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I decided to try to redraw the maps of Red Storm campaign.
I noticed that the map heights in some places very much does not match, and then noticed that some maps does not match the scale of 1 hex = 500m

So, here's what at this moment.
I took a segment of a topographic map with the roads in the area of 40x40 km, then I drew hexgrid and scaled topomap to 1 hex = 500m
I have outlined the elevation levels and has not yet proceeded to draw the roads, forests, cities, and all of other things.
So far, only the elevation levels.


This is the area around Nordheim,
you know ? )

Here is the map in full size https://yadi.sk/i/UziMDRhij9MEe
You can check yourself as a change elevation in this region.

This large map includes the first three maps of the campaign, so that with one shot I'm killing three birds)
The elevation colors are far from the final so there is still a lot of work

Here's how to be carved out the first three maps
https://yadi.sk/i/Dr-M225Dj9MeE

tebeinteresno, hi,

Yup.. l like the look .

The more quality maps to choose from the better.

Thanks..
All the best,
Kip.

ORIGINAL: kipanderson

tebeinteresno, hi,

Yup.. l like the look .

The more quality maps to choose from the better.

Thanks..
All the best,
Kip.

Thanks!

Actually, I began to suspect some inconsistencies in the map when I decided to see a real area in Google maps.
For example
Here is a hill at SouthWest over Nordheim. This hill hides part of the Sondheim



Then I thought: "hmm, good tactical hiding place"
But I could not find this hill on the map in the game
More precisely, I have found, but he was in another place, a little further north.



Maybe it's to improve the gameplay on the map? Tactical balance?
But I decided to see how the map would look like with a very real relief.

Then I decided to check the distance and was surprised that there hex is not equal to 500 meters





Maybe my calculations wrong and I misunderstand something?

Our maps are as close to the terrain on the Google maps. To fit the hex map style, some elements get moved or adjusted for the game engine to work. Hills are set by those features deemed significant and depending on where the level cutoff falls. Distances are close as well. Your blue line above should be 2500m and both lines are not sitting in the same locations so there is delta distance error there as well.

William can talk more to the process used, but the maps in game are set to a 500m hex scale based on the data used.

Definitely do maps based on your interpretation of map data. The game was built to allow folks to customize things to their own taste.

I'm not saying that somewhere something is done badly.
Сonversely!
Playing these maps is very interesting!
And some of the landscape creates an impression that is created special for this scenario, and some hills seemed designed for fortifications. )
Just when I began to check the height and distance, I have a feeling I may do something wrong calculation?

Elevations are an art not a science on our maps. I laid the Google Earth maps on the hex grid and transferred one to the other. What I did not do was to worry about a 10mm difference in height with the color scale we used. I determined what the military significant terrain was and made sure that was put forth on the maps. What I think you are going to continue to find, as this has already been brought out in another of your threads, is that there aren't enough colors to show the different elevations.

You also get to make some artist prerogative at times. Sometimes a village doesn't cover a 500 meter area. Do you put it on the map or leave it off? Does a small elevation in height determine another elevation change or not? Those are the kinds of things you as the map maker get to decide.

My hand drawn maps won't be as accurate to the millimeter as your satphoto maps I'm sure.

Whatever you come up with I'm sure there will be those that like them. The nice thing about map making is that the different perspectives give gamers lots of choices in the end.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Elevations are an art not a science on our maps. I laid the Google Earth maps on the hex grid and transferred one to the other. What I did not do was to worry about a 10mm difference in height with the color scale we used. I determined what the military significant terrain was and made sure that was put forth on the maps. What I think you are going to continue to find, as this has already been brought out in another of your threads, is that there aren't enough colors to show the different elevations.

You also get to make some artist prerogative at times. Sometimes a village doesn't cover a 500 meter area. Do you put it on the map or leave it off? Does a small elevation in height determine another elevation change or not? Those are the kinds of things you as the map maker get to decide.

My hand drawn maps won't be as accurate to the millimeter as your satphoto maps I'm sure.

Whatever you come up with I'm sure there will be those that like them. The nice thing about map making is that the different perspectives give gamers lots of choices in the end.

Good Hunting.

MR

Сertainly in the game elevation levels and map details carry carry three parts: the gameplay, informative and visual part, and the balance between them is the very purpose of art of drawing maps.

Regarding the choice of "hills" and display the villages appear to seriously look for them on the map.
If the village is really small, I do not think it makes sense to display, although you can draw several options for residential areas, depending on the population density. Technically, it will have the same residential areas, but if in the future is entered in the grading of their size, they can be edited without any problems.

I just wanted to make a map for locals and those who have already been there someday.
Well, you know phrases like "oh, I know this hill!" or "Oh, I've been in the ravine")

Here's a preview of what we are working towards for Southern Storm - it's the map used by Cap Darwin and Rob for the Origins 2015 event. You might like it...

What you see is, from top to bottom:
- OpenStreetMap topo map of Plochingen (2015 data) with a 1989 Shell road atlas insert displaying the old trajectory of the B10 (which ran below the Fils stream for longer than today's B10)
- our 500m hex rendition of the 1989 Plochingen in 'topo' look.
- our 500m hex rendition of 1989 Plochingen in traditional hex look
IMO, it shows nicely how close we get to the real terrain and how we abstract to 500m hexes (notably the Neckar river, removal of tertiary roads, removal of ditches which aren't an obstacle to military vehicles).

