Matrix Games Forums

Yes, low ID numbers help air groups go first in a turn. This can lead to interesting shenanigans.

https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 6#p3577886

first of all, it's great guide, I somehow missed it until now, but:

Sweeps, recon, search and ASW missions do not use coordination however sweeps and recons can accompany other
raids but do not affect them. If you time it right based mainly on cruise speed and range and then you can get a sweep
to arrive before the raid and recon to arrive after. Other factors do apply such as climb rate and altitude

maybe it's just that wording in misleading, but sweeps themselves do use coordination mechanics

Note: The manual states (7.0.1) ‘...it is possible to order specialized Allied Fighter units to perform “Tac
Recon”. This is implies that fighters with cameras, but it’s rubbish. There is no such thing as a ‘Tac
Recon’ mission, plus fighters cannot fly recon missions anyway. It should read something like ‘These ac
will take photos during any other mission type they take part in.’.

this one needs clarification:
1. 'Tac recon' is performed when bombing, and bombing is a mission possible to do for fighters, and especially fighter-bombers, thus the manual is correct, maybe wording is not the best,
2. Some fighters have camera, and these can successfully perform recon missions and train fighter pilots in recon skill, however useless it may be

I have just skimmed through, have to read more carefully when I have time.

Sweeps
I'll state now that I have never seen a sweep go in with a raid. I have checked through my archive reports and have been monitoring this for sometime now. Mostly they sweep beforehand but there's no way to ensure this happens that I have found.

Air coordination is referring to air raids. Sweeps, recon etc do not coordinate with them nor anything else that I have seen, even if you set the same height. If you watch the combat animation or view combat reports sweeps are always separate.

They can fly to the same target as the raid but when they go in is a lottery. I have found no way to ensure that a sweep occurs first. I think you can improve the odds by having the sweeping group closer than the raid but like most things in the game chance plays a big part.

Tac Recon
The note is referring to the staement in the manual on page 150. You cannot order an airgroup to carry out a 'Tac Recon', there's no such thing. You can order a recon mission but fighters cannot perform recon missions.

What does happen is none recon aircraft with a camera carrying out offensive missions will take photos while carrying out the attack. This is not the same as giving them a dedicated recon mission.

In the Air guide if you look at the notes under Recon missions it says...

'There are some other aircraft types that have a cameras, such as the Sonia, Wildcat 3P etc. These are not recon ac. They perform ‘tac recon’ when accompanying a raid (7.0.1).'

Hope this clarifies things for you.

Chris21wen wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2025 11:01 am Sweeps
I'll state now that I have never seen a sweep go in with a raid. I have checked through my archive reports and have been monitoring this for sometime now. Mostly they sweep beforehand but there's no way to ensure this happens that I have found.

Air coordination is referring to air raids. Sweeps, recon etc do not coordinate with them nor anything else that I have seen, even if you set the same height. If you watch the combat animation or view combat reports sweeps are always separate.

They can fly to the same target as the raid but when they go in is a lottery. I have found no way to ensure that a sweep occurs first. I think you can improve the odds by having the sweeping group closer than the raid but like most things in the game chance plays a big part.

that is not what I meant.... I mean sweeps are another kind of raid, there are sweeps, there are bombing raids... both have coordination applied, but they are done idependently

Tac Recon
The note is referring to the staement in the manual on page 150. You cannot order an airgroup to carry out a 'Tac Recon', there's no such thing. You can order a recon mission but fighters cannot perform recon missions.

What does happen is none recon aircraft with a camera carrying out offensive missions will take photos while carrying out the attack. This is not the same as giving them a dedicated recon mission.

In the Air guide if you look at the notes under Recon missions it says...

'There are some other aircraft types that have a cameras, such as the Sonia, Wildcat 3P etc. These are not recon ac. They perform ‘tac recon’ when accompanying a raid (7.0.1).'

Hope this clarifies things for you.

that is not correct, fighters with camera can perform recon missions and training, fighters without camera cannot.

The USAAF has fighter squadrons with cameras installed (F6D, for example, designated as "F", not "Recon" in the game) and the Commonwealth has fighter-bomber squadrons similarly equipped - all of which can be assigned to Recon missions.

szmike wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2025 2:19 pm that is not what I meant.... I mean sweeps are another kind of raid, there are sweeps, there are bombing raids... both have coordination applied, but they are done idependently

What does a sweep coordinate with? I've tried numerous time to get a sweeps to coordinate with other raids but failed. They only ever go in on their own.

szmike wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2025 2:19 pm that is not correct, fighters with camera can perform recon missions and training, fighters without camera cannot.

I'm going to have to take humble pie here, yes they can fly recon mission with a camera, not sure why I missed it but irrelevant.

I've corrected the manual but not pubished it yet. It now says this...
Note: The manual states (7.0.1) ‘...it is possible to order specialized Allied Fighter units to perform “Tac Recon”'. There is no such thing as a ‘Tac Recon’, just recon missions. It should read something like ‘Aircraft with cameras will carry out 'Tac recon' during any other mission type they take part in.’

One additional tidbit to manual about Drop Tanks.

While (as per manual) they cause 2x supply consumption and additional AV (air support) demands on land, they have no detrimental effect on carriers.

When equipping carrier's fighters with drop tanks, they don't consume sorties or any ordnance. Thus should be beneficial to use them all the time especially on Allied carriers. E.g. SBDs and Avengers easily outrange their F4F escorts, which is bad thing with offensive missions. Drop tanks will be mitigate that (when available).

I have not checked if they cause extra fatigue to pilots, which would be logical, considering that manual states using drop tanks puts planes on "extended mission".

