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T33 Axis cont...

Working along the line,seizing targets of opportunity, we land a further blow


Bosh, another 10K. Those 3 attacks dispatch 55,000 Soviets for the loss of less than 1,000 Germans. Winter is feeling a little less bleak now.


Even a cheeky little hasty to follow up on a previous attack ensures that the Soviet ID routs away.

All this (and more) leads to not a bad haul over the course of the Axis action phase


which when added to the Soviet turn must make a dent in that manpower build up


More good news is that our Romanian friends cavalry units are being upgrades from brigades to divisions. This somehow comes about by adding something like a extra 57 men and a couple of mortars. As a result they can now breakdown into regiments which is super handy for scouting and hex flipping. It's a shame that the Allies are restricted to only the south of the map.

i did not see such losses for a long time

well played JB!

T33 - Soviet Perspective


I don’t know if this is a documented rule or not but I’m convinced the Western TB is treated differently from the other TBs in that it is more likely to gain/gain/lose points based on requirements %. I was a bit unlucky losing VP points on 2 fronts this turn. Far East is still below 100% but that will change in 1-2 turns when rifle divisions arrive (they are at 0 TOE but set with 100% max so they will fill up and train in the east).


With the weather situation improving for Axis forces, a number of counterattacks were made on Soviet forces across the front. This loss screen is at the start of my turn so it includes the Axis ground phase (which inflicted 90k manpower losses on the Soviets) and my previous Soviet ground phase. My offensive across a broad front is largely over and any attacks I make now will be more localised as I need to prepare for the 1942 axis offensive.


I pull back the 55th army (orange) to straighten the line and remove a dangerous salient when Axis forces get their mobility back. There was no strategic reason to try and hold this ground any further. That area is also a supply desert and my units were losing a high proportion of freight that was being sent there (in addition to truck attrition).

T33 - Soviet Perspective Cont...


Whilst there is still 1 more month of winter, the initiative has changed back to Axis with the clearer weather. Reflecting on the last few turns of the game I am happy with the number of attacks I made and some of the progress made on map however I was unable to create any breakthroughs as JB did an awesome job of shifting his defences accordingly. I gained no VP points either although Axis is now further away from their 1942 VP points at least.

Around the Leningrad front I advanced 1-2 hexes across most of the front and was never expecting to have a breakthrough here given the resources I dedicated to it as well as the strong defensive terrain.

Around the Northwest Front, I advanced further than I had initially planned although it was through poorly supplied terrain. JB had to redeploy units from further north/south to hold this sector so whilst in isolation it may not have achieved much, it weakened the defence around Leningrad/Smolensk so I could make some successful attacks there.

I dedicated a lot of resources towards Smolensk during the winter including my two infantry guard corps divisions. I made good progress towards Velikie Luki and will hold favourable terrain over 1942. The line started near Vyzama so it’s good to be on the doors of Smolensk now. There was a lot of battles in the swamp hexes just east of Smolensk and JB and I traded control over those hexes a few times over Dec/Jan.

Along the AGC front, there was a lot of progress made in terms of land captured but not much in the way of strategic land held or weakening axis forces. Axis forces were lighter in this area owning to their concentration of units further south around Stalino. The frontline at the start of winter was close to Bryansk/Kursk/Kharkov but now it’s only 5-6 hexes from Gomel/Chernigov. It will be interesting to see what JB decides to do in this area as he can very easily advance if he sends more units to this front given the open terrain however that would weaken any advances he makes elsewhere. Either way, it’s good to be able to put some distance between the frontlines and the VP points he needs.

Lastly, around the southern bend, I was able to advance 10-20 hexes depending on different points in the line. The encirclement of Stalino was lifted and the frontline is now near D-town, Zaporozhye and Kremenchug.


This is the VP table as of the current turn. Losing Leningrad provided 36 VP points above the actual historic progress but at least partly offsetting that a number of other cities in AGC/AGS were not taking and when/if they do fall in 1942, there will be no bonus points. Looking ahead to 1942, I need to try and identify what the Axis strategy will be to obtain the highest possible HWM. My master plan of losing Leningrad in 1941 so that it limits the number of areas he can advance on in 1942 is playing out exactly as expected! (anyone buying that? ).

As Axis supply is much better in 1942, a Moscow push is a possibility although there will be no bonus VP from Rzhev, Kalinin.

A broad push around the centre is also a possibility with Orel/Kursk/Kharkov all relatively easy targets close to the front. From here Voronezh or even Tambov could be in play.

