Air War Guide

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Chris21wen
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Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

v2.5.1 based on v28 of the air war all in one place, hopefully!

I’m no super expert. I’ve not re-written the manual, all I’ve done is is collect various post together with the bare bones of how thing work giving references’ to sections in the new manual. In many instances there’s more than one appropriate section.

There’s also stuff here that isn’t in the manual but it’s how it works. This has been worked out by observation and testing by many people.

To my knowledge the manual and post are up-to-date with the exception of the red text. I don’t think that works.

IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING HERE THAT'S WRONG OR NEEDS CLARIFICATION TELL ME
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JanSako
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by JanSako »

Allied B-17's can operate offensive missions from Lvl4 airfield.
They only fly up to 'regular' range (not extended) and carry 'reduced' bomb load - what they would normally carry at extended ranges.
Unless it is a Bottlenecks change, in which case I apologize for butting in! :-)
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RangerJoe
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by RangerJoe »

Airfield Capacity (9.4.1)
Level 2 - The smallest AF from which offensive (group) missions can be carried out. All small a/c including F,
FB, DB, TB, FP and light bombers (LB) can carry out any applicable offensive missions. Offensive
ops include:
Missing a comma.

You might also want to include a Level 0 airfield:
No land based air operations. Only float aircraft and flying boats may operate here. They need Air Support from either ground units or naval vessels that have inherent air support which can only support float aircraft and flying boats.
There is something else but can you figure it out? :lol: :twisted: :lol:


Base Administration (Groups)
The minimum current level for any occupied AF is one. This current level is affected by the following ways:
• Each individual operational group adds one to the current level.
• Groups at rest or training don’t count towards this total. You might want to check this, my understanding that training units could as 1/3.
• Fragments, Chutai, Sections or flight groups also don’t count towards the total. Are you sure on this for Chutai? They are their own separate unit.
Mitigating Overstacking
Saipan has an SPS of 4. If you base an Air HQ in range, such as the XX US Bomber Cmd with its Command radius of 5,
you get a level 9 AF. Overstack to your hearts content. No admin penalty as long as the best Air HQ of the same
command as the base is within range. If it’s not the same command, the nearest HQ will add ½ its command radius to
the number of groups. At which point you will NOT have a 9 AF but a 7, still enough to operate a B-27 without
restriction but not enough to overcome overstacking.
B-27? I did not know that is in the game but the B-29 is in the game!
Air Commanders.
First a beef. There’s nothing in the manual about how Air commanders/leaders affect the game other than this. ‘The
bonuses are impacted by the leaderships rating of the commander of the HQs’ (8.1.1). A general comment about all
HQ commanders which, in my opinion is not and never has been helpful.
Players have deduced the following.
• The Air Skill rating of an Air Commander helps improve the number of aircraft that fly
• No other leader skills have any influence or bearing on air operations.
The larger the Air Skill value the better. The air skill rating obviously affects group die rolls but exactly how is not
known as the formula has never been published.
For the units and this may also apply to the HQs:
My experience is that the higher the aggression level, it is more likely that the air unit will continue to the target in face of adverse conditions, including enemy CAP. This is also affected by their morale but not necessarily their morals.
My understanding is that the Leadership and Inspiration can also affect operations by enabling pilots to get experience and skill sets quicker, get the slackers to continue to the target, and possibly help the unit cohesion.
My understanding is that the Administration is how effective the unit is in repairs so more aircraft can fly operations.

A ships operational air capability is affected by:
,
.
.
• If a carrier is in a base, CAP or strike missions are limited to 50% of it’s aircraft. If CAP is reinforced only 50%
of the remaining aircraft will be used to reinforce CAP (7.2.1.13.2)


CVEs are not penalized, nor are the ships carrying FPs or FFs to my understanding. Only CVLs and CVs or larger are affected.

Max Sorties (6.1.3 and 7.2.1.10)
This is measure of a carrier’s ability to carry out offensive missions, basically how much ordnance the carrier can carry.
Once the max sortie count reaches zero the CV needs to rearm form port or via a replenishment at sea. Max sortie
count does not restrict defensive ops, critically CAP.