See manual section 7.2.1.6.4 COSTS OF LONGER RANGE MISSIONS

Chris21wen wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 7:22 am

szmike wrote: Fri Sep 12, 2025 2:19 pm that is not what I meant.... I mean sweeps are another kind of raid, there are sweeps, there are bombing raids... both have coordination applied, but they are done idependently

What does a sweep coordinate with? I've tried numerous time to get a sweeps to coordinate with other raids but failed. They only ever go in on their own.

this is clear miscommunication... yes, they don't fly together... also yes, sweeps coordinate with each other, but not with bombing raids. I hope I made myself clear now

Sometimes sweep doesn't even coordinate with itself, leading to annoying incidents when couple of stragglers arrive after main sweep...

Sardaukar wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 3:41 pm Sometimes sweep doesn't even coordinate with itself, leading to annoying incidents when couple of stragglers arrive after main sweep...

it's subject to rolls.... I've never managed to roll 50+ plane strike when sweeping, even starting in the same base, air HQ, lvl9 field, 100k supplies...

szmike wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 5:11 pm

Sardaukar wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 3:41 pm Sometimes sweep doesn't even coordinate with itself, leading to annoying incidents when couple of stragglers arrive after main sweep...

it's subject to rolls.... I've never managed to roll 50+ plane strike when sweeping, even starting in the same base, air HQ, lvl9 field, 100k supplies...

I have had incidents when sweeping with only one squadron and even they get fragmented...

Bad rolls with squadron leader, I guess. I just wonder if it's Leadership roll or Air Skill roll...or what roll...

Sardaukar wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 7:53 am One additional tidbit to manual about Drop Tanks.

While (as per manual) they cause 2x supply consumption and additional AV (air support) demands on land, they have no detrimental effect on carriers.

When equipping carrier's fighters with drop tanks, they don't consume sorties or any ordnance. Thus should be beneficial to use them all the time especially on Allied carriers. E.g. SBDs and Avengers easily outrange their F4F escorts, which is bad thing with offensive missions. Drop tanks will be mitigate that (when available).

I have not checked if they cause extra fatigue to pilots, which would be logical, considering that manual states using drop tanks puts planes on "extended mission".

See manual section 7.2.1.6.4 COSTS OF LONGER RANGE MISSIONS

Not noticed that but will check etc.

New update see first post. Stuff tweaked and added include:

Drop Tanks on ships, they cost nothing.

Mission order. Don't know how it's decided but it's not by group number nor the order they are created. It might start like that but the longer the scenario goes on the more it gets confused.

Experience increases fastest under General Training. Reason is general training tends to increase the lowest skill first and low skills increase faster than high skill. You should still train in skills first however, only switching to GT when the appropriate skill get above 60.

Nav search important clarification here. Carried out a long test for this after reading something on the forum. The important points are:
There is no automatic TF detection except for surface TFs in the same hex and even then they can fail to detect.
Only Nav and ASW search will find a TF. All the usual stuff helps, range, height numbers etc.

Auto detection does not exist between a base and TF no matter how big the base is or how many units are staion there. The only way to detect a TF is to fly a Nav or ASW search or to bump into it with another TF.

Let me know of corrections you may have.

I believe docked TFs can only be detected by Recon rather than NavS. They become part of the Port like anchored (non-TF) ships.

BBfanboy wrote: Tue Sep 23, 2025 3:15 pm I believe docked TFs can only be detected by Recon rather than NavS. They become part of the Port like anchored (non-TF) ships.

Admit I've never checked that, but possible. I'll look see.

BBfanboy wrote: Tue Sep 23, 2025 3:15 pm I believe docked TFs can only be detected by Recon rather than NavS. They become part of the Port like anchored (non-TF) ships.

I've check this and TF can be detected by navS when docked. I also found out that recon can find TF as well but only if they are in the target base. You cannot recon a TF it has to be the base.

Updated the guide. Download on first post of this thread.

Mostly just clarifications but the top two are more significant.

Air Replenishment units
Searches
Ac types on ships
Rearming sorties
Returning air units have any pemanent restrictions removed.
Random on the job training doesn't occur for those set to rest.

It's dated 25th Dec so have a good Christmas all.

Chris21wen wrote: Sat Dec 20, 2025 1:52 pm

BBfanboy wrote: Tue Sep 23, 2025 3:15 pm I believe docked TFs can only be detected by Recon rather than NavS. They become part of the Port like anchored (non-TF) ships.

I've check this and TF can be detected by navS when docked. I also found out that recon can find TF as well but only if they are in the target base. You cannot recon a TF it has to be the base.

Thanks for testing that Chris. Doesn't make sense to me that a docked TF is considered 'at sea' rather than attached to the port like anchored ships.

BBfanboy wrote: Sat Dec 20, 2025 6:38 pm

Chris21wen wrote: Sat Dec 20, 2025 1:52 pm

BBfanboy wrote: Tue Sep 23, 2025 3:15 pm I believe docked TFs can only be detected by Recon rather than NavS. They become part of the Port like anchored (non-TF) ships.

I've check this and TF can be detected by navS when docked. I also found out that recon can find TF as well but only if they are in the target base. You cannot recon a TF it has to be the base.

Thanks for testing that Chris. Doesn't make sense to me that a docked TF is considered 'at sea' rather than attached to the port like anchored ships.

But maybe it is detected by Naval Search simply because it is a task force and the game doesn't consider docking in regards to naval search.

That's what I concluded too RJ. I was just griping that the programmers could have made the docking exception since the TF is immobile.