Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Does anyone understand this ? An example would be helpful
What are the chances say of a unit passing this test if it has 12MPs and requires 11MPs commit.

Also, I am not sure but I think I have had examples where units activate when they don't have enough MPs to move adjacent to the opponent and execute a deliberate attack when that attack has been across a river. Could it be that the MPs to commit are calculated in a different way to movement on the map.

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Does anyone understand this ? An example would be helpful
What are the chances say of a unit passing this test if it has 12MPs and requires 11MPs commit.

Also, I am not sure but I think I have had examples where units activate when they don't have enough MPs to move adjacent to the opponent and execute a deliberate attack when that attack has been across a river. Could it be that the MPs to commit are calculated in a different way to movement on the map.

I believe I understand this but we need someone like "Loki the Jedi Master of WITE2 rules" to confirm

I think you'll need Joel for this one

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

ORIGINAL: tyronec

I think you'll need Joel for this one

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

ORIGINAL: tyronec

I think you'll need Joel for this one

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: tyronec

I think you'll need Joel for this one

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

Oddly, I think (c) is relatively straightforward (but utterly impossible to test).

So eg1:

Activating unit has 20 MP and would expend 10 to get to the battle.

We roll 2 dice, for the base MP the outcome is 1-20, for the move MP the outcome is 1-10, if the 'move' roll is => 'base' roll the reaction is cancelled. The maths are a bit of a pain, but I'd say that won't happen in much over 15% of instances (you have the trail of base rolls > 10 as an insurance)

eg2

Activating unit has 6 MP and would expend 4 to get to the battle.

So the base roll comes out 1-6, the move roll 1-4, again the maths are a pain to do in detail but I'd say you are looking at a 40% failure rate (you still have a safefy net but clearly the chance of failing goes up a lot)

I could well be horribly wrong, but that is what I think goes on.

So put it together and a well led unit with lots of MP and close to the battle is very likely to pile in (remember that the initiative leader value is hit by command chain penalties). Something 10 or so MP away becomes vulnerable to the vagaries of (c)

ORIGINAL: jubjub

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: tyronec


Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

Oddly, I think (c) is relatively straightforward (but utterly impossible to test).

So eg1:

Activating unit has 20 MP and would expend 10 to get to the battle.

We roll 2 dice, for the base MP the outcome is 1-20, for the move MP the outcome is 1-10, if the 'move' roll is => 'base' roll the reaction is cancelled. The maths are a bit of a pain, but I'd say that won't happen in much over 15% of instances (you have the trail of base rolls > 10 as an insurance)

eg2

Activating unit has 6 MP and would expend 4 to get to the battle.

So the base roll comes out 1-6, the move roll 1-4, again the maths are a pain to do in detail but I'd say you are looking at a 40% failure rate (you still have a safefy net but clearly the chance of failing goes up a lot)

I could well be horribly wrong, but that is what I think goes on.

So put it together and a well led unit with lots of MP and close to the battle is very likely to pile in (remember that the initiative leader value is hit by command chain penalties). Something 10 or so MP away becomes vulnerable to the vagaries of (c)

Interesting, I've never seen a unit activate through ZOC, so it seems like the extra MP cost really lowers the odds of an activation, especially from infantry units.