Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: soldier

The simple fix for smokescreens is to allow fire through them, but with a vastly lowered hit chance. Why would anyone want to do that, anyway? I know that recon by fire into a hex is allowed, but it seems a waste of ammo. To each his own, I suppose.

I agree that firing into smoke would be greatly innacurate and not neccessarily a wise tactic

When I was an infantryman in the US Army, one of my NCOs, during an exercise, told me a bit of wisdom. "Green troops never fire into smoke."
Smoke is supposed to be used to screen your movements - hence, if somebody throws smoke, thye are doing something sneaky. Green troops, per my Sergeant, just sit there. But experienced troops, knowing something is up, open fire while guys that threw the smoke are making use of it to move and not be seen.

Being able to fire into a hex filled with smoke is nearly worthless. It's best advantage is that if you know or suspect an enemy unit is in there, they get suppressed and may OpFire back at you, confiming their presence, and now you can cally artillery on them. If you want ot enter a hex with smoke and trees/vegetation, have a covering unit "Z" key into the hex several times and then move in - you won't take fire as you come adjacent. Ditto when entering hexes while mounted - if you suppress hexes with units you cannot see, they are still suppressed and won't shoot *you*.

Being able to fire into the hexes *beyond* that smoke, however, would be priceless. Who *hasn't* laid a smoke screen with mortars to hide his engineers moving forward to clear an obstacle? If you've had it done to you, you've wanted to fire through that smoke, I'm certain, instead of blindly firing artillery at targets you cannot see.

It's best advantage is that if you know or suspect an enemy unit is in there, they get suppressed and may OpFire back at you, confiming their presence, and now you can cally artillery on them.

Of course in most of these cases there will be no line of sight, and returning opfire will therefore be impossible (opfire is always targetted). I think this is a good thing. Also the concept would add a lot of excitement to infantry-vs-infantry fighting when the visibility is very low (smoke or night-time).

Obviously, high-caliber guns would have the main benefit. It might be necessary to slightly reduce splash damage across the board in order to make the game balanced.

And what about to introduce alternate history? I mean, if you're playing with germans on a long campaign and if all battles against Allies in continent in 1940 are decisive victory, why don't go to some ficticious Seelöwe scenarios? Or, if playing with Japan, let you choose to attack USSR or US in 1941... Just my imagination, for I think this desire too much complex to do it with ease. And I respect too much the dedication of programmers to let them think that I'd be somewhat annoyed by SP:WaW. Thank you for all you've done, people!

I have read some excellent suggestions in the preceding posts and I thought I would add my thoughts on the subjects. I would personally like to see an expansion of available slots in the OOB databases to include open slots where you could add experimental weapons, i.e. US 155mm Mortar, German squeeze bore 7.5cm PAK, the longer 90mm guns installed on some of the prototypes of the M-26 series tanks, etc. I like to experiment with these types of weapons to see if they could have been effective on the battlefield. As it stands now I have to delete a normal weapon to add the experimental one. Also additional unit slots in the OOB would be very nice for things like Airborne Engineers, Task Organized Companies, RSO tractors mounting 7.5cm PAK's, and other vehicle types that were used as either field modified or built by a country but are not protrayed in the game.

I wouold love to see splash damage reduced some....seems units in the next hex take more casualties then units actually in the hex when arty hits.

ORIGINAL: Alby

I wouold love to see splash damage reduced some....seems units in the next hex take more casualties then units actually in the hex when arty hits.

I'll disagree on this one, Alby. The damage radius of 75mm artillery & 81mm mortars can be within 100 yards, if you include the effect of shrapnel. You catch infantry out in the open with an arty barrage, and it is murder. I've seen this stat repeated over & over again-- artillery was the primary killer on the battlefields of WWII, and I'd think that SPWaW should reflect this.

Given this, I WOULD like to see a reduction in the support artillery assets given to the AI forces. There's no realistic reason why an assaulting battalion, as part of an operation extending beyond the map's parameters, should be given the equivalent of a division's worth of arty assets.

Michael, are you listening? THIS is something that needs to be addressed. Human players can negotiate the amount of support assets -- the game's AI, though, uses every support point it gets, whether the human does or not. This is close to being a game killer for long-campaign players.

Let me break it down further -- most infantry battalions had maybe 4 to 6 medium/heavy mortars assigned to it. For off-board artillery support, they could usually call upon an artillery battalion's worth of assets, or perhaps two -- maybe 24 guns. That's it, plus perhaps a couple of ground-support planes, or in the case of an amphibious operation, perhaps a cruiser or a battleship, and a couple of destroyers. That is a hell of a lot of firepower, and these are conservative generalizations.

I agree with Alby, for the most part. I often hit the hexes next to a stubborn unit because shooting at the directly does little. Hitting the hex next to them geberates more casualties more often than not. I would not like to see the splash damage reduced per se, but redone so that a round hitting the same hex as an enemy unit does more damage to that hex than to surrounding hexes.


Goblin

well put, you put it better than I did [:D]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

I agree with Alby, for the most part. I often hit the hexes next to a stubborn unit because shooting at the directly does little. Hitting the hex next to them geberates more casualties more often than not. I would not like to see the splash damage reduced per se, but redone so that a round hitting the same hex as an enemy unit does more damage to that hex than to surrounding hexes.


Goblin

In this case, splash damage needs to be adjusted in relation to the hex of direct hit. The effects of aerial bombing are even more pronounced, having been the victim of it on rare occasions. Air power is a great asset, and it can make a huge difference. Domination of the air made possible the German blitzes of 1939-41, and the rapid Allied gains of 1944-45. Just consider the success of the German offensive in the Ardennes in the Battle of the Bulge. Once the air cleared, the Germans were stopped cold, and they were relentlessly pounded by Allied planes.

I've drummed upon this before, but the value of air power is really underestimated in this game. It can be your worst enemy, but it can also be your best friend.

The problem with 'splash damage' is that it occurs more frequently in adjacent hexes than in the target hex. Countless times I've watched an arty barrage land amongst known enemy infantry formations and have seen the casualty indication (the unit icon loses a man) in hexes next to the one the artillery round landed in. In fact, it is sometimes advantageous to plot an arty barrage, not on the enemy unit/formation, but a hex or two away, as it will cause more damage.

Splash damage should not occur in adjacent hexes unless an equal or greater amount of damage has been done to the unit in the same hex as the round. Suppression damage is fine; but actual casualty-causing results shouldn't.

Good news for you guys: I passed along the concerns about splash damage to Mike Wood, and he's gonna reduce it for the next mech.exe patch. [:)]

Reduce it, or reduce it in comparison to the targeted hex? Its almost impossible to hurt troops in an entrenchment unless you Z-fire at that hex, or a surrounding hex. More damage should be done to the target using direct fire than with splash. Maybe he should turn that up a little too...


Goblin

I see allot about smoke here, remember it’s a turn based game if smoke disappears rapidly one of the players is going to get hosed. If you want it to dissipate quicker then change the weather to make it happen.

whenever I blow smoke, someone always shoots me thru it anyway!! [:(]


[:D]