Not "form port" but from a port since the carrier can not make a port. ;)
Air Transfers (7.2.3)
As I said earlier, why put an aircraft on a ship it cannot operate from?
Aircraft that can be based on a ship can always take off from it, other limitations permitting. This allows you to move
aircraft around aircraft via air transfers, essential when dealing with the vast expanse of the Pacific Ocean.
Maybe add: This allows a player to fly non-carrier capable aircraft from an aircraft carrier to a base where they will be ready to operate, less operational losses and damaged aircraft. This also allows the air units to reach a new base without putting the carrying ship(s) into as much danger since they may not be able to operate their own aircraft since non-carrier capable aircraft count 4X the stacking limit.
Effects of Ship Damage to Air Ops
• Aircraft on a ships may not fly if the ship’s combined System Damage and Floatation Damage are greater than
50. They may transfer off the ship if docked or at anchor at a base with an airfield (15.4.1.2).
• Air groups on carriers with more than 50 system or flood damage cannot receive replacements (16.2)
I also believe that any fires on board prohibit air operations. Would you really want to refuel aircraft with high octane gasoline near where there is a fire?
The smoking lamp is OUT!

You might also want to check on unloading at a base with no airfield but a port. No air operations but a way to save the aircraft and keep from having to buy back any lost air units should the ship(s) sink. Then the air units can wait for a ship to load them or an airfield to be build.

I hope that you are not insulted and that these help.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing! :o

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
:twisted: ; Julia Child
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Cheesesteak
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Cheesesteak »

good stuff!
Chris21wen wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:32 am Part 1 of the air war all in one place, hopefully! The rest on air units, aircraft, pilots will follow eventually.

I’m no super expert. I’ve not re-written the manual, all I’ve done is is collect various post together with the bare bones of how thing work giving references’ to sections in the new manual. In many instances there’s more than one appropriate section.

There’s also stuff here that isn’t in the manual but it’s how it works. This has been worked out by observation and testing by many people.

To my knowledge the manual and post are up-to-date with the exception of the red text. I don’t think that works.

IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING THAT HERE, WRONG OR NEEDS CLARIFICATION TELL ME
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
Chris21wen
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

RangerJoe wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:48 pm ....

I hope that you are not insulted and that these help.
Thanks. Some done rest later.
Chris21wen
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

More added see first post for v1.2.
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majorlee1967
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by majorlee1967 »

Thank you for your efforts in putting this together. It has really helped me understand the game much better.
Majorlee1967 Gaming since the 70's...guess that makes me an old grognard
Chris21wen
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

majorlee1967 wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:44 am Thank you for your efforts in putting this together. It has really helped me understand the game much better.
Your welcome, more to come.
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

More added see first post for v1.3.
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Kull
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Kull »

Can't recall where I picked this up, but it's a handy reference:
Level Bomber altitudes in AE.jpg
Level Bomber altitudes in AE.jpg (170.32 KiB) Viewed 4653 times
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Shellshock
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Shellshock »

Kull wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:14 pm Can't recall where I picked this up, but it's a handy reference:
It originated in this post from July 2020.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 4#p4667254

At the time Alfred was struggling to explain aircraft attack profiles in text format. So to assist, I came up with a chart. :mrgreen:
JanSako
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by JanSako »

That last line is (semi)incorrect though.
Aircraft on 100' will use STRAFE skill to fire MGs and Cannons, but LowNav or LowGr for bombs, if they carry any.
You can tell by which skill is growing after a few attacks. Anecdotally there is also a difference in a number of hits, test by using a unit of P-39 with high STR skill, which will do a lot of MG & cannon hits on ships vs a unit with high LowNav which will do noticeably less, and more bomb hits.
Does not much matter against merchies but skip-bombing DD's & such takes a bit more skill.
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Kull
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Kull »

Shellshock wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:39 pm
At the time Alfred was struggling to explain aircraft attack profiles in text format. So to assist, I came up with a chart. :mrgreen:
Nice job, I've always found it helpful!
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Kull
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Kull »

Although the guide talks to this, it's important to emphasize that Air HQs are the only headquarters in the game in which command structure matters. Here are several instances as described by the coder:

1) Calculating effective Airfield Size as it applies to Overstacking (here he replies to a player who couldn't understand why his effective value was 7):
michaelm75au wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:15 am The AF is 6.
The HQ is not of same command (ABDA) as base (SE Asia) so only 1/2 of command radius (3) applies (1).

