Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Why Vietnam '65 has not been mentioned by now?

I've played Vietnam '65. It's a fun game, but hard to take seriously. It's in line with the HPS Simulation Squad Battles games. Fun... but shallow.

3W published "No Trumpets, No Drums" back in the 1980's. Some pretty innovative modelling concepts and quite playable in spite of an appalling selection of colours for the map and counters.

No Trumpets, No Drums

This was a frequent Saturday killer back in the day and the American/ARVN side never seemed to be able to win.

-C

Any speculation as to why this seems such an avoided subject for serious consideration?

ORIGINAL: WriterJWA

Any speculation as to why this seems such an avoided subject for serious consideration?

Asymmetrical warfare is hard to simulate. Winning battles is only part of the struggle.

there was a strategy game from the 80's set in vietnam - NAM 1965-1975 - and you could play as POTUS Nixon or Johnson and must manage resources and public opinion, but it also had some campaign scenarios too as well as general war.

Fields of Fire solo board game has a Vietnam campaign, Volume 2 will have one aswell.

ORIGINAL: WriterJWA

Any speculation as to why this seems such an avoided subject for serious consideration?

This was a very unpopular war (from the US population) and it dragged on for over a decade...

ORIGINAL: wodin

Fields of Fire solo board game has a Vietnam campaign, Volume 2 will have one aswell.

Yeah, I have both of these pre-ordered. It doesn't look like GMT prints them until next summer, though.

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

there was a strategy game from the 80's set in vietnam - NAM 1965-1975 - and you could play as POTUS Nixon or Johnson and must manage resources and public opinion, but it also had some campaign scenarios too as well as general war.

Funny. . . that's partially what prompted the question. I have that game, and I opened it up after years to sort the pieces into new trays and I basically asked, "Why can't I get this on computer?"

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/562 ... -1965-1975

ORIGINAL: WriterJWA

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

there was a strategy game from the 80's set in vietnam - NAM 1965-1975 - and you could play as POTUS Nixon or Johnson and must manage resources and public opinion, but it also had some campaign scenarios too as well as general war.

Funny. . . that's partially what prompted the question. I have that game, and I opened it up after years to sort the pieces into new trays and I basically asked, "Why can't I get this on computer?"

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/562 ... -1965-1975

lol, i actually only know of this as a computer game - i didnt know it was a board game.

The computer was i believe put out in 1991 by Domark

actually here is a page on it on the german site The Legacy, which catalogues pretty much all old games as some kind of museum of sorts
http://www.thelegacy.de/Museum/SQLFrameset.php3

I enjoy this a lot on the iPAD:




JTS Modern Campaigns - Quang Tri '72



Also on Android for those without IOS.

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: WriterJWA

Any speculation as to why this seems such an avoided subject for serious consideration?

Asymmetrical warfare is hard to simulate. Winning battles is only part of the struggle.

It is a part in Sid Meier's Civilization series. In Civilization IV is Spy unit. Those are visible only to the controlling player, other players don't see them. In addition of spying, Spy can do variety of sabotage, like poison city's water supply, destroy a building, destroy a tile improvement (like a farm or a mine or a railroad), incite revolt, and then some. There are ways to counter a Spy. One of the best is Spy of your own: having a Spy in your own city is effective way to catch enemy spies. Military units also can catch enemy Spies but are less effective. In addition game has a resource: Espionage Points. More you have it, more effective are your Spies, less effective are enemy Spies. In addition having a Spy several turns in enemy city will make it easier to do espionage and stuff for less Espionage Points.

Could this general idea be adapted and tailored for the wargames? Like having variety of units that can move unseen by the enemy, do espionage and remain undetected ( = doesn't appear on the map), or appear (on the map) when they do something (like attack enemy unit). Opinions?

We've got Campaign Series: Vietnam under construction for a late 2017 release. More tactical than operational, but it will include also very large scenarios and linked campaigns. Platoons / 250m hexes.

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

We've got Campaign Series: Vietnam under construction for a late 2017 release. More tactical than operational, but it will include also very large scenarios and linked campaigns. Platoons / 250m hexes.

Yes indeed! [:)]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

We've got Campaign Series: Vietnam under construction for a late 2017 release. More tactical than operational, but it will include also very large scenarios and linked campaigns. Platoons / 250m hexes.

Very cool, that should be interesting for sure.

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

We've got Campaign Series: Vietnam under construction for a late 2017 release. More tactical than operational, but it will include also very large scenarios and linked campaigns. Platoons / 250m hexes.

by Campaign you are meaning like East Front/Rising Sun/Middle East etc Campaign series , if so that is superb and would be a standout game for the subject

-

This was a very unpopular war (from the US population) ...

I'd put that at the top of the list as to why more isn't done with it ...

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

This was a very unpopular war (from the US population) ...

I'd put that at the top of the list as to why more isn't done with it ...

I dunno... I find it hard to believe that because was an unpopular war sudden precludes it from being unworthy of a proper representation in a war game. World War I killed millions of people and is generally believed to be one of the dumbest wars in world history, yet has seen plenty of credible treatment in strategy gaming. It's hard for me to believe that people who play advanced war games would suddenly turn their nose up at an war game that accurately depicts the strategic and tactical problems of a complex conflict just because it was unpopular during its time.

You might be right ...

I was in US Army 75-81 and at least at the start of my time ... enlisted over grade of E-4 almost all had Vietnam experience. Offices from O-4 and up. But the people I know in the modern Army have told me "Vietnam was a bad war" ... which I take to mean some "nose up" attitude ...

This being said ... EYE am working on a VN War game.

I've been fascinated by the Mobile Riverine Force for eons ... so getting back to that. First doing it in minatures at the command decision scale ... but if I can get it to work ... goal would be to computerize the whole war at some scale no larger than 5m/hex.

A more tactical game on MRF does include a lot of elements ... boats, amphibious assaults ... helicopters, airmobile assaults, air strikes ... mech (5/60th was involved in several major actions) ... barge artillery ... etc.

My interest in MRF might stem, in part, from the idea of a joint force, before there was the idea of a joint force The Navy ran the boats and many of the dedicated choppers ... they army ran the troops and the on call choppers ... The chain of command did not merge until CINCPAC in HI. But the local commanders worked things out and made MRF work.

I'll try to remember to post some pics of where I'm at ... I got talked into doing this in 15mm ... (would've preferred 1/285th) ...

I've long been interested in a Vietnam operational game as well. I don't know if we'll ever see one that is able to scratch the itches, though I'll keep my eye out for that CSV title. Maybe in 20 years we'll have game design AI that can help us out and make a niche game (Vietnam) about a niche topic (COIN) economically feasible. Or maybe Fire in the Lake will get a port to a proper PC game (I'm a little surprised it hasn't been yet).

And yeah, the MRF was pretty cool. I was kicking around an ad-hoc mini game based on a new MRF in the Niger Delta circa 2020 a few years ago, assuming a Nigerian civil war. I'd love to be able to do something like that on a PC.