Lastly, there could be the historic push towards Stalingrad and/or the Caucasus. Stalino/Rostov will fall easily but at least bonus VP points are denied.

The fighting over winter has been intense on both sides and whilst I have sustained a lot of losses in man and material, Axis forces have also been worn down in some areas and will have a more challenging time refitting those units due to supply constraints. That being said, some of the weakened units will go to the TB when the Panzers come back onto the map so there’s no real issue in refitting those units anyway.


Due to the high volume of attacks of 1941 and the winter so far, I have 2 guard rifle corps, and a further 9 guard rifle divisions. I have a further 8 rifle divisions with +7 or more wins which will convert to guard status at some point. Similarly, 10% of my artillery is now guard status.

I am limited to 10% of my Infantry converting to Guards until Jun 1942 and based on my current guard numbers/high win units, I am on track to reaching that limit if all goes well. I’m expecting a further spike in guard unit conversions in Jun 42 when the new % increases to 25%

Veterin wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:19 pm T33 - Soviet Perspective


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I don’t know if this is a documented rule or not but I’m convinced the Western TB is treated differently from the other TBs in that it is more likely to gain/gain/lose points based on requirements %. I was a bit unlucky losing VP points on 2 fronts this turn. Far East is still below 100% but that will change in 1-2 turns when rifle divisions arrive (they are at 0 TOE but set with 100% max so they will fill up and train in the east).

I would hope it is as its a huge TB (CV requirement of around 300 IIRC). Its easy to over commit to in winter with all those excess panzers and fighters though.

T34 Axis

We note the Soviet build up around VL and rush reserves to bolster defences


In the south, the Russians pull back following last weeks mauling. As Corporal Jones (my go to guy for military advice) says 'they don't like it up 'em you know'


But they don't pull back quite enough, allowing me to continue with my series of tutorials - how to use the Axis minor allies: lesson 3 - supporting attacks


Here we throw in a Romanian elite formation , the mountain divisions to support the German offensive plus a bog standard ID. Presumably this negate the Soviet 'there is quality in quantity' and allows us the unusual situation of outnumbering the Soviets 2:1. Anyway, we end up with a nice result. We assured that the 1k casualties suffered by the Axis were almost exclusively Roms. JBs top tip, don't sell life insurance to Rom soldiers.

Zooming along to lesson 8, this screen shot allows us a good example of the Roms used as scouts (obviously don't be silly enough to do a hasty attack with them unless you enjoy unpleasant outcomes), but splitting them down into regiments easily allows the Axis to peer into the Soviet line and probing for weak spots without committing any useful troops (i.e. German). even if we don't attack, it forces the Soviets to employ divisions to flip back hexes.

T34 Soviet Perspective

Warning: a long update!


I have received bonus VP from my northern front which will at least offset the bonus Axis forces are getting from the Western TB (which they seem to get very frequently!). I’ve always had over 120% air in all the TB hexes but for most of the game so far my ground ratio has been low 90-95%. I now have over 120% in the Northern Front and will have that in Transcaucasus next turn too. Lets see how easy it is for Soviets to build up additional VP this way. I have the Far Eastern TB over 100% but I won’t push it higher as it has higher base CV requirements so getting the % up requires more units. These TBs effectively give me a “reserve” of units I can bring to map in 1942 as and when needed.


This is the OOB total forces charts. Axis Men/Guns continue to grow throughout winter mostly due to refitting of units in the TBs however on-map forces have also increased over this period. Axis AFV forces have recovered particularly well as they haven’t been used throughout winter and they are refitting in the Western TB. Soviet AFVs have dropped sharply mainly due to the changing of Tank Divisions to Tank Brigades. I have built an additional 10-20 tank brigades (can’t remember exact number) as well as 20 Motorised brigades so I can start creating some Tank Corps on Apr 1942. I have ample stocks of AFVs in the active pool so will keep building additional brigades when stockpiles get too large. I am waiting for my Tank Corps to be build to see how much “spare” AFVs I really have. I’ll need a good buffer as Soviet tanks explode on contact with Axis forces.

Axis AFVs in the TB are starting to drop and I can see more are “in transfer” so these units are starting to be moved back to the map to build up CPP for when the snow/mud is removed.

T34 Soviet Perspective Cont...


