Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: wpurdom

Tell us more about this Stalingrad fortress - something crafted by the player or appearing automatically?

You can create them in urban or port hexes, essentially it allows overstacking. There are no secondary advantages (ie they don't create better fortifications) and it takes a little bit of advance planning.

To be useful, as the Soviets you need to be able to assign 5/6+ divisions to the hex, as the Germans 4+. The pay off is you make taking such a hex by direct assault a brutal costly business, the flip side is you risk encirclement.

Handy tricks, the city fort counter claims one stacking place in the hex so you can team with a fortified zone (that does build fortifications more quickly) or a couple of formations outside the fort (which can then be used for counter-attacks etc).

For the Germans, v useful come 1944+ when you want to delay the fall of what will be a key rail junction, can really tie up substantial Soviet forces.

Uhm, so are units in the fortress permanently tied to the fortress? Or can they somehow be released from it again, with a delay or some cost...

In loki100's post "T57 - 1/29/2021 8:31:58 AM" The units in the Stalingrad fortress have a <detach> click it looks like. I'm guessing, yes, you can move units in and out of fortress's.

Apologies for no links, I'm too much of a rookie apparently...

ORIGINAL: Mahrgell

Uhm, so are units in the fortress permanently tied to the fortress? Or can they somehow be released from it again, with a delay or some cost...

ORIGINAL: DekeFentle

In loki100's post "T57 - 1/29/2021 8:31:58 AM" The units in the Stalingrad fortress have a <detach> click it looks like. I'm guessing, yes, you can move units in and out of fortress's.

Apologies for no links, I'm too much of a rookie apparently...

DekeFentle is right, you can add/remove as you wish, if you remove the last Combat unit then you can retain the fort as a notional shell or disband it altogether

as above - it has no intrinsic value beyond the units allocated to it as a means to sidestep the usual 3 units in a hex/stacking rule

ORIGINAL: loki100
Handy tricks, the city fort counter claims one stacking place in the hex so you can team with a fortified zone (that does build fortifications more quickly) or a couple of formations outside the fort (which can then be used for counter-attacks etc).

This is the post that caused my confusion.
Why is it handy to have formations outside the fort to counterattacks, when you can just charge out with everything at any time anyway.

Or: Is there any strategic benefit to ever having a division not being part of the fortress, when there is a fortress in the hex? The quoted post makes it sound like it, but from your clarification I don't see it.

ORIGINAL: Mahrgell

ORIGINAL: loki100
Handy tricks, the city fort counter claims one stacking place in the hex so you can team with a fortified zone (that does build fortifications more quickly) or a couple of formations outside the fort (which can then be used for counter-attacks etc).

This is the post that caused my confusion.
Why is it handy to have formations outside the fort to counterattacks, when you can just charge out with everything at any time anyway.

Or: Is there any strategic benefit to ever having a division not being part of the fortress, when there is a fortress in the hex? The quoted post makes it sound like it, but from your clarification I don't see it.

To enter a city fort you need all your MP for the turn, so you can't move and then enter you must be in the hex or adjacent. When you exit, its a similar cost.

So you can't come out, attack, return. So one option is the city fort (say with 6 divisions) and a couple in the hex outside the fort. Those 2 are easier to rotate (say if they start to pick up losses) or use for localised counter-attacks.

29 August 1942

This update is based on the end of T62

Background

SW Front’s offensive in mid-July had the effect of diverting the German pressure on Stalingrad but the cost was SW Front being forced back to its starting lines by the start of August. Up to 15 August, the Stalingrad sector slipped into a relative stalemate as the Germans probed the defensive lines in the city and traded blows with SW Front.

At the same time, Western Front renewed its offensive around Orel briefly achieving a breakthrough even as AGC renewed its attempts to recapture Vyazma.



Mid-August saw a shift in German tactics as they tried to storm the southern portion of the city



[1]

T62

The end of August saw the German offensive at Stalingrad simplify into a direct assault on the city and an attempt to force the Volga. SW Front was again driven back and lacked the means to intervene in the battle.



Around Orel, Western Front was now engaged in an attempt to reduce the German salient to the west of the city that had been created during their counter-stroke to the mid-August offensive.



In the Caucasus, the Germans increase their pressure on the port of Tuapse but their offensive towards Grozny has stalled.



Overall, I’d characterise these six turns as a mobile stalemate. The AI made small gains around Vyazma and attacks every 3-4 turns looking to gain more but I am strong enough to fend that off. The sector around Orel sees impressive Soviet gains turn into a quick retreat. Even worse, in the turn when I stripped the flanks to reinforce the breakthrough, the AI simply swatted aside my weakened front and generated a very nasty salient.

