Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Dili

It all goes by what anyone understands by maneuverality. Since the game have at least speed and climb besides maneuverality field, it means that MVR rating in AE is a more restricted ability than usually refered in books and historical accounts where that separation is not done.

I have to agree on this one. It is hard for us who have played WITP to see some of the AE data because the WITP system is so ingrained in our heads. We ALL need to accept that AE is not a mod of WITP, it is a redesign of the system within the framework of the current engine. It has already been said that if you play AE like WITP, it wil no work. The system is just different.

To my surprise what no one has brought up is that the documented war time production of the F6F was 11,000 yet it has already been said that the Allies only get about 8,000 in AE. Now that is by far a point more worth debating

Well, we can call it a "Bulgarian constant"

ORIGINAL: vettim89

To my surprise what no one has brought up is that the documented war time production of the F6F was 11,000 yet it has already been said that the Allies only get about 8,000 in AE. Now that is by far a point more worth debating

maybe those 8000 are the ones actually "in the field" or in theater. there are always some at home for training etc. this is just a guess.

I have to agree on this one. It is hard for us who have played WITP to see some of the AE data because the WITP system is so ingrained in our heads. We ALL need to accept that AE is not a mod of WITP, it is a redesign of the system within the framework of the current engine. It has already been said that if you play AE like WITP, it wil no work. The system is just different.

I think Witp was a problem due to lack of ingformation, el cid for example included speed in his formulas for MVR in RHS and i criticized him because speed was already a field in game and that we would need to know if we weren't duplicating its influence.

ORIGINAL: vettim89
To my surprise what no one has brought up is that the documented war time production of the F6F was 11,000 yet it has already been said that the Allies only get about 8,000 in AE. Now that is by far a point more worth debating

ORIGINAL: sven6345789
maybe those 8000 are the ones actually "in the field" or in theater. there are always some at home for training etc. this is just a guess.

On top of planes held back for training, there were also planes built that hadn't gotten into the supply chain on VJ Day and a few built after the war. I met a pilot once who's job after VJ Day was flying P-40s from the factory to the scrap yard. It was easier to complete the last P-40s on the line and fly them to the junk yard than cut them up on the line.

The F6F lived on after the war in various National Guard and auxiliary roles. Most of those were -5s built in the last days of the war that never entered service before the war ended.

Because production continues to the end of the game, you will get many of those post war airframes if the game continues past August 1945.

Bill

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Elf, I am truly sorry I ever opened this can of worms....forgive me, please....
OY!!

[;)]

That's nice... I believe that RevRick is our resident expert on forgiving...he should receive some once in awhile. [;)]

I know it's an old thread but I was running a search on here.

About Hellcat roll rate - the F6F-5 was fitted with spring tabs on the alierons which helped considerably, especially at high speeds. Also it's interesting to look up the Corky Meyer article on the F6F vs. Corsair (which also mentions the spring tabs) and the test of the F6F-5 vs captured A6M5, especially in reference to the -5's max airspeed.

Also, why are some Corsair models listed as having a higher durability than the F6F? Corsair had vulnerable oil cooler and the Hellcat (almost as big as a P-47!!) was the plane responsible for Grumman being known as the Iron Works.

-88

Are recon or nightfighter versions of the hellcat and other naval aircraft carrier capable?

Of course.

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Well when I see that Japanese bombers are more maneuverable than or as maneuverable as the Hellcats . . .

Not to bring back the debate, but I am finishing up on my first read of 'Fire in the Sky'. It has really given me a much, much better understanding of how things actually worked. I would recommend it to anyone if you have not already read it, and give a big thanks to the recommendations to read it from forum posts here.

As for your argument, I now see exactly why the developers made 'maneuver' what it is now in AE. Its not the end-all-be-all of air comabt (that it was in vanilla WitP). Makes perfect sense to me now: it represents the ability of an aircraft to turn and so on. Altitude, speed, cohesion of individual elements (atleast for the Allies), dive speed, climbing speed, armor, firepower, amount of ammo, skill, surprise and so on all decided the victor in a dogfight. Not just the ability to turn.

1.  I think that pilot experience (given roughly equal aircraft)  is the end all be all in WITP.
2. That being said, better aircraft=better results in AE.  An Allied player with 'decent' pilot experience, will do quite well.  DHU (many Japanese pilots graduate from here) is no longer relevant.

 " DHU (many Japanese pilots graduate from here) is no longer relevant. "
 
What is DHU ?

Deutsche Homöopathie-Union, DHU, Germany
A homepage giving general information on homeopathy and on the company DHU.[/align] [/align] [/align]???????????????????????????????????????????????????[/align]

ORIGINAL: Flying Tiger

Deutsche Homöopathie-Union, DHU, Germany
A homepage giving general information on homeopathy and on the company DHU.[/align] [/align] [/align]???????????????????????????????????????????????????[/align]

So maybe we have discovered the major reason that Japanese pilots were relatively ill trained in later stages of the war ? They were spending time studying herbal home health care instead of take offs, landings and dogfighting skills ?

I just finished reading "The First Team", and I am in the middle of "The Barrier and the Javelin". The Americans used SBD's in a low altitude CAP role. (Intended to attack torpedo carrying Kates.)
 
Time for my daily Stupid Question(s): Is this possible in AE? (I am gonna guess "no".)
 
It was mentioned in thoe above books that the single engined SBD and Vals were surprisingly manueverable when they had no bomb onboard. Is this worked into some of the A2A code as well? (Manuever rating adjusted when fighter is attacking after ordnance deployed.)
 
 

DHU=Dot Hex University (school of flight training)