Whilst the intensity of battles so far this game isn’t showing on the OOB screen (with both soviet/axis forces growing over winter), I think it becomes more apparent when looking at the manpower screen. Axis manpower has started falling since late November which just shows the extent of how much refitting those TB/reserve units are doing. I can’t see a split of Axis manpower by country but the Axis Allies are in reasonable shape as I haven’t had the opportunity to smack them around (they’re always well protected!).


I know this is counter intuitive but my view is I have the initiative in the Leningrad sector. JB has very little to gain from advancing further in this sector he has all the VPs and he’ll just bleed attrition, supply and trucks by doing so. I on the other hand can determine how much strength I put into the front and when/where I choose to attack and he has to react as eventually at some point in the future, the threat will increase of me capturing Leningrad. If he weakens this sector too early, I will increase strength and push, if he is conservative and keeps a lot of defensive strength here, that weakens his other sectors for his 1942 offensive. My master plan of losing Leningrad in 1941 is brilliant!


No attacks this turn around Smolensk. The defensive CV is simply too high (even with the winter defensive penalty). There is a lot of Axis forces in the area including some of their elite units. I’ll keep an eye on if these get pulled back as if they remain in the area, Moscow might be the primary objective for 1942. I have a lot of my best troops in the area and I will continue to reinforce in some of the areas around Smolensk before the end of winter.


JB made a number of attacks in the centre/south last turn and inflicted some very favourable trades. The most advanced hex included some units that made attacks on me the previous turn so I thought I’d gang up on that stack. I attacked with 9 divisions and whilst it looked like a ~3:1 CV ratio before I entered battle, I only marginally won in part due to the VSS.

T34 Soviet Perspective Cont...


I have a lot of units on low TOE from the attack/counter attack so I sent 4 rifle divisions back to a deposit to refit and generally pull back units from both my blue and green armies.
Unlike 1941, Soviets can stand up to German infantry when they are in a weakened state (be it TOE, supply, ammo or CPP). These 4 counter attacks were mostly made on Axis infantry who attacked the previous turn and were all made on hexes with snow less than 8.

The 225th and 297th Infantry division in particular took some damage this round. These are the battles the 225th and 297th were involved in. The first is an Axis attack on my units with the following two being attacks I made during my turn. I know the “soft factor” toggle doesn’t always work with imperfect detection levels but it looks like these units are now very low on supply, high fatigue and any CPP would have been wiped too.

T34 Soviet Perspective Cont...

3 counter attacks are made on the Axis advance. The first one fails but the other 2 are successful. I was able to make use of my high CPP units in the area including 2 cavalry corps. I put reserve activations on to help with the attacks but only 1 division joined a battle. Most of my light green army is pulled back to refit on a deposit given Axis attacks did a lot of damage to them the previous turn. I sure am going to have a lot of on-map units requesting manpower this turn!

T34 Soviet Perspective Cont...


A very bloody turn for both sides. I’ve had to change some of my MIG-3 Aircraft into LaGG-3 as MIG-3 is no longer in production and I have used up all my pools following the fighting this turn. As the air around AGS is clear, my attacks included VSS support which is why the LW had a fun time shooting my aircraft out of the skies.

T35 Axis

We see the arrival of the new beta patch and immediately we see the effects


I suppose Hitler will want this daring somewhere and AGN will be a nice quiet sector following the fall of Leningrad. So it could have been worse. Admin of 7 is useful during winter, but otherwise this guy is just a turd with a moustache.

Unlike the weather, which is about to turn - blizzards again! So far this winter these past 3 weeks have been the only ones of limited blizzards, even so the Leningrad front continues to cop the snow.


We are used to blizzards at the front now, but this coming one looks to cover the whole of the Russia. This is going to be painful for our supply situation, time to raid the emergency stockpiles which are almost at critical levels.

We also test out the new CPP changes


Hmm, nice. Thankfully this feature has arrived for the 1942 campaign, sadly we didn't see it in 1941 (perhaps best that it didn't arrive in December )

Elsewhere, we occupy ourselves with targets of opportunty and lock ourselves down close to supply depots ahead of the coming storm (in the literal sense; I hope). We continue to work hard restoring our trucking situation.

T35 - Soviet Perspective

This turn was a relatively quiet one overall as am just preparing for the 1942 Axis offensive. My units need some much needed rest and refitting.