If it had been same command as base, then total would have been 9.


2) In addition, there is a coordination impact. Specifically, air units that are within range of their assigned HQ have a much greater chance of performing a coordinated attack:
michaelm75au wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:51 am Here is a list of things that go towards determining if groups are 'grouped' together in the same raid/attack:
  • Group attack mission is similar to the raid's mission (not a TF and a base attack)
  • Sweeps, recon and search missions are not used in co-ordination
  • Escorts need to be at same altitude as raid itself and have the same target to imporve chances
  • Groups from same base have better chance to fly together; further apart group bases are, lessen the chance
  • Groups belonging to same theatre command have increased chance; groups in range of their Air Hq are further increased
  • IJA and IJN groups have a lessen chance to co-ordinate
  • Group experience and leader's AIR increases chance
  • Groups need to be within 20% of the raid's speed or time to target for the raid and group within 30 minutes to participate in raid
  • Escorts targeted to same target as bombers have a better chance than un-target escorts
3) And the specific value of that effect was increased in patch 1120:

10/11/12: 1120 - Increased air hq and group leader effect on raid coordination.
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BBfanboy
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by BBfanboy »

Kull wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:14 pm Can't recall where I picked this up, but it's a handy reference:

Level Bomber altitudes in AE.jpg
One thing is incomplete: Aircraft that can strafe and carry bombs (some fighters and all fighter-bombers and Assault bombers) when set to 100' for strafing will also drop their bombs. You can see the splash of misses in the animation and of course bomb hit animations and reports.
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Chris21wen
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

All noted. Thanks for feedback
Chris21wen
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

BBfanboy wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:14 pm
One thing is incomplete: Aircraft that can strafe and carry bombs (some fighters and all fighter-bombers and Assault bombers) when set to 100' for strafing will also drop their bombs. You can see the splash of misses in the animation and of course bomb hit animations and reports.
Now reads

'Any air unit with an attack mission or sweep may also strafe dependant upon height and a random factor.'
Chris21wen
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

RangerJoe wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:48 pm Airfield Capacity (9.4.1)
Level 2 - The smallest AF from which offensive (group) missions can be carried out. All small a/c including F,
FB, DB, TB, FP and light bombers (LB) can carry out any applicable offensive missions. Offensive
ops include:
Missing a comma.

