Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: dougb

Unfortunately with my brief experience with the game so far, it not only looks terrible but it's not very much fun at all. It's the type of product only a weapons system expert or a chartered accountant could really love.

It was always going to be. But 'people' wanted a WW2 game with the PoA2 engine (or the POA2 engine applied to a WW2 game) for some reason; one that after having attempted to 'play' PoA2 is beyond my comprehension. At least with PoA2 I could see that military professionals might possibly get something out of it.

My copy is in the mail. I hope it's not as bad as people think. 

Uggh. Looking at the graphics for "Tigers Unleashed" brings back memories of my Atari console back in the 1980s. Is HPS ever going to join the 20th Century (let alone the 21st)?

EDIT: And this thing costs $50???? [X(]

Gary, there's a lot going under the hood.  It's a very sophisticated simulation.  But I feel it's not fun as a game based on my experience with POA2.

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Uggh. Looking at the graphics for "Tigers Unleashed" brings back memories of my Atari console back in the 1980s. Is HPS ever going to join the 20th Century (let alone the 21st)?

Judging by the feature list and system requirements they already are in the XXI century. Taking in account the tiny size of the target audience and complete lack of competition hiring someone to do better graphics would be both financially unsound and unnecessary.

I bought the game and would have to agree with you guys overall. But once you start to get into it, its amazing if you can get past the graphics. Also on a large battle my machine took 15 minutes to run a turn. I have a machine that is dual core 2.2 gig with 8 gig ram(computer is pushing two years old). So you'll need a good machine to run this game in a short time. Anyway I like the game. For me it was money well spent but it's not for everyone.

ORIGINAL: jomni

Gary, there's a lot going under the hood.  It's a very sophisticated simulation.  But I feel it's not fun as a game based on my experience with POA2.

The graphics remind me of AH Tactics II, fond memories of board wargaming.

The HPS & Tiller graphics discussion comes up every time we have a new release. I like nice graphics, but the game is what is important. It seems that a lot of people feel a game must have great graphics to be worthwhile. In actuality, graphics are eye candy to fool us into believing a game is good.

That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

How many scenarios come with the game?

ORIGINAL: sabre1

How many scenarios come with the game?

I can't confirm the below, I copied it from the NWS site description of the game. I haven't decided yet if I will buy it or not, maybe if get through the Holiday expenses I'll consider it after that. As usual so many games to consider and too little time and money.
--------------------------
The table of organization file provides invaluable information on units for this period of World War II. Specialized forces, such as Waffen SS, Brandenburger commando, and Soviet Guards are included in addition to panzer divisions, gerbirgs troops, tank corps, and the ubiquitous infantry. In addition to the Wehrmacht and Red Army, the game also portrays Finns, Hungarians, Italian, Polish, Romanian and Slovak forces.

The game has over 30 scenarios, including: the panzers closing the Kiev pocket, fighting along the road to Moscow, the battle of Kharkov, Brandenburgers in Finland, the breakout from Demyansk, the Italian cavalry charge at the Don River, Grossdeutschland Division fighting for Voronezh, SS Wiking storming the Caucasus, the Red Army's Operation Uranus, von Manstein's attempted relief of Stalingrad—and Tiger tank actions outside of Leningrad.

Battles also include Suomussalmi from the Winter War, and Krojanty 1939 where Polish cavalry overran a German mechanized column. Scenario designers include Scott Hamilton, Jeff Lapkoff, Joseph Miranda and Gary Bezant.
-----------------
Note: Some of the info posted on NWS does not seem to match info posted at HPS. Last minute game chages before release? One example it appears on one post that you can play by email, but the current HPS post seems to indicate that it is against AI or hotseat only.

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

Initial reports on Usenet indicate a lot of freezes and C++ crashes in addition to a cumbersome UI

.. not that this comes as a surprise to anyone who witnessed the PoA 2 debacle

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

Initial reports on Usenet indicate a lot of freezes and C++ crashes in addition to a cumbersome UI

.. not that this comes as a surprise to anyone who witnessed the PoA 2 debacle

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Yeah, I have seen several postings about problems. Another reason that waiting may be a good option. No matter how innovative and/or promising a game sounds, crashes, freezes and failures aren't worth the hassle to me. I do have more HPS titles then any other company, but those are the more tried and classic style campaign series (panzer, civil war, etc) and squad battles.

I think I counted some were around thirty.

ORIGINAL: sabre1

How many scenarios come with the game?