Stalingrad, as may be clear, has its own pattern. The AI experiments with variants of head on assaults and trying to cross the Volga (it has come close to that a few times). SW Front attacks, is thrown back and then forced to pull out those formations for refit.

What is different is I am now winning the refit battle. They are dependent on a single track rail from around Rostov, I have two sources of replacements. SW Front can send battered formations towards Saratov (an NSS). Stalingrad Front remains reliant on either using the National Reserve or merging Rifle Brigades, but I now have a steady flow of units being pulled out and units returning. I also now have a super-depot functioning NE of Stalingrad - which gives me a limited but local source of capacity to refit weakened units.

My assumption was now that Stalingrad will hold, so started to think about where to counter-attack when the weather turns or the Germans start to weaken.

I’m still paying a high price for this relative stalemate:



Especially for the VVS where my losses in pilots far exceeds my ability to train new ones.



To explore that in more detail, here is one of the actions around Orel. As with the Stalingrad action above, I pay a high price for any contested action, but Ground Support can be a real battle winner (as we will see later in reverse). So I can’t just let the LW have its way.



Few things worth noting in there. If you are used to WiTW, then note that air combat tends to happen at around 9,000’ not the 15,000’+ common in the West. That reflects both sides doctrines and generally the lower concentrations of flak – it also plays to the strength of Soviet fighter design.

Both sides drew their fighters from automatic interceptions (Patrol) not direct escorts, since these are fighters looking for tactical advantage they enter the battlefield much higher than the bombing missions.

Finally, and this you are stuck with, the German fighter pilots have skill ratings in the 90s, my better ones are in the 60s.

The only solution for a Soviet player is to slowly kill off this elite cadre (helped as more and more of the LW is drawn to the West from 1943 onwards).

Even though I won the ground action with some ease, the German bombers destroyed 24 elements and disrupted or damaged 61 more, in a closer action that could have made all the difference.

Finally, the OOB, I am winning (as you would expect) the build up, even if I am not really weakening the Axis numbers.



[1] As mentioned a few times, I find using the Rifle Brigades as SU directly attached to Combat Units by far their best role (when I am not using them as emergency reinforcements). As you can see there from the CV values, they are compensating for my weakened Rifle Corps.

In the battle reports, there is a number in parenthesis next to the number of fighters commmitted by the attacker. Is this something new to WitE 2? I can't remember that it was present in WitW.

ORIGINAL: Kronolog

In the battle reports, there is a number in parenthesis next to the number of fighters commmitted by the attacker. Is this something new to WitE 2? I can't remember that it was present in WitW.

*hastily runs a search on the draft manual*

If there are possible escorts that could only partly cover the mission then they are shown as say 30(10), so 30 fighters escorted the raid but 10 couldn't actually cover all the way to the target hex. You are more likely to see that crop up around ground attack or strategic bombing style missions (as the battle report lay out is effectively the same for purely air-air or air-ground combats).

Its unlikely to crop up in GS as such as the mission allocation is based on being able to reach the combat hex in the first place (though there is some interaction between air superiority missions and the flight path).

So yes, its been added since WiTW.

Oh, please don't tell me we are going to be responsible for setting air group altitudes ala WitP. This was something that should have been abstracted.

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

Oh, please don't tell me we are going to be responsible for setting air group altitudes ala WitP. This was something that should have been abstracted.

as in WiTW you can interact with the air war in lots of ways, at one set broad directions and the AI does it for you at the other fiddle around with the load outs of each air group for that particular mission.

But the 9,000' is set as the default for most missions and works well for most missions.

We'll do a 'showcase' on the various AI assists in the game that can simplify a lot of routines.

I've never played WiTP so don't know the system there, but in the main WiTW gives you a better read across to WiTE2 (& even then there are a lot of differences)

No its nothing like WitP. For the most cases you set up at the game start the mission altitude for all types(eg. GS 9000, ground attack 5000, superiority 15000 etc.) and leave it be. You still can change altitude for any air directive if you wish(but you set it per air directive not per group). So yes it is abstracted, at least compared to WitP where you set for every group separately.

ORIGINAL: loki100

I've never played WiTP

[:-]

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

ORIGINAL: loki100

I've never played WiTP

[:-]

ach. I'm really rubbish at naval operations. I mean I managed to sink the Austrian fleet when playing Rise of Prussia (and it was sailing up the Danube not the Elbe with all those nasty forts).

7 November 1942

This update is based on the end of T72

Background

September saw the Germans regain the initiative around Orel as the Soviets struggled to stall their renewed offensive.



At the same time, they struck back around Stalingrad eliminating most of the recent Soviet gains north and south of the city.