One change with the new beta was increased losses from passive attrition (damage/destruction of ground elements in units next to an enemy controlled hex). This sort of attrition has always impacted Soviets heaver than Axis given their moral/exp but I don’t remember ever seeing it this high. The screenshots above are the soviet/axis logistics phase only. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing but if I’m losing 40-45k manpower passively that’s going to hurt over time. Will keep an eye on this over the next few turns as there has been some intense combat recently so it could be more driven by that rather than passive attrition.


Another big drop in the Axis manpower pool this turn. Axis OOB keeps growing and Axis AFVs are starting to come back onto the map (668 in transit this turn). Whilst I think I’ve inflicted a lot of damage to Axis forces throughout the winter, I have sustained high losses myself and my on-map units has dipped below the 5m mark again. I have some transfers arriving to the map next turn and will pull a few additional units out of the TB.

Veterin wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:14 pm T35 - Soviet Perspective

One change with the new beta was increased losses from passive attrition (damage/destruction of ground elements in units next to an enemy controlled hex). This sort of attrition has always impacted Soviets heaver than Axis given their moral/exp but I don’t remember ever seeing it this high. The screenshots above are the soviet/axis logistics phase only. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing but if I’m losing 40-45k manpower passively that’s going to hurt over time. Will keep an eye on this over the next few turns as there has been some intense combat recently so it could be more driven by that rather than passive attrition.

The best way to see your and the axis attrition losses are using this screen and selecting the respective losses during the logistics phase. I think not all the losses in this phase are from attrition but the vast majority are.

In my current game at turn nine started under the new patch I think my Russian logistics losses were around 45K and the Axis 20K.

The picture below is not from a real game.

Keitel is actually the best OKH leader because of his political rating. It makes replacing leaders dirt cheap when the HQ is assigned directly to OKH.

We added some more visibility to the front line attrition in a version I'm working with. I took a look at an AI test game on turn 35 and of the 25k total losses in the soviet logistics phase, about 5k came from front line attrition. But in early 43 and 44, I looked at turns where half or more was from front line attrition. So it's hard to say on any given turn how much is caused by front-line attrition. It that test game, 22% of Soviet losses were front line attrition while Axis had about 13% from front line attrition. With this added visibility we are now able to see the true impact, and we do think we overshot the mark a bit, so we are testing out some changes that will bring it back down some. Thanks for the AAR and info.

This reference may be useful, though on a fast look the data are not from the Eastern Front.

PERSONNEL ATTRITION RATES IN HISTORICAL LAND COMBAT OPERATIONS

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA308506.pdf


In this table and in WW2, the % of non battle deaths is roughly 15-30% while battle deaths are 70-85%. Very interesting how is changing along the years.

Though this losses must be also in the rear, not only in the front.




However for the german army in this link (there is a lot of stuff here).

https://web.archive.org/web/20161109211 ... r_wvw.html


Total Wehrmacht Losses, 1.9.39-31.12.44

Total deaths 1865324 of which by enemy action 1776889, that is 95,26% so attrition deaths only 4,74%. I guess non deaths % should be much higher.



And some data from Krivosheev (if they are correct )

7385100 deaths (not counting dead POWs) and 555500 of them of non combat causes, so 7,52% of non combat deaths for the Soviet Army.

Interesting chart. This shows there's a decent number of deaths not even having to do with combat. The front-line attrition deals with this plus losses due to low intensity combat (artillery shelling, patrols).

Joel Billings wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:34 pm We added some more visibility to the front line attrition in a version I'm working with. I took a look at an AI test game on turn 35 and of the 25k total losses in the soviet logistics phase, about 5k came from front line attrition. But in early 43 and 44, I looked at turns where half or more was from front line attrition. So it's hard to say on any given turn how much is caused by front-line attrition. It that test game, 22% of Soviet losses were front line attrition while Axis had about 13% from front line attrition. With this added visibility we are now able to see the true impact, and we do think we overshot the mark a bit, so we are testing out some changes that will bring it back down some. Thanks for the AAR and info.

Thanks Joel. The game is now in turn 45 so we've got a lot more data now and attrition losses to seem a lot more reasonable now. There has been virtually no combat the last 2 turns so Soviet losses in logistics phase is a lot lower. This would imply the losses i was seeing was more in relation to the standard logistics process rather than passive attrition losses.

When i first saw logistic losses above 40k i was just worried that was caused by the changes and i thought the Soviet army would be shrinking in 44 even without combat! Glad that's not the case.

Jango32 wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:53 pm Keitel is actually the best OKH leader because of his political rating. It makes replacing leaders dirt cheap when the HQ is assigned directly to OKH.

Good point, thanks