I haven't had one problem yet......cross my fingers......so its not happening to everyone.[:)] Alot of them didn't let the game install to its default path-I did and the game plays fine for me.[;)]

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

Initial reports on Usenet indicate a lot of freezes and C++ crashes in addition to a cumbersome UI

.. not that this comes as a surprise to anyone who witnessed the PoA 2 debacle

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Yeah, I have seen several postings about problems. Another reason that waiting may be a good option. No matter how innovative and/or promising a game sounds, crashes, freezes and failures aren't worth the hassle to me. I do have more HPS titles then any other company, but those are the more tried and classic style campaign series (panzer, civil war, etc) and squad battles.

Well I loved TOP and PITS, so I will probably bite but like others probably after Christmas. I will continue to read reviews and keep an eye on it.

I just got done buying Panzer Corps 39-41, Armada and expansion, BA Market Garden. I would like to pick up DW Legends, Unity of Command. It's a good time to be a wargamer.

Oh yeah, before I forget, Merry Christmas everyone.

Same back to ya- Merry Christmas.[;)]

ORIGINAL: sabre1

Well I loved TOP and PITS, so I will probably bite but like others probably after Christmas. I will continue to read reviews and keep an eye on it.

I just got done buying Panzer Corps 39-41, Armada and expansion, BA Market Garden. I would like to pick up DW Legends, Unity of Command. It's a good time to be a wargamer.

Oh yeah, before I forget, Merry Christmas everyone.

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
The HPS & Tiller graphics discussion comes up every time we have a new release. I like nice graphics, but the game is what is important. It seems that a lot of people feel a game must have great graphics to be worthwhile. In actuality, graphics are eye candy to fool us into believing a game is good.

That said of course it is best to have both, but the game play itself should be the most important factor.

The discussion comes up every time because HPS & Tiller graphics are exceptionally pathetic. I agree that graphics aren't everything and gameplay is important but this is ridiculous.

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

The discussion comes up every time because HPS & Tiller graphics are exceptionally pathetic. I agree that graphics aren't everything and gameplay is important but this is ridiculous.

Let me share an annecdote regarding just how dire this whole graphics-deal has become from the standpoint of someone who has bought some of these games and tried to play them...

As some of our readers may have noted, I've posted numerous comments here, and elsewhere, praising the 2010 release by HPS of its Midway game. There came a point where I was so enamored of the virtues of the program that I decided to do an in-depth AAR of Midway with an eye toward posting said AAR at various gaming-sites. Suffice it to say, my intention was to encourage embrace of its several strengths.

However, when I tried to create a series of screen-captures to include in the AAR, I found that they were completely unusable when taken at a resolution of 1920x1200. The little blue and red dots that represent ships were so small as to be virtually invisible in the JPG files that I created to go with narrative.

LOL, I spent an afternoon, or so, trying to dream-up some sort of euphemism to explain away the phenomena. However, after a little sober reflection, I decided that the world would be a better place if I simply kept my mouth shut. A few hours later, I deleted my work believing that, were I to detail any of what I had engaged in on behalf of the game, I'd likely do it more harm than good.

These are tough-times for developers of computer wargames, but they're not particularly great for their customers, either.

I got a refund for Tigers which was great service by HPS.

I installed it to C drive but had loads of C++ errors. Also the default and NATO symbols weren't working. Finally the game appeared to have more or less no real AI. I stormed through a 3 rated difficulty scenario on the highest settings. I'm talking no challenge at all.

I love the concept, I just hope Scott gets it fixed but it's been eight years with this engine now and still the same problem (actually it's worse with Tigers than PoA2) so I don't have much confidence. Also I hope the AI is better than it appeared if it ever gets fixed and some clever spark makes a decent Stalingrad scenario (sadly missing) and any othe rbugs get fixed oh and just a little mod spruce up of the graphics (I hated the wreckage counters of modern day tanks) then I shall buy it again. Like I said the concept is superb and the detail amazing.

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

Let me share an annecdote regarding just how dire this whole graphics-deal has become from the standpoint of someone who has bought some of these games and tried to play them...

The real problem is the UI -- something we can't mod to work smoother.

I put together an image to show the issues I have with HPS style UIs:



Hopefully it clarifies some of my issues; and maybe HPS/Tiller will read it and take it to heart.

Yeah but TOAW has the most complicated turn system I've yet come across. I find JT games to be rather easy with regards to the UI.