By 15 September, Western Front managed to bring the offensive to a halt in heavy fighting but the Germans retained the initiative around Stalingrad. In response, SW Front again committed itself to a local offensive and by 26 September had thrown the Germans back from their positions outside Stalingrad itself.



Slowly the initiative started to change hands. By 3 October, Orel was back in Soviet hands and by 10 October the German rail hub at Chir was briefly occupied by Soviet tanks before a counter-attack restored their line of communications.

The start of the autumn rains from 11 October saw the front lines stall until the ground froze on 1 November.

T72

1 November saw the initiative decisively shift at Stalingrad. Fearing the build up of Soviet forces the Germans started to pull back over the Don. At Stalingrad itself, the Don and Stalingrad Fronts followed up while the Voronezh Front attacked along the northern arm of the Don.




In the Caucasus, the Axis forces started to pull back. For the first time in many months, Kalinin and Volkhov Fronts made limited gains as the Axis forces on their respective sectors had been weakened to support the German offensive around Orel.

Of more importance was the decision to shift SW Front from the Stalingrad battles to support an offensive aimed at Kharkov or Stalino.



This is the first big decision I have made in a lot of turns. My logic is the chance for a big Stalingrad pocket has just been lost (in effect E-Adolf can read a map better than his original) so if I used SW Front at Stalingrad I’d end up strangling my offensive with supply problems. As ever it is that single track rail from the Donets to Chir that causes problems for the side trying to use it.

The formations still at Stalingrad have enough combat power and mobility to take advantage of the AI’s retreat and surround a few slower moving units.

The advantage on the middle Don around Voronezh is that there are 2 dual track lines running to that sector and then a number of lines (mostly N-S but some E-W) to support my most powerful formation (at least in terms of armour). I wasn’t sure at this stage if I was going to attack west towards Kursk-Belgorod-Kharkov or south towards Stalino.

Moving an entire front is a costly business.



In effect, all those red rail lines mean I have maxed out both rail line usage and local rail yard capacity. I’ve moved the armour by rail, the bulk of the infantry have to march (easier done with frozen ground than once the snow builds up).

Even worse, that excess rail usage does not clear in one turn. It will disrupt my supplies for 3-4 turns, especially as it will take me a while to complete the redeployment. Now I’d been thinking of this redeployment since August so have been developing the depot network on this sector for some turns. Not shown but the sector directly behind and to the north of Voronezh is particularly depot rich. So while I am now making a mess of bringing in fresh freight, I have ensured the local network is well stocked.

In part to allow it to recover from the recent fighting around Orel, and in part so as not to place any more stress on my rail network, Western Front is firmly on the defensive for now.

A slightly different view on the OOB.



Here, you can see how many men and guns I have at my various airbases and this allocation is all done automatically, no need (as in WiTW) to worry about setting airbase TOEs, how many are being moved between Theatres and my commitment to the other theatres (I have sent a few extra units to the Northern Theatre).

The more conventional view reinforces just how tank heavy SW Front is.



You can break that down even more, so:



Click on say 12 Guards Tank Corps and that will take you to the map and the detailed unit tab.



One reason for using rails to move these units is to avoid fatigue and damaged elements.
And losses to this stage:



Note the Germans are seeing a substantial flow of disabled men returning to their units.

27 December 1942

This update is based on the end of T79

Background

Up to the middle of November, a degree of calm settled over the front. The Germans managed a careful retreat in the south, fending off Soviet attempts to cut off their rearguards. Central and Voronezh Fronts made small gains over the Don and by 28 November had advanced 30 miles west, creating a deployment zone for SW Front [1].

In the far south, elements of the Trans-Caucasus Front had reached the outskirts of Novorossiysk.

Perhaps under-estimating Soviet intentions, the Germans struck back around Orel disrupting the build up on that sector but also drawing off their own reserves to the south.




Lacking local reserves, and mostly reliant on Italian, Hungarian and Rumanian formations, between 6 and 13 December, the German defence fell apart as SW Front exploited up to 50 miles into the rear.




The situation steadily worsened as the Germans tried to slow the Soviet offensive with forces drawn from other sectors. By 19 December, Soviet spearheads were on the outskirts of Kharkov and the Axis forces fighting Stalingrad and Don Fronts were at risk of being encircled.



[2]

T79

The whole of the front from Voronezh to Leningrad has been static during those events. In the far north, this reflects that the two sides are evenly matched. For Western and Bryansk Front it is due to a build up. I don’t want to put too many demands on what is still a fragile supply net and equally I am prepared to wait for the Germans to respond to the breakthrough at Kharkov.


[3]

Anyway, lets skip to the far south.



