Matrix Games Forums

Well no longer any need to frequent the Matrix Forums any more. This was the only game I had any interest in from Matrix. Looks like Second Front from Microprose will be the only choice remaining.

PipFromSlitherine wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:08 pm but it does need us to have the right team in place to execute it.

Seems like it's already been executed.

Lobster wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:10 pm

PipFromSlitherine wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:08 pm but it does need us to have the right team in place to execute it.

Seems like it's already been executed.

There’s enough for some to hope it’s just a self induced coma haha

Like Close Assault and there was a real time squad game announced many many years ago they too got cancelled. Close Assault had so much promise (Think it was called that).

Such a damn shame.

A WW2 version of Flashpoint Campaigns and Second Front are all I'm looking forward to, though both exciting projects, one more an actual development, the other at the possible development stage.

wodin wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:04 am Like Close Assault and there was a real time squad game announced many many years ago they too got cancelled. Close Assault had so much promise (Think it was called that).

Such a damn shame.

A WW2 version of Flashpoint Campaigns and Second Front are all I'm looking forward to, though both exciting projects, one more an actual development, the other at the possible development stage.

And what do you think of Headquarters World War II ?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... hm4WKt0lZT

rico21 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:32 am

wodin wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:04 am Like Close Assault and there was a real time squad game announced many many years ago they too got cancelled. Close Assault had so much promise (Think it was called that).

Such a damn shame.

A WW2 version of Flashpoint Campaigns and Second Front are all I'm looking forward to, though both exciting projects, one more an actual development, the other at the possible development stage.

And what do you think of Headquarters World War II ?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... hm4WKt0lZT

Not out yet so don't know. It's in my wish list. Like the look of Tank Squad

My first time on the general forum since the new forum and I find that Steel Tigers is dead. I haven't bought a new computer wargame in I don't know how long and at this point the only one I plan to buy is Second Front. Things like this, and the fact that I can't tweak computer games to meet my preferences are the reason that I've gone back to board games after all these years. Several years ago I said I'd never go back to boardgames, but here I am...it took me a couple of decades but I finally realized that computer wargames will probably never deliver what I want, especially when I want it.

76mm wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:56 pm My first time on the general forum since the new forum and I find that Steel Tigers is dead. I haven't bought a new computer wargame in I don't know how long and at this point the only one I plan to buy is Second Front. Things like this, and the fact that I can't tweak computer games to meet my preferences are the reason that I've gone back to board games after all these years. Several years ago I said I'd never go back to boardgames, but here I am...it took me a couple of decades but I finally realized that computer wargames will probably never deliver what I want, especially when I want it.

A very interesting post here. Not being a board wargamer, I have nothing to go back to! So, in my situation, new releases like Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive and Campaign Series: Vietnam have certainly had my attention, and both seem pretty open to tweaking.

I did once try ASL solitaire and couldn't get past the rules. But there was a visceral aspect to it that maybe 76mm alludes to. Not sure, as I am not him.

And yes, Wodin, that was SSI's Close Assault, an amazing game in its day. I didn't know a follow-up was even planned and, as you report, abandoned.

76mm wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:56 pm My first time on the general forum since the new forum and I find that Steel Tigers is dead. I haven't bought a new computer wargame in I don't know how long and at this point the only one I plan to buy is Second Front. Things like this, and the fact that I can't tweak computer games to meet my preferences are the reason that I've gone back to board games after all these years. Several years ago I said I'd never go back to boardgames, but here I am...it took me a couple of decades but I finally realized that computer wargames will probably never deliver what I want, especially when I want it.

Yep. Or use one of the software packages that allows one to "digitize" a wargame, but use it to create the game one wants. Computer wargames have gone on development paths that don't interest me for the most part anymore.

Cheers

cathar1244 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:21 am
Yep. Or use one of the software packages that allows one to "digitize" a wargame, but use it to create the game one wants. Computer wargames have gone on development paths that don't interest me for the most part anymore.

Cheers

Didn't Matrix/Slitherine buy up one of these? Or maybe just became the publisher? Or I'm hallucinating. Maybe the spoon isn't bending but my mind.

