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RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:07 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Froonp
ORIGINAL: composer99
I find the white "Z"s rather hard to read on the clear terrain tiles. Maybe they should be a different colour, or as abj9562 suggests some sort of highlighting scheme be devised for the tutorials.
Steve, maybe you could show them what the "hex highlight" version looked like ?
Alas, I have no hex highlight version.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:13 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: composer99
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: composer99
I find the white "Z"s rather hard to read on the clear terrain tiles. Maybe they should be a different colour, or as abj9562 suggests some sort of highlighting scheme be devised for the tutorials.
How about a smaller font and ZOC instead of Z? Would that help do you think?
Smaller font, "ZOC" instead of "Z" should both help. A colour other than white would also help. That would probably be sufficient. If the unit has ZOCs into adjacent hexes maybe also have arrows pointing into the hexes with the ZOC notifier at the pointy end?
Arrows would be preferrec but then the text should be aligned with the arrow, which is hard to do (even harder is to get it to look nice).
For this situation I think of font colors as basically two: dark and light. There is a lot going on in any screen shot of units on the map, and regardless of which color you select, there will be dark and light backgrounds against which it needs to be visible. So you are doomed whichever you choose.[:(] You point out that white on Clear is hard to read but that will be true for almost any light color (Clear is a composite of light colors). Dark/black against mountain hexes has the same problem.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:19 pm
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Froonp
ORIGINAL: composer99
I find the white "Z"s rather hard to read on the clear terrain tiles. Maybe they should be a different colour, or as abj9562 suggests some sort of highlighting scheme be devised for the tutorials.
Steve, maybe you could show them what the "hex highlight" version looked like ?
Alas, I have no hex highlight version.
It was this one, that I sent you in the first place.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:08 am
by brian brian
I think "ZoC" would be best, rather than shading. The example on the Rumanian front suffers from 'busyness' with so many units and ZoCs being shown at once, but really I think most people could get it all figured out once they made it this far.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:59 pm
by composer99
I think black would show up well even on the mountain hexes. I freely admit that I could be mistaken in that regard.
And now that I look at the pictures a bit more, I think maybe either arrows or the words are the way to go, but not both. As long as the tutorial says that the units have ZoCs into the hexes/over the hexsides they have arrows pointing into or "ZoC" in, it should be pretty clear.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:56 pm
by Anendrue
ORIGINAL: Froonp
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Froonp
Steve, maybe you could show them what the "hex highlight" version looked like ?
Alas, I have no hex highlight version.
It was this one, that I sent you in the first place.
I really like the hex highlight for ZOC presented here. For teaching and illustrative purposes it seems pretty clear.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:48 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: abj9562
ORIGINAL: Froonp
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Alas, I have no hex highlight version.
It was this one, that I sent you in the first place.
I really like the hex highlight for ZOC presented here. For teaching and illustrative purposes it seems pretty clear.
It makes all the terrain look different.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:52 pm
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
It makes all the terrain look different.
Yes, this is why I like it the least.
I prefer the white Z markers over the shaded one, and over the ZoC word, as ZoC is too long to stand confortable in all 6 places near the hexsides as I have placed the Z.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:46 pm
by Toed
I also like the clarity of the single Z. Perhaps you should add the Z showing control the the own hex for the units that also extend zoc to other hexes to avoid even the slightest risk of missunderstandings.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:48 pm
by JagdFlanker
tried this for fun - looks ok, but doesn't look like it's any improvement.
the only other way i can think of is to have arrows coming the the moving units to a "stop sign" in any hex which is in the enemy ZOC, since that might have less clutter than just detailing every unit's ZOC
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:23 pm
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader
tried this for fun - looks ok, but doesn't look like it's any improvement.
Looks good. I like that.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:31 pm
by composer99
ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader
tried this for fun - looks ok, but doesn't look like it's any improvement.
The picture you put in looks pretty good; one could probably do away with the shading in that example since it is no longer necessary information.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:07 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader
tried this for fun - looks ok, but doesn't look like it's any improvement.
the only other way i can think of is to have arrows coming the the moving units to a "stop sign" in any hex which is in the enemy ZOC, since that might have less clutter than just detailing every unit's ZOC
Very nice! Thanks![&o]
I really like:
- the shadowing of the ZOC since that makes it visible against all backgrounds.
- using ZOC instead of simply Z, since the normal abbreviation for zone of control is ZOC.
- the connecting lines, and I do not believe arrows are necessary - they are will not add any information but will increase clutter.
- the placement of ZOC in the center of the hex since the ZOC affects the entire hex.
Suggested improvements:
- I agree with Composer99 that the hex shading is unnecessary now.
- A single shadowed Z in the lower right corner of units that have a ZOC into their own hex (here that is every unit except the supply, air, and naval units).
And that (I think) will look terrific.[:)]
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:01 pm
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Very nice! Thanks![&o]
I really like:
- the shadowing of the ZOC since that makes it visible against all backgrounds.
- using ZOC instead of simply Z, since the normal abbreviation for zone of control is ZOC.
- the connecting lines, and I do not believe arrows are necessary - they are will not add any information but will increase clutter.
- the placement of ZOC in the center of the hex since the ZOC affects the entire hex.
Suggested improvements:
- I agree with Composer99 that the hex shading is unnecessary now.
- A single shadowed Z in the lower right corner of units that have a ZOC into their own hex (here that is every unit except the supply, air, and naval units).
And that (I think) will look terrific.[:)]
I'll try to reproduce that, if Flanker agrees.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:09 pm
by JagdFlanker
the shading is still there only because i was too lazy to make my own fresh screenshot
also if i had thought of it it might be more straight-forward if the colour of 'ZOC' matched the unit - ie should be brown to match the brown of the russian unit
to demonstrate how ZOC resticts movement it still might be an idea to have a similer depiction of where a unit can move to except swap 'ZOC' with stop signs/red hexagons
reproduce away!
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:21 pm
by Hortlund
Write ZOC over that partisan-counter aswell
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:26 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
Here is our current (final?) pass on tutorial page 8.1.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:27 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
And the comparable revision for 8.2.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:29 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
3rd and last in series. A new page for you to critique. Graphics by Patrice.
RE: Tutorial #8 Zones of Control Hex Control & Stacking Limits
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:31 pm
by Anendrue
OMG This game looks more and more polished every day. Here we look at a tutorial and I salivate over the desire to crush minors under foot.