You might also want to include a Level 0 airfield:
No land based air operations. Only float aircraft and flying boats may operate here. They need Air Support from either ground units or naval vessels that have inherent air support which can only support float aircraft and flying boats.
There is something else but can you figure it out? :lol: :twisted: :lol:
Added
Base Administration (Groups)
The minimum current level for any occupied AF is one. This current level is affected by the following ways:
• Each individual operational group adds one to the current level.
• Groups at rest or training don’t count towards this total. You might want to check this, my understanding that training units could as 1/3. Only applies to aircraft stacking not groups.
• Fragments, Chutai, Sections or flight groups also don’t count towards the total. Are you sure on this for Chutai? They are their own separate unit.Yes error. Not sure how that go in.
Mitigating Overstacking
Saipan has an SPS of 4. If you base an Air HQ in range, such as the XX US Bomber Cmd with its Command radius of 5,
you get a level 9 AF. Overstack to your hearts content. No admin penalty as long as the best Air HQ of the same
command as the base is within range. If it’s not the same command, the nearest HQ will add ½ its command radius to
the number of groups. At which point you will NOT have a 9 AF but a 7, still enough to operate a B-27 without
restriction but not enough to overcome overstacking.
B-27? I did not know that is in the game but the B-29 is in the game!
Corrected
Air Commanders.
First a beef. There’s nothing in the manual about how Air commanders/leaders affect the game other than this. ‘The
bonuses are impacted by the leaderships rating of the commander of the HQs’ (8.1.1). A general comment about all
HQ commanders which, in my opinion is not and never has been helpful.
Players have deduced the following.
• The Air Skill rating of an Air Commander helps improve the number of aircraft that fly
• No other leader skills have any influence or bearing on air operations.
The larger the Air Skill value the better. The air skill rating obviously affects group die rolls but exactly how is not
known as the formula has never been published.
For the units and this may also apply to the HQs:
My experience is that the higher the aggression level, it is more likely that the air unit will continue to the target in face of adverse conditions, including enemy CAP. This is also affected by their morale but not necessarily their morals.
My understanding is that the Leadership and Inspiration can also affect operations by enabling pilots to get experience and skill sets quicker, get the slackers to continue to the target, and possibly help the unit cohesion.
My understanding is that the Administration is how effective the unit is in repairs so more aircraft can fly operations.
I've seen no evidence to suggest any of this affects an air HQ leader.
Added agg to air unit leader with a sceptical not on morale.
Lead and insp already there?
Not sure about admin? Are you referring to HQ or group leader. For Group would have no effect. HQ possibly but need more detail?
A ships operational air capability is affected by:
,
.
.
• If a carrier is in a base, CAP or strike missions are limited to 50% of it’s aircraft. If CAP is reinforced only 50%
of the remaining aircraft will be used to reinforce CAP (7.2.1.13.2)


CVEs are not penalized, nor are the ships carrying FPs or FFs to my understanding. Only CVLs and CVs or larger are affected.
Added
Max Sorties (6.1.3 and 7.2.1.10)
This is measure of a carrier’s ability to carry out offensive missions, basically how much ordnance the carrier can carry.
Once the max sortie count reaches zero the CV needs to rearm form port or via a replenishment at sea. Max sortie
count does not restrict defensive ops, critically CAP.


Not "form port" but from a port since the carrier can not make a port. ;)
Corrected
Air Transfers (7.2.3)
As I said earlier, why put an aircraft on a ship it cannot operate from?
Aircraft that can be based on a ship can always take off from it, other limitations permitting. This allows you to move
aircraft around aircraft via air transfers, essential when dealing with the vast expanse of the Pacific Ocean.
Maybe add: This allows a player to fly non-carrier capable aircraft from an aircraft carrier to a base where they will be ready to operate, less operational losses and damaged aircraft. This also allows the air units to reach a new base without putting the carrying ship(s) into as much danger since they may not be able to operate their own aircraft since non-carrier capable aircraft count 4X the stacking limit.
[/quote]

Change completely
Effects of Ship Damage to Air Ops
• Aircraft on a ships may not fly if the ship’s combined System Damage and Floatation Damage are greater than
50. They may transfer off the ship if docked or at anchor at a base with an airfield (15.4.1.2).
• Air groups on carriers with more than 50 system or flood damage cannot receive replacements (16.2)
I also believe that any fires on board prohibit air operations. Would you really want to refuel aircraft with high octane gasoline near where there is a fire?
The smoking lamp is OUT!

You might also want to check on unloading at a base with no airfield but a port. No air operations but a way to save the aircraft and keep from having to buy back any lost air units should the ship(s) sink. Then the air units can wait for a ship to load them or an airfield to be build.

I hope that you are not insulted and that these help.
[/quote]

Add a note after a test.
Chris21wen
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Chris21wen »

Completed. PDF in first post.
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Yaab
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Re: Air War Guide

Post by Yaab »

re Combat Animations (F5 key)(7.4.2.1)

I would add also:

-fighters not catching fast bombers due to fighters inferior speed (i.e Claudes vs B-17s)
-fighters driven away by defensive fire from bombers (turrets on bombers acting as force multipliers; no defensive fire from flying patrol boats - probably a bug)
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