Lobster wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:50 pm

cathar1244 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 7:21 am
Yep. Or use one of the software packages that allows one to "digitize" a wargame, but use it to create the game one wants. Computer wargames have gone on development paths that don't interest me for the most part anymore.

Cheers

Didn't Matrix/Slitherine buy up one of these? Or maybe just became the publisher? Or I'm hallucinating. Maybe the spoon isn't bending but my mind.

I was thinking of this one: https://cyberboard.brainiac.com/index.html

Be nice if someone published an updated "wargame construction set", sort of a TOAW but one in which the designer would be able to tinker with most everything.

Cheers

Ah that loosened the cogs. Aide de Camp and Vassal were the two I was thinking of. Maybe Vassal was the one M/S now have.

Here we go: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/matrix ... ame-engine

Rosseau wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:34 am I did once try ASL solitaire and couldn't get past the rules. But there was a visceral aspect to it that maybe 76mm alludes to. Not sure, as I am not him.

Actually, I should clarify that when I say I'm "going back to board games" it doesn't mean that I will necessarily be playing them in hard copy--most I will try to play on VASSAL. The main point is that I won't have to wait ten years for a computer game only to find that I didn't like how it turned out. There is a huge variety of board games out there, and if necessary I will be able to create a VASSAL module for games I like myself.

I had no idea that Matrix owned VASSAL...seems kind of odd, because it is almost entirely non-commercial (I don't think I've ever seen a VASSAL module which is not free).

Matrix Games does not own VASSAL.

VASSAL is open source and free.

https://github.com/vassalengine/vassal

Ah. So fake news.

But that is a 17 year old piece. I have no idea what partially open source would be anyway.

It is amazing to me that one of the most popular war games in the history of computer wargaming is not being updates with an apparent sense of urgency.

There is no doubt that this game has an extensive following.

The lack of a focused effort to develop a clear source of revenue is simply baffling ... and sad, because this is my all time favorite game ...

... very sad ...

Zovs wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:42 pm Matrix Games does not own VASSAL.

I always thought that VASSAL was public domain, but the link that Lobster posted (from July 2005) said:
Representatives from historical war game developer Matrix Games have announced that the company has acquired the rights to the PC online board and card game-specific Vassal Engine from Vassal Engineering, with the intention of improving and supporting the technology as a new platform for game publishing. The Vassal engine enables designers to create individually branded, commercial standalone applications that moderate any turn-based game for human vs. human play. The engine was originally designed to provide a quick and easy way to play board games online against similar players around the world. Most games currently playable via Vassal are based either directly or indirectly on existing table top war or CCG games, with titles currently being played including War of the Ring and HeroQuest, though it seems that the partly open-source engine is currently used for many 'unofficial', unlicensed versions of games. David Heath, Director of Operations at Matrix Games, said, "We believe Vassal offers a great way to bring board gamers together over the internet, while also offering designers a new avenue to reach the gaming public. In many cases, the investment required to turn each design into a printed and distributed game is beyond the reach of many designers and publishers. Vassal offers a way to reach gamers with new and exciting designs that would not otherwise see print as well as allowing existing board gamers to find a community for their favorite game online."


Pretty specific statement and quotes for it to be false, would be odd for Matrix to acquire the rights and then put it into the public domain. That's all I know about this issue!

76mm wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:59 pm Pretty specific statement and quotes for it to be false, would be odd for Matrix to acquire the rights and then put it into the public domain. That's all I know about this issue!

VASSAL is under the GNU Lesser General Public License, version 2.1 or later

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/lgpl-2.1.html

...Which states:

The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public Licenses are intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software--to make sure the software is free for all its users.

While it is true that Matrix Games bought VASSAL back in 2005, I guess that they couldn't find a good use for it. The VASSAL main page currently states:

Copyright © 2009–2022 The Vassal Team

VASSAL is not owned by Matrix Games. Tell me where on their site is Matrix Games listed? Scroll down, keep scrolling, where is it mentioned? It’s not because Matrix does not own it.

https://vassalengine.org/about.html