I have massive supply problems. The Caucasus Front has 1 more army left well to the rear and has just sent another army to the National Reserve.
Things are not much better approaching Rostov.



As with the other formations, both Don and Stalingrad Fronts have armies held back in deep reserve. The situation won’t radically improve till I link up the N-S dual rails. One good thing though is that the AI has similar problems.

In turn, SW Front is running out of steam. A German counter-attack cut off the 2 advanced Tank Corps, so decided to let them sit still this turn. I really need to pull the tanks out of the line to rest but lack infantry as Voronezh Front is caught up on the northern flank of Stalingrad Front.



Comments

As mentioned before, the cost and what you can build varies across the game. As does the limit for certain unit types (so the start of 1943 will close off the option to build more Rifle Divisions or Brigades).



I’ve been in no hurry to created Mechanized Corps. I find late 1942-mid 1943 a period when the Soviets hit a truck shortage till the benefits of the increased LL supply make a difference. My units on average have 85% of the trucks they need and a Mech Corps demands around 2,800 trucks to be fully mobile.

This is down to 2 problems. First, I do have (and need) far more armour than I had in early 1942 and second, my supply lines in the south are horribly stretched. That in turn is why all the northern and central sector of the front is sat still with full depots only a few miles behind the front line. Even on my static sectors, my mobile formations are stuck with MP in the mid-30s.



Especially as the snow levels build up that is not enough to really exploit a breakthrough.

I am also (and many of you will recognise this issue from WiTE1) being cautious about building Corps. I still need a lot of divisions to fill out the long front lines.

So either on-map or in the reserve I currently have 69 Corps. 24 Tank (13 are Guards), 1 Mech, 14 Cavalry (12 Guards) and 30 Rifle (29 are Guards).

On the subject of Guards status:



The maximum % in each category will increase in 1943.

[1] Its not just the time to move, its letting my supply net recover from being pushed to the limits. Want the local depots to fill up so that my armour regain their MP as opposed to losing a lot as their trucks are scattered around trying to find supply and ammunition. If I had attacked immediately, I would have struggled to exploit the breakthrough and would almost immediately be in supply problems.

[2] Pushing that deep was a huge gamble, but I decided I had the brigades to rebuild those two Corps if I lost them. The reward is that has made a huge mess in the Axis rail net and effectively split the formations around Orel from those in the south.

[3] One thing to note there is even at this stage how powerful well rested Gds Rifle Corps are. It is relatively easy to get them to 40-45 CV so a stack can be well over 100. With the 1943 TOE this becomes even more impressive, with the 1944 TOE (& on average higher Soviet morale), you can stack near 200 CV if they are fully rested. That, plus artillery divisions and air support, will dismantle any defensive line.

I'm guessing the snowflakes are the weather overlay, they can be turned off too?

Seems like unique snowflakes are not allowed in Soviet Russia, the background seems a bit monotonous

ORIGINAL: Nix77

I'm guessing the snowflakes are the weather overlay, they can be turned off too?

Seems like unique snowflakes are not allowed in Soviet Russia, the background seems a bit monotonous

yes, you have air/ground shown (my usual choice), air only (prob not much use as most of your air commitment is to GS), ground only or neither (so you have the summer map on display).

As with so much else it becomes a matter of choice. If the conditions are regular blizzards I sometimes just have ground simply to keep an eye on a few things. Towards the end of winter I may flip it off when planning, so that I am sure where the rivers are when I'm thinking of what sort of logistics network I want/can sustain in the spring muds but also where I might be able to create a useful bridgehead

Just going back to the previous update - that pre-emptive retreat in front of Stalingrad is a big step forward for the AI I think? The WITE AI in particular has a habit of waiting for everything to go wrong before bolting the stable door and retreating. Is the Soviet AI in 41/42 similarly able to keep itself out of the worst trouble?

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Just going back to the previous update - that pre-emptive retreat in front of Stalingrad is a big step forward for the AI I think? The WITE AI in particular has a habit of waiting for everything to go wrong before bolting the stable door and retreating. Is the Soviet AI in 41/42 similarly able to keep itself out of the worst trouble?

agree - overall the AI now is good. This game picked up a number of issues that were easy to miss in the AI-AI games (these are what we've mostly relied on for complete game balance information for obvious reasons) and have been sorted out now. But overall, my view was it played the big decisions pretty well, and it puts together reasonably effective operations (it attacks at spots not randomly along the front, it is more flank aware etc), its still not great at individual placement/use of terrain/HQ structures but all that is very hard in a game of this complexity and with what makes sense shifting across the game.

It also helps having 2 good mid/late war scenarios in Stalingrad-Berlin and Vistula-Berlin, that is useful to explore how it responds to that sort of situation