Note that I'm not convinced working from GIS data results in better maps than Steve's approach of 'eyeballing' the Google maps with his military background. I do happen to be more productive starting from GIS data, and it allows for rapid prototyping of a new piece of terrain, and creating multiple looks.

William

p.s. and, yes, I've used one of my hex maps for navigation during my past holidays. Didn't actually have to use it, since I accidentally memorized the terrain while creating the map.

Really digging how those hills are easier to see; sometimes I can mistake elevations if I'm playing in a bad light [:D]

ORIGINAL: W1ll14m

Here's a preview of what we are working towards for Southern Storm - it's the map used by Cap Darwin and Rob for the Origins 2015 event. You might like it...

What you see is, from top to bottom:
- OpenStreetMap topo map of Plochingen (2015 data) with a 1989 Shell road atlas insert displaying the old trajectory of the B10 (which ran below the Fils stream for longer than today's B10)
- our 500m hex rendition of the 1989 Plochingen in 'topo' look.
- our 500m hex rendition of 1989 Plochingen in traditional hex look
IMO, it shows nicely how close we get to the real terrain and how we abstract to 500m hexes (notably the Neckar river, removal of tertiary roads, removal of ditches which aren't an obstacle to military vehicles).

Note that I'm not convinced working from GIS data results in better maps than Steve's approach of 'eyeballing' the Google maps with his military background. I do happen to be more productive starting from GIS data, and it allows for rapid prototyping of a new piece of terrain, and creating multiple looks.

William

p.s. and, yes, I've used one of my hex maps for navigation during my past holidays. Didn't actually have to use it, since I accidentally memorized the terrain while creating the map.

WHOA! Awesome and very clean work [&o]
Great job!
Topo map so clean and easy to understand.
but it seems to me, and there does not appear the elevation levels used in the game?
Will the choice of which map to display? I think it's pretty convenient to see the battlefield on the "photorealistic map" and planning on topographic (with all the navigation arrows and notes).

So now I have a couple questions:
— How about Industrial areas?In the north west of the Plochingen you can see the industrial zone, perhaps even a small port. It may be added in the future such additional graduation? For such zones are sometimes strategically important, and shelter in these areas are a little different from the shelter in residential areas.
— Whether you choose the width of the river? Some rivers are very significant in width, and some are so narrow that tanks or other vehicle are moving in the ford.
Just when I looked at the card and checks prior to the reality, it seems that some of the rivers on the map is too wide.
I understand that, technically, the game has only one type of the river, and one type of bridges, but sometimes I thought that it would be more realistic if the added gradation width of the rivers. Just imagine:
- Narrow streams can pass without building bridges, but with a fairly large delay in the movement, in this case the presence of the bridge on the road passing through the stream is not so important, but if it is not destroyed, the army can drive on the road without delay.
- Wider river passes just over the bridge and require guidance pontoon bridges or amphibious vehicles.
- Very wide river passes only with a very long bridge (more 1-2 Hex)
Also, you can add types of bridges: a small wood, stone, huge steel (almost impossible to repair them or maybe for a long time between battles)
I realize that everything I propose adding lines of code in the engine, but in this case, you can add some fun strategy game. (though perhaps you have all of this going to do)
— Well, I was still interested in shading of elevation levels. Since the main action takes in the Northern Hemisphere, it would be logical to see the lighting on the south side.
I understand that the current shading fron NW is essential for the style of the game, but I'll try to cover all the SW.
— Is there somewhere online version of the atlas roads for 1989?

Anyway. Great job guys!

William,

That OSM map looks great - how did you get it to display like that?

I've used the Hesse shapefile data so far.

I've just tried using the Hesse OSM data and it seems to take forever to build anything and there's a million 'layers' in the data, none of which seem to come out like that [&:]

Cheers,

B

Update: Found it! Add the Tile Map Scale plugin and add the osm_landscape.xml dataset.

Here is another elevation coloring with 200-900m



full map https://yadi.sk/i/Gw967mjhjAbc2

Here the question:
With the release of Southern Storm, will Red Storm support levels 1-10th elevation levels too?
Or it will remain as now?

The current Red Storm engine supports 10 levels now in the values editor. You should be good to go.

That looks amazing. You are damn talented! [&o]

Here is drawn a main roads (minor road later)



And some test of topographic map
contour lines are made and based on current hexmap (that she was based on a real map)



Full maps you can see here https://yadi.sk/i/fZMOd7q6jDwtn
and here topomap https://yadi.sk/i/D0sUyqkujDwve

ORIGINAL: tebeinteresno

Here is drawn a main roads (minor road later)

And some test of topographic map
contour lines are made and based on current hexmap (that she was based on a real map)

Full maps you can see here https://yadi.sk/i/fZMOd7q6jDwtn
and here topomap https://yadi.sk/i/D0sUyqkujDwve

Looking good! Which area is this?
Does the area have water ways? They cause me the most pain (having to shift towns and roads in order to make them align with hex edges).

William