was enclosed and shattered with a hasty attack.

I agree that it is odd that you can kill all the troops in a unit and that it still does not shatter.

T17 Axis AGN

Turn 16 is usually a turning point in the weather as heavy mud usually arrives on t17. Somehow the weather gods have favoured me and the mud in the north and indeed over much of the map, is only light. I'm not sure how unusual this is but given that I have had more than my fair share of light mud, I think this helps square things up a little.

As a rule, I find that you get around 3 turns of light mud in August and in the north sporadic mud in July and September. I seem to have had significantly more turns of light mud in the north and it has hampered progress. The 0.75 combat malus is not ideal, but scrabbling through muddy swamps is not much fun, especially for motorised units. It also has been very expensive in trucks. Such are the woes of a Leningrad thrust.


The half decent weather allowed me the chance to take Leningrad before the mud arrives. Thankfully Vet had given up contesting the port access so at last the LfW managed to isolate the sector. Not only did Leningrad fall but we also cleared out the entire isthmus with an impressive degree of German efficiency if I may say so.


Note the positioning of the motorised regiment. Cutting off retreat routes for isolated troops makes sure that they surrender the first time. Here I couldn't cut off all the retreat avenues, but troops face a moral test to retreat next to an enemy. The hammered defenders were unlikely to manage to pass that.

This proved to be enormously useful in sorting out the troops in the subsequent turns. Vet had managed to extract some units, but the remaining ones were weak and resistance swiftly collapsed.

T17 Axis

Not much else happened this turn as I bedded down the army within easy distance of depots to spare trucking breakdowns in the forthcoming mud.

The exception was in the Crimea, where I had hoped of the small chance of decent terrain to help my attack on the Kerch fortress. Sadly, the Soviets had managed to lift the entrenchment from 2 to 3 which should have warned me that there would be a lot of defenders. Anyway, I went all in with my fresh infantry divisions, a good leader, RFSS Sus, pioneers and siege artillery. One division and 3 regiments were placed for reserve activation.


Not even close, and laughably the none of the reserve activations triggered. In fact our losses were quite significant. The excessive number of fighter losses were Romanian fighters (that must be an oxymoron if there ever was one), but we also lost quite a lot of equipment.

I did consider attempting again the following turn but this would have involved committing my motorised corps. Given the knock back the first attack suffered, and the impossibility of forcing the Tasman straight before winter set in, I decided against it. The 11th Army dropped off a couple of divisions to guard the peninsular and set off with all haste to Stalino.

Taking stock of the turn, a decent haul of Soviets, but slightly disappointing compared to what we had hoped to bag from Leningrad.
and a review of the OoB

T17 Soviet Perspective

Seeing all those brave Soviet souls be wiped out makes Stalin very sad! They were out of supply for a number of turns so they weren't able to put up much of a fight once isolated too.

It’s a shame I wasn’t able to hold out for one more turn as heavy mud has set in across the AFN front. Total soviet losses from the Axis phasing turn were 172k so overall losses would have been lower than 140k around Leningrad. Still, those are forces I desperately needed across the front and my OOB has been pushed down to 3.8m on map. With Leningrad now taken, the Axis forces can free up a lot of units for deployment in other theatres.

My first guard rifle division has appeared this turn and I will continue to nurture high win rifle divisions to get more conversions. Heavy mud has set in many areas so its unlikely the next few turns will see much action from either side.

As JB pointed out in his t17 write up, the one bright spot for me on the turn was Crimea.

Whilst my fortress at Kerch is full with a lvl 3 fort, Axis forces attacked with a similar sized force and only just held however the fort level was lowered from 3 to 2. I can see at least 3 units behind the forces that attacked last turn no doubt building up CPP so I don’t think this fort will hold for long. I need heavy mud for this defence to hold out next turn but I don’t think it’s possible for that to happen next turn. I need water level 6 for heavy mud to occur and I currently have water level 3 on the hex. With light rain, the water level will change from -1 to +2 next turn. I think the -1 is because if water level is greater or equal to 3, 1 is subtracted each turn.

Not much to report on the rest of the fronts as there is heavy mud in lots of areas resulting in attacking CV droping for both sides. I use this opportunity to rotate some of my second line divisions that have high CPP with the front-line troops so I can build up more CPP across my army as well as reorganise the Leningrad/North West front given my command capacity changes following the loss of my